strength libram?

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strength libram?

Postby Harmacy » Mon Mar 08, 2010 11:41 pm

Armory - Wow-Heroes if I'm saved in other gear (I swap out shield and trinket when I do heroics and stuff, my "srs bsns" gear is Neverending Winter with +18 stam and Glyph/Key)

This week I get the pleasure of going into ICC 10 on my tank alt again (I've skipped it the past few weeks due to time constraints, did manage a quick Marrowgar run the other day - got a new holy weapon, wewt). Last time I tanked Festergut, I was having major trouble holding aggro from the off-tank, so this time around I want to be better prepared. My understanding is, this is both a max EH fight and a max threat/damage fight, so if I want to maximize both I should sacrifice avoidance, right?

I'm just wondering if it would be worth losing the 200 dodge rating for 200 strength, to help with threat (and some extra DPS when I'm OTing and flip off RF). I know avoidance isn't particularly important in ICC, but 200 dodge is what, 2.5-3%? Seems like a significant amount even if it's based off of RNG. I wasn't having any problems with going squish, in fact the healers commented that I was much easier to heal than the other tank (who was wearing dual avoidance trinkets for god knows what reason).

Would it be worth using the Str libram on this fight, or should I stick to the dodge one even if it's not strictly EH? Really it's the only solution I can come up with, besides eating strength food rather than agility food like usual.

What else can I do to maximize my EH and threat (but mostly EH, only time I've had threat issues in recent memory was on Uncle Fester) in my current gear? I'm planning on buying the Cat chest next (20/95 so far, might be a while), and am saving up Saronites for the crafted legs (talk about a huge up over the crappy T9 legs).

edit: One more question... would it help to spec out of optionals like Seal of Command (nice for heroics or trash, but doesn't really help me much as a raider) and Pursuit of Justice (I could grab the Tuskarr's boot enchant instead) and put them into Conviction? I'd gain 3% crit which would be a noticeable amount of threat.

I suppose tweaking my spec is an option if the libram swap is a bad idea.
Harmacy
 
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Re: strength libram?

Postby vegardhv » Tue Mar 09, 2010 1:03 am

Harmacy wrote:
This week I get the pleasure of going into ICC 10 on my tank alt again (I've skipped it the past few weeks due to time constraints, did manage a quick Marrowgar run the other day - got a new holy weapon, wewt). Last time I tanked Festergut, I was having major trouble holding aggro from the off-tank, so this time around I want to be better prepared. My understanding is, this is both a max EH fight and a max threat/damage fight, so if I want to maximize both I should sacrifice avoidance, right?

I'm just wondering if it would be worth losing the 200 dodge rating for 200 strength, to help with threat (and some extra DPS when I'm OTing and flip off RF). I know avoidance isn't particularly important in ICC, but 200 dodge is what, 2.5-3%? Seems like a significant amount even if it's based off of RNG. I wasn't having any problems with going squish, in fact the healers commented that I was much easier to heal than the other tank (who was wearing dual avoidance trinkets for god knows what reason).


On this fight first tank takes over from second tank when second tank is doing 80-90 % more damage/threat than usual, so the first tank will have threat problems there no matter what, UNLESS somebody (you perhaps) helps out with hand of salvation, OR the second tank holds back on his rotation. This is of course if you're doing the fight the standard way, taunting back and forth between tanks when tanks have 8 or 9 stacks of Gastric Bloat.

So IMO, the str libram is nice, but not a must for this fight. Though on our first few attempts, we had major problems making the enrage timer, and tanks dying wasn't a major concern, so I was wearing the str libram to hopefully make the fight a few seconds shorter and help with the enrage.
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Re: strength libram?

Postby Vorianloken » Tue Mar 09, 2010 1:21 am

I have the mace from marrowgar10 enchanted with accuracy which I use when I'm taking the hits.

Once I have to switch though, I swap to Bloodvenom Blade (saurfang25 slow dps sword) enchanted with berserking, pop wings and salv myself and go to town.

And yes I do use the str libram. Havn't used the dodge libram since like the 3-4 weeks into 3.2

To maximize your EH, stam gems all over with armor enchants where possible. Use dual armor trinkets or a stam/armor trinket combo.
Vorianloken - 80 Prot/Ret || Ajeet - 80 Frost Tank/Unholy DPS || Nunnaly - 80 Cat/Tree Druid || Bulveye - 74 Protection Warrior || Sherana - 80 Combat Rogue || Shadallas - 40 Demo Warlock

US-Medivh Power! 7th April 2010 - The day when Dual-Wield Frost Tanking was assassinated. R.I.P my dear friend.
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Re: strength libram?

Postby Vorianloken » Tue Mar 09, 2010 1:23 am

vegardhv wrote:
Harmacy wrote:
This week I get the pleasure of going into ICC 10 on my tank alt again (I've skipped it the past few weeks due to time constraints, did manage a quick Marrowgar run the other day - got a new holy weapon, wewt). Last time I tanked Festergut, I was having major trouble holding aggro from the off-tank, so this time around I want to be better prepared. My understanding is, this is both a max EH fight and a max threat/damage fight, so if I want to maximize both I should sacrifice avoidance, right?

