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Threat issues

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Re: Threat issues

Postby Kisko » Fri Feb 19, 2010 1:40 pm

Anch wrote:I used to see at least 8-9k Tps on omen and now I'm struggling to even hit a stable 7k Tps.
Now for the past two weeks I am in the 6-8k range which is why this is such a problem. Even switching back to my old gear just to test it out its still low. I have not changed my spec or glyphs either. It's driving me insane I don't know what it is and this is with perfect rotation on bosses where you just have to pretty much stand still.

And just like you mentioned now that people are gearing up in ICC it's becoming even harder. Especially since I have been extremely unlucky with drops in both ICC10 and ICC25. Do you think maybe once I snag my 2PC T10 bonus that it will help cushion out this loss?


I'm not aware of any ninja nerfs to paladins in terms of threat generation, especially that big - like 9k to 7k, which is 20% (though you can never be sure with blizz), so I don't know why it was better for you before. Could it be that your latency got worse lately and your rotation is loose now?

But anyway, 6-8k tps atm is kinda low. I'm starting to believe that weapon is really holding you back.

Here is my advices, which might be helpful for you, or might be not:

1. Run ICC10 every week until you get that weapon, I noticed that you missed about half since ICC release.
A lot of good pugs at A side of Mannoroth, I'm not sure how it goes on H side. You don't need good pug to kill 1st boss of course.

2. Expertise to soft-cap or better (26+ with SoV activated), Ceciliana is at 20 now. You only need one extra piece with expertise to cover this. Badge helm works for me so far :)

3. Libram of Valiance, unless it's progression fight. 200STR makes difference.

4. I like Glyph of Righteous Defense over Judgement. At least you will never miss a taunt/tank-swap, and that's a good chunk of damage too.

5. Make sure you extracting maximum threat from your opening sequence. Taunt, AS while running to boss. Conc while turning/moving him and hammer goes first. Usual rotation after.

HTH.
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Re: Threat issues

Postby Kelaan » Fri Feb 19, 2010 4:13 pm

Try running with a DPS weapon, if you can get the defense rating elsewhere. The 232 ilevel weapons from ICC-5mans (or even the 251s and 264s from ICC) are excellent.

3. Libram of Valiance, unless it's progression fight. 200STR makes difference.

5. Make sure you extracting maximum threat from your opening sequence. Taunt, AS while running to boss. Conc while turning/moving him and hammer goes first. Usual rotation after.


I wholeheartedly agree. Taunt+AS on the pull, when you're too far away to judge or hammer, helps a lot. A friend of mine casts Exorcism and taunts as the cast finishes, and gets a chunk of threat that way, but it's too tedious for me. ;) You can also pre-prep your Holy Shield so that you can use a threat GCD in its place on your opener (such as Holy Wrath?).
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Re: Threat issues

Postby Anch » Fri Feb 19, 2010 7:12 pm

Kisko wrote:
Anch wrote:I used to see at least 8-9k Tps on omen and now I'm struggling to even hit a stable 7k Tps.
Now for the past two weeks I am in the 6-8k range which is why this is such a problem. Even switching back to my old gear just to test it out its still low. I have not changed my spec or glyphs either. It's driving me insane I don't know what it is and this is with perfect rotation on bosses where you just have to pretty much stand still.

And just like you mentioned now that people are gearing up in ICC it's becoming even harder. Especially since I have been extremely unlucky with drops in both ICC10 and ICC25. Do you think maybe once I snag my 2PC T10 bonus that it will help cushion out this loss?


I'm not aware of any ninja nerfs to paladins in terms of threat generation, especially that big - like 9k to 7k, which is 20% (though you can never be sure with blizz), so I don't know why it was better for you before. Could it be that your latency got worse lately and your rotation is loose now?

But anyway, 6-8k tps atm is kinda low. I'm starting to believe that weapon is really holding you back.

Here is my advices, which might be helpful for you, or might be not:

1. Run ICC10 every week until you get that weapon, I noticed that you missed about half since ICC release.
A lot of good pugs at A side of Mannoroth, I'm not sure how it goes on H side. You don't need good pug to kill 1st boss of course.

2. Expertise to soft-cap or better (26+ with SoV activated), Ceciliana is at 20 now. You only need one extra piece with expertise to cover this. Badge helm works for me so far :)

3. Libram of Valiance, unless it's progression fight. 200STR makes difference.

4. I like Glyph of Righteous Defense over Judgement. At least you will never miss a taunt/tank-swap, and that's a good chunk of damage too.

