Remove Advertisements

trinket discussion

Get help with your character's gear

Moderators: Fridmarr, Worldie, Aergis, Sabindeus, majiben, lythac, Digren

trinket discussion

Postby lucem » Mon Mar 01, 2010 6:15 pm

so from i have seen with the other tanks running ICC with me people are preffering to go with dual stamina trinkets.
I honestly dont like to do this. I have at my disposal BH and brewfest trinket. But i still prefer to go BH with the glyph, and possibly change on a magic damage encounter.

but what is best going into ICC, stam stam, stam armour, or some avoidance like icks, fervor or onyxias?

I dont like to go in with avoidance trinkets, what is the general concensus? i still like the BH over the brewfest due to the proc, and i like the on use effect of the glyph. Ive been thinking about replacing BH with the key. But i dont like the on use.

So what do you guys use, and in which fights do you change trinkets and to which?
User avatar
lucem
 
Posts: 38
Joined: Tue Jan 19, 2010 10:52 am

Re: trinket discussion

Postby Fetzie » Mon Mar 01, 2010 7:16 pm

I use the frost emblem trinket and my juggernaut's vitality on stuff when I am unsure if it can kill me or not (pretty much everything when progress raiding) and big magical hitters (like sindragosa). I swap in glyph of indomitablilty when I know there is some big mele swings incoming (--> festergut with three stacks is a prime example), my darkmoon card when I need some DPS (I had DMC greatness and the glyph equipped at lana'thel, we only just managed to scrape past the beserk timer today along with some EXTREMELY low hp wipes (8600 hp despawn) so I feel this setup is good).

Avoidance trinkets are something I have quite a few of, but hardly ever use.
Fetzie | Protection Paladin | EU-Kazzak
Author of the TankSpot Protection Paladin Guide
Image
Sagara wrote:You see, you need to *spread* the bun before you insert the hot dog.

bldavis wrote:we are trying to extend it as long as we can...it just never seems to last very long
User avatar
Fetzie
 
Posts: 2172
Joined: Sat Feb 07, 2009 9:43 am
Location: Karlsruhe, Germany

Re: trinket discussion

Postby Folstar » Mon Mar 01, 2010 11:23 pm

I try to switch things up for different scenarios-

New boss: stam / stam
Magic heavy fight: stam / stam
Magic/Melee mix: stam / stam
Kiting: stam / stam
Trash: stam / dps
100% melee fight: they don't exist, but if they did- stam / stam

It keeps things fresh that way. Maybe in ICC I'll eventually get a trinket that is better then 192 Stamina for the second slot, but I'm guessing if I do it'll be 228 stamina :)
User avatar
Folstar
 
Posts: 119
Joined: Sun Feb 08, 2009 10:10 pm

Re: trinket discussion

Postby Khayne » Tue Mar 02, 2010 2:58 am

I use Juggers+organ as "basic" set. For queen MT'ing and festergut i run double armor, for most others i use that stam+armor, Occasionally going for double stam if my role/fight warrants it.
Image
Khayne
 
Posts: 800
Joined: Tue Oct 30, 2007 11:48 pm
Location: Finland

Re: trinket discussion

Postby Vorianloken » Wed Mar 03, 2010 2:05 am

lucem wrote:so from i have seen with the other tanks running ICC with me people are preffering to go with dual stamina trinkets.
I honestly dont like to do this. I have at my disposal BH and brewfest trinket. But i still prefer to go BH with the glyph, and possibly change on a magic damage encounter.

but what is best going into ICC, stam stam, stam armour, or some avoidance like icks, fervor or onyxias?

I dont like to go in with avoidance trinkets, what is the general concensus? i still like the BH over the brewfest due to the proc, and i like the on use effect of the glyph. Ive been thinking about replacing BH with the key. But i dont like the on use.