I'm just wondering if it would be worth losing the 200 dodge rating for 200 strength, to help with threat (and some extra DPS when I'm OTing and flip off RF). I know avoidance isn't particularly important in ICC, but 200 dodge is what, 2.5-3%? Seems like a significant amount even if it's based off of RNG. I wasn't having any problems with going squish, in fact the healers commented that I was much easier to heal than the other tank (who was wearing dual avoidance trinkets for god knows what reason).


On this fight first tank takes over from second tank when second tank is doing 80-90 % more damage/threat than usual, so the first tank will have threat problems there no matter what, UNLESS somebody (you perhaps) helps out with hand of salvation, OR the second tank holds back on his rotation. This is of course if you're doing the fight the standard way, taunting back and forth between tanks when tanks have 8 or 9 stacks of Gastric Bloat.

So IMO, the str libram is nice, but not a must for this fight. Though on our first few attempts, we had major problems making the enrage timer, and tanks dying wasn't a major concern, so I was wearing the str libram to hopefully make the fight a few seconds shorter and help with the enrage.


If it's a pally tank, they should take RF off.
If it's a bear then HoP/salv them if possible but it's not necessary. I've tanked it with a bear tank going second and not had a problem.
If it's a DK tank then they should just switch to Blood Presence.
If it's a warrior then I got no idea. Switching stances negates too many abilities but I am no expert.
Vorianloken - 80 Prot/Ret || Ajeet - 80 Frost Tank/Unholy DPS || Nunnaly - 80 Cat/Tree Druid || Bulveye - 74 Protection Warrior || Sherana - 80 Combat Rogue || Shadallas - 40 Demo Warlock

US-Medivh Power! 7th April 2010 - The day when Dual-Wield Frost Tanking was assassinated. R.I.P my dear friend.
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Location: Los Angeles, US

Re: strength libram?

Postby Harmacy » Tue Mar 09, 2010 2:14 am

Vorianloken wrote:I have the mace from marrowgar10 enchanted with accuracy which I use when I'm taking the hits.

Once I have to switch though, I swap to Bloodvenom Blade (saurfang25 slow dps sword) enchanted with berserking, pop wings and salv myself and go to town.

And yes I do use the str libram. Havn't used the dodge libram since like the 3-4 weeks into 3.2


Yeah, I don't have the luxury of different weapons to swap in and out (my only weapons are the sword from ToC 10 normal, and the crappy block axe from one of the new heroics). Here's to hoping Marrowgar likes me this week.

You never use the dodge libram? That strikes me as really strange. I understand avoidance is nothing to stack, but on fights where you don't have threat problems shouldn't you be trying to maximize your survival? 200 dodge contributes a lot more to your survival than 200 strength would - avoidance is nowhere as good as EH, but is way way ahead of block value. I dunno.

On this fight first tank takes over from second tank when second tank is doing 80-90 % more damage/threat than usual, so the first tank will have threat problems there no matter what, UNLESS somebody (you perhaps) helps out with hand of salvation, OR the second tank holds back on his rotation. This is of course if you're doing the fight the standard way, taunting back and forth between tanks when tanks have 8 or 9 stacks of Gastric Bloat.

So IMO, the str libram is nice, but not a must for this fight. Though on our first few attempts, we had major problems making the enrage timer, and tanks dying wasn't a major concern, so I was wearing the str libram to hopefully make the fight a few seconds shorter and help with the enrage.


Yeah I threw on HoSalv and it bought me 15 seconds or so before he was pounding me on Omen again. I guess it could be a case of L2P (or learn to watch aggro) on his part - but the more aggro I can put out, the more DPS the OT can do, the quicker the boss goes down.
Harmacy
 
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Re: strength libram?

Postby Vorianloken » Tue Mar 09, 2010 5:24 am

Harmacy wrote:
Vorianloken wrote:I have the mace from marrowgar10 enchanted with accuracy which I use when I'm taking the hits.

Once I have to switch though, I swap to Bloodvenom Blade (saurfang25 slow dps sword) enchanted with berserking, pop wings and salv myself and go to town.

And yes I do use the str libram. Havn't used the dodge libram since like the 3-4 weeks into 3.2


Yeah, I don't have the luxury of different weapons to swap in and out (my only weapons are the sword from ToC 10 normal, and the crappy block axe from one of the new heroics). Here's to hoping Marrowgar likes me this week.

You never use the dodge libram? That strikes me as really strange. I understand avoidance is nothing to stack, but on fights where you don't have threat problems shouldn't you be trying to maximize your survival? 200 dodge contributes a lot more to your survival than 200 strength would - avoidance is nowhere as good as EH, but is way way ahead of block value. I dunno.