So what do you guys use, and in which fights do you change trinkets and to which?


first time going in on a boss? stam/stam

after that it just depends on the type of fight. stam/armor is common for physical heavy fights from what I have read - marrowgar/queen/saurfang and some people even go armor/armor for these fights.

fights like deathwhisper it's better to use stam/stam because of the magic damage.

avoidance trinkets don't really see much use in ICC.
Vorianloken - 80 Prot/Ret || Ajeet - 80 Frost Tank/Unholy DPS || Nunnaly - 80 Cat/Tree Druid || Bulveye - 74 Protection Warrior || Sherana - 80 Combat Rogue || Shadallas - 40 Demo Warlock

US-Medivh Power! 7th April 2010 - The day when Dual-Wield Frost Tanking was assassinated. R.I.P my dear friend.
Vorianloken
 
Posts: 498
Joined: Tue Nov 10, 2009 1:56 pm
Location: Los Angeles, US

Re: trinket discussion

Postby bldavis » Wed Mar 03, 2010 9:39 am

just like vorian said

if its oyur first time on a boss, stam/stam

magic heavy boss stam/stam
melee heavy boss stam/armor

I do stam/stam for DW
but do stam/armor for Marrow, Gunship, and Suarfang
Image

Brekkie:Tanks are like shitty DPS. And healers are like REALLY distracted DPS
Amirya:Why yes, your penis is longer than his because you hit 30k dps in the first 10 seconds. But guess what? That raid boss has a dick bigger than your ego.
Flex:I don't make mistakes. I execute carefully planned strategic group wipes.
Levie:(in /g) It's weird, I have a collar and I dont know where I got it from, Worgen are kinky!
Levie:Drunk Lev goes and does what he pleases just to annoy sober Lev.
Sagara:You see, you need to *spread* the bun before you insert the hot dog.
User avatar
bldavis
 
Posts: 7347
Joined: Mon Sep 07, 2009 12:04 pm
Location: Searching for myself. If i get back before I return, please have me stop and wait for myself.

Re: trinket discussion

Postby fudomyou » Wed Mar 03, 2010 10:41 am

I wear stam/armor for: Marrowgar, Blood Queen, Saurfang Jr., Festergut, Blood Princes (if I'm tanking two princes, IE 10-man).
I wear stam/str for: Trash, Deathwhisper, Dreamwalker, Rotface slime kiting, Gunship.
I wear stam/stam for: Sindragosa, Putricide, Blood Princes 25.
User avatar
fudomyou
Maintankadonor
 
Posts: 680
Joined: Tue Sep 18, 2007 9:14 am

Re: trinket discussion

Postby jathitimus » Sat Mar 06, 2010 4:08 am

I would run stam/stam to learn the fights and stam/threat once you got them down. If at anytime I think I am in danger of dieing I want stam/stam. If I am not in danger of dieing I try to pump out as much dps as I can while remaining safe from death. Some people like to work on reducing incoming damage once they feel safe they go with armor or dodge.

The way I see it, if healers were able to keep me alive when we learned it and I was taking X ammount of damage, then they can heal me later when I am still taking X ammount of damage. So rather than trying to reduce X, I try to increas Y (threat). Your milage may vary depending on the healers you run with and if your raid tries to sub in dps for healers after you learn a fight.
"Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so." - Douglas Adams
User avatar
jathitimus
 
Posts: 95
Joined: Wed Dec 17, 2008 12:46 am

Re: trinket discussion

Postby Wrathy » Sat Mar 06, 2010 4:15 pm

Folstar wrote:100% melee fight: they don't exist, but if they did- stam / stam


I have to disagree with this statement completely. Most fights in ICC are above the 80% physical threashold. Stam / armor trinkets provide a great deal of effective health and the availablity of an armor trinket makes the combo easy for any tank.
Dakiros wrote:Hear that sound? Its Wrathy breaking Wowhead and Wordpress while he quickly comes up with the Rival set.

Avenging Wrathy - A Protection Paladin Blog
Wrathy's Guide to Gear Sets

Image
Wrathy
Maintankadonor
 
Posts: 548
Joined: Sat Feb 28, 2009 4:17 pm

Re: trinket discussion

Postby Folstar » Sat Mar 06, 2010 10:48 pm

Wrathy wrote:
Folstar wrote:100% melee fight: they don't exist, but if they did- stam / stam


I have to disagree with this statement completely. Most fights in ICC are above the 80% physical threashold. Stam / armor trinkets provide a great deal of effective health and the availablity of an armor trinket makes the combo easy for any tank.


I have to disagree with your statement completely. "Above 80%" and "100%" are not the same thing (I even double checked on wikipedia and consulted with my accountant) so disagreeing with me by saying something different is no good. I did, however, have a line saying "Melee heavy fights" which is probably closer to 80%, so lets talk about those...

According to the EH calculator I just googled my "AC equal to 1 Stamina" is about 10, which sounds about right from what I've read on these forums. NUMBERS!

192 STA trinket = 1920 Armor + whatever clickie
1792 Armor EoT trinket = 179.2 STA + solid avoidance clickie
1890 Armor icc10 trinket = 189 STA + crap

That might be (definitely is) oversimplified, but it gets the general gist across- even at 100% physical damage the armor trinket numbers are lower. Those armor trinkets become even less desirable as the amount of magic damage increases, and at 20% magic damage aren't even close enough for their better clickies/stupidstackingthingie to make them worth it.

If you don't have the Toc25 STA trinket then chances are STA/ARMOR becomes your best option- which is fine, great, and cool, but does not run contrary to anything I said in my first post (where I did have the trinket). Personally I keep missing our icc25 raids and have been living it up in icc10 with STA/DPS because bosses are either laughably easy or to hard for our flipper fisted dps to manage not killing themselves.
User avatar
Folstar
 
Posts: 119
Joined: Sun Feb 08, 2009 10:10 pm

Re: trinket discussion

Postby bashef » Sun Mar 07, 2010 7:55 am

Might I suggest you read one of the more interesting topics on these boards in recent times before you so readily dismiss what Wrathy's saying?
Image
bashef
 
Posts: 60
Joined: Thu Mar 26, 2009 12:04 pm

Re: trinket discussion

Postby Wrathy » Sun Mar 07, 2010 6:37 pm

Folstar wrote:According to the EH calculator I just googled my "AC equal to 1 Stamina" is about 10, which sounds about right from what I've read on these forums. NUMBERS!

192 STA trinket = 1920 Armor + whatever clickie
1792 Armor EoT trinket = 179.2 STA + solid avoidance clickie
1890 Armor icc10 trinket = 189 STA + crap

That might be (definitely is) oversimplified, but it gets the general gist across- even at 100% physical damage the armor trinket numbers are lower. Those armor trinkets become even less desirable as the amount of magic damage increases, and at 20% magic damage aren't even close enough for their better clickies/stupidstackingthingie to make them worth it.


While I understand your argument, there are a few things which have been extensively discussed on these boards which will modify your numbers slightly. At current gear levels of tanks, 11 armor is equal to 1 stamina. Even though this lessens my value of effective health a very small amount, it is still more beneficial to use the correct values.

If you are looking for more math behind this theory beyond some guilds "effective health calculator" and something that is failsafe and has been peer reviewed quite a bit, by both Maintankadins and quite a few EJ theorycrafters who came over to have this very discussion, you can find the calcs here.

Also, the point of armor versus stamina is to understand what happens when a tank takes burst damage. We have had plenty of pages of discussion on this fact, the purpose and value of armor, and why an armor trinket is valuable. While you may have lost a few points of stamina, you are gaining damage mitigation. In addition, the Organs equip effect is only icing on the cake, you should be wearing it purely for the mitigation value. If the jusitification for it is that you have on use effects, if you equip dual juggies/satrinas you have completely lost the second on use effect because they share a cd.

Finally, if you look at some parses, you will see that there are 100% physical damage fights, which goes against what you said on your first post. DBS is a pure physical fight. Marrowgar is a pure physical fight if you are doing your job correctly, Rotface MT is a pure physical fight. These facts aside, it has still been detailed at great lengths that the tanking community values armor quite a bit. While yes I agree that if you are one of the few privileged to have every tanking trinket in the game, dual stam trinkets are very powerful, that should not say that an armor/stam combo is a poor decision, and in fact is something which most of the tanks on these boards in end game guilds employ on specific fights.
Dakiros wrote:Hear that sound? Its Wrathy breaking Wowhead and Wordpress while he quickly comes up with the Rival set.