Suggestion would be to run ToC raids if you can and pick up a slow weapon from there if possible. I was lucky with Bloodvenom because there were 2 rogues in the raid who already had one and no frost dw dk's :) I was the only one to roll it.

I outgear, relatively speaking, most of the fights in ICC-10 at the moment (from personal experience as I have yet to see BQL or PP - I was the abom tank last night and was the first time on the fight - or the frost-wing bosses) and my health hasn't dipped below 60% since I started running ICC10, except for last night on princes10 but I got through it rotating cooldowns. Part of it all has to do with some great healers but it's still a personal choice to add as much dps I can to a fight as I pass the minimum EH required for it.
Vorianloken - 80 Prot/Ret || Ajeet - 80 Frost Tank/Unholy DPS || Nunnaly - 80 Cat/Tree Druid || Bulveye - 74 Protection Warrior || Sherana - 80 Combat Rogue || Shadallas - 40 Demo Warlock

US-Medivh Power! 7th April 2010 - The day when Dual-Wield Frost Tanking was assassinated. R.I.P my dear friend.
Vorianloken
 
Posts: 498
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Location: Los Angeles, US

Re: strength libram?

Postby Harmacy » Tue Mar 09, 2010 5:57 am

Vorianloken wrote:Suggestion would be to run ToC raids if you can and pick up a slow weapon from there if possible. I was lucky with Bloodvenom because there were 2 rogues in the raid who already had one and no frost dw dk's :) I was the only one to roll it.

I outgear, relatively speaking, most of the fights in ICC-10 at the moment (from personal experience as I have yet to see BQL or PP - I was the abom tank last night and was the first time on the fight - or the frost-wing bosses) and my health hasn't dipped below 60% since I started running ICC10, except for last night on princes10 but I got through it rotating cooldowns. Part of it all has to do with some great healers but it's still a personal choice to add as much dps I can to a fight as I pass the minimum EH required for it.


Ew, ToC. I could go for ToGC 10 on this toon, try to get a sexy weapon and ring (and necklace, and boots) but I'd rather do ICC 10 tbh. I was lucky to get into a ICC 25 pug a few hours ago, apparently it's the same core of people running every week and I was extended a permanent invite - even though it's just spending an hour or so farming the first wing, I may end up getting that sword yet :-)

And I guess if it works for you, that's good - but I'm not replacing the dodge libram for good. 200 dodge is a significant amount even if avoidance is relatively weak, and with the exception of a few DPS race fights where your survival is not in danger (like BQ or what have you), I'd rather gear towards survival than threat or DPS.
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Re: strength libram?

Postby Vorianloken » Tue Mar 09, 2010 6:40 am

Harmacy wrote:
Vorianloken wrote:Suggestion would be to run ToC raids if you can and pick up a slow weapon from there if possible. I was lucky with Bloodvenom because there were 2 rogues in the raid who already had one and no frost dw dk's :) I was the only one to roll it.

I outgear, relatively speaking, most of the fights in ICC-10 at the moment (from personal experience as I have yet to see BQL or PP - I was the abom tank last night and was the first time on the fight - or the frost-wing bosses) and my health hasn't dipped below 60% since I started running ICC10, except for last night on princes10 but I got through it rotating cooldowns. Part of it all has to do with some great healers but it's still a personal choice to add as much dps I can to a fight as I pass the minimum EH required for it.


Ew, ToC. I could go for ToGC 10 on this toon, try to get a sexy weapon and ring (and necklace, and boots) but I'd rather do ICC 10 tbh. I was lucky to get into a ICC 25 pug a few hours ago, apparently it's the same core of people running every week and I was extended a permanent invite - even though it's just spending an hour or so farming the first wing, I may end up getting that sword yet :-)

And I guess if it works for you, that's good - but I'm not replacing the dodge libram for good. 200 dodge is a significant amount even if avoidance is relatively weak, and with the exception of a few DPS race fights where your survival is not in danger (like BQ or what have you), I'd rather gear towards survival than threat or DPS.

Yeah like I said, it's a personal choice and YMMV. I may find myself using it in the first raids in cataclysm or I may not /shrug. I'm not going to be seeing hardmodes anytime soon (read level 85 decked out in Tier11) or even frost-wing bosses in 10 normal, so at the level of raiding I am doing I find myself easily past the minimum EH threshold and thus go for the threat/dps from the ret libram.
Vorianloken - 80 Prot/Ret || Ajeet - 80 Frost Tank/Unholy DPS || Nunnaly - 80 Cat/Tree Druid || Bulveye - 74 Protection Warrior || Sherana - 80 Combat Rogue || Shadallas - 40 Demo Warlock

US-Medivh Power! 7th April 2010 - The day when Dual-Wield Frost Tanking was assassinated. R.I.P my dear friend.
Vorianloken
 
Posts: 498
Joined: Tue Nov 10, 2009 1:56 pm
Location: Los Angeles, US


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