Avenging Wrathy - A Protection Paladin Blog
Wrathy's Guide to Gear Sets

Image
Wrathy
Maintankadonor
 
Posts: 548
Joined: Sat Feb 28, 2009 4:17 pm

Re: trinket discussion

Postby Meloree » Mon Mar 08, 2010 12:59 am

Stamina is always more pure EH. It's never actually a bad choice.

Armor trinkets, however, are extremely powerful when you exceed bare minimum EH thresholds - and even in hardmodes thus far it's very difficult to fail to exceed the EH minimums in ICC. Damage patterns have changed, bosses don't generally kill tanks with burst - but throughput damage is much much higher. There's actually a benefit to be had from reducing throughput damage in a nice predictable way.

I wear dual-stam on 3 fights in ICC25: Deathwhisper and Sindragosa hardmodes, and Arthas normal (and soon to be hardmode). Arthas rewards stamina because of Soul Reaper, in my experience. The extra 2500 hp makes a noticeable difference. Deathwhisper and Sindragosa reward frost resist and massive healthpools. Otherwise, it's stam/armor. If I had a 2nd armor trinket, it would see a lot of use - BQL, Saurfang, Putricide, Festergut, Marrowgar, I'd happily go dual-armor at all of them.

I'll admit I'm a convert, I overlooked armor trinkets for a long time, despite being a rabid fan of bonus-armor on gear. But you would be remiss not to consider the option.
Meloree
Maintankadonor
 
Posts: 1420
Joined: Wed Mar 12, 2008 10:15 am

Re: trinket discussion

Postby Barathorn » Mon Mar 08, 2010 2:55 am

In fairness it does come down to wha level of progression you are running at, what drops you have been blessed with and whether you are 10 or 25 man raiding.

For the 'majority' of 10 man raiders at a reasonable gear level starting ICC10 it is perfectly reasonable to expect 46k health upwards and around 34k armor achieved by the 1 stamina trinket and armor trinket approach. For magic heavy fights - Deathwhisper and stamina intensive fights ie - Lich King you just switch out what you don't need for the fight and replace with what you do.

Armor for physical fights is not to be undervalued!!!

Barathorn
Sabindeus wrote:I feel like I should get a t-shirt made for me that says "Not Socially Awkward, Just Fat".

Brekkie wrote:The world will always need people to dig ditches.
User avatar
Barathorn
Moderator
 
Posts: 7100
Joined: Thu Jul 05, 2007 1:08 am
Location: Hitting Panda's over the head with a cricket bat shouting Get Orf My Lawn!

Re: trinket discussion

Postby Talderas » Mon Mar 08, 2010 1:10 pm

Barathorn wrote:In fairness it does come down to wha level of progression you are running at, what drops you have been blessed with and whether you are 10 or 25 man raiding.

For the 'majority' of 10 man raiders at a reasonable gear level starting ICC10 it is perfectly reasonable to expect 46k health upwards and around 34k armor achieved by the 1 stamina trinket and armor trinket approach. For magic heavy fights - Deathwhisper and stamina intensive fights ie - Lich King you just switch out what you don't need for the fight and replace with what you do.

Armor for physical fights is not to be undervalued!!!

Barathorn


46k buffed?

Otherwise I'm a sad panda. I have an average iLvl of 257 and I only have 43.4k hp and 32.4k armor unbuffed using stam/armor trinket.
Vanifae wrote:Let it be known that on the morning of the 25th of March in the year of our Lord 2010, I agree with Minnerva.
User avatar
Talderas
 
Posts: 1296
Joined: Mon Jan 04, 2010 10:40 am
Location: BRbashi

Next

Return to Gear Discussions and Advice

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 1 guest

cron

Remove Advertisements

Who is online

In total there are 2 users online :: 1 registered, 0 hidden and 1 guest (based on users active over the past 5 minutes)
Most users ever online was 380 on Tue Oct 14, 2008 6:28 pm

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 1 guest