5. Make sure you extracting maximum threat from your opening sequence. Taunt, AS while running to boss. Conc while turning/moving him and hammer goes first. Usual rotation after.

HTH.


Yeah I missed a few of hte first weeks of ICC but I've been running it every week since then. Horde side pugs on Mannoroth are pretty decent as well. And good call on the opening threat sequence because I wasn't always taunting at the open before the AS for max threat.
I was thinking about that helm for the expertise cap but I'd lose a chunk of hit from the Judgement helm which (correct me if I'm wrong) would be replaced by enough strength from that one to make up for it I hope.


Thanks for all the advice. I'm going to be running ICC10/25 this weekend and hopefully an upgrade or two drops that I can use.
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Re: Threat issues

Postby Melathys » Fri Feb 19, 2010 9:01 pm

I too have been running into some problems with threat lately. The problem, however, lies with RNG.

I've been running icc10 and 25 every week since release, and the only tanking drops I've seen are the ring and shoulders from 25. So, while I've been languishing in old gear (245), with occasional upgrades via badges, my dps have become outfitted in nearly full icc gear (be it 10 or 25).

Its getting to the point where I'm about to start rolling on dps weapons for main spec upgrade.
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Re: Threat issues

Postby Aramadin » Mon Feb 22, 2010 7:22 am

I've been having threat issues myself. I found myself sitten around the 6k - 8k tps and i'm not sure why. Normally hasn't been an issue but since the last 2 weeks or so it's become an issue. I'm thinking it might be my gear. Too little hit% and little or no expertise. Getting The Cat this week so that should clear up some troubles. Sitting on the facelifter as perhaps an extra expertise source.

Here's my current gear if anyone has some insights: http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sheet ... &n=Zophiel
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Re: Threat issues

Postby Melathys » Wed Feb 24, 2010 12:25 am

Just picked up gutbuster tonight http://www.wowhead.com/?item=50810

liking it so far. Not sure what to think about the speed though, time to go digging through theorycrafting forum.
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Need threat help...

Postby Gordonoth » Sun Mar 07, 2010 3:34 am

Hey

My Question is about threat.
Recently I’ve been noticing that I have been struggling for threat against several people. Before this only happened in random PUGs with people who have a higher level of gear then I do but recently I have noticed that I have been starting to struggle against people who have more my gear level. Normal I am pulling around 4.5-6K TPS.

Here is my Armoury: http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sheet ... =Gordonoth

My rotation is normally optimal (I do mess it up sometimes but I quickly recover it) so I thought that it must be something wrong with my gear/spec.

If anyone could give me any help at all I would be grateful.

-Gordonoth

Merging this with the other threat issue thread - Barathorn
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Re: Need threat help...

Postby Zyster » Sun Mar 07, 2010 3:39 am

You can do abit of fine tuning on your spec and glyph choice for threat.

http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#sZV0tAbu ... Mzbc:pNGmc


Be sure to use seal of vengeance while tanking bosses.


Best of luck
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Re: Threat issues

Postby Vathral2 » Sun Mar 07, 2010 4:58 am

Pick up a Bloodvenom Blade and you're golden! It's what I did and haven't looked back. It's been such a great oomph in threat and dps overall for me, best pick up yet.
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Re: Need threat help...

Postby Gordonoth » Sun Mar 07, 2010 7:40 am

Thanks, i always do use Veng on bosses but i will try the spec/glyph upgrades
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Re: Need threat help...

Postby FishyJoe » Sun Mar 07, 2010 4:48 pm

If you are still struggling for threat, try replacing the green gem in your helm with a hit/stam and/or the parry gem in your chest with an agi/stam gem.

Also, you could try replacing a stam gem in your legs with an agi/stam gem (you would get the bonus +9 stam too).
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Re: Need threat help...

Postby Salamandra » Sun Mar 07, 2010 5:52 pm

Gordonoth wrote:Thanks, i always do use Veng on bosses but i will try the spec/glyph upgrades


Unless your real problem is against 4+ mob groups, I wouldn't advise to use Glyph of Hammer of the Righteous, by the way. Glyph of Vengeance certainly, but Glyph of HoR is extremely situational.
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Re: Threat issues

Postby Wrathy » Sun Mar 07, 2010 6:27 pm

Vathral2 wrote:Pick up a Bloodvenom Blade and you're golden! It's what I did and haven't looked back. It's been such a great oomph in threat and dps overall for me, best pick up yet.


While BVB is very nice, its important to understand why it produces more threat, for people who cant necessarily take any weapon they chose. Any weapon with a slow attack speed (e.g. 2.60) will increase your threat considerably. I have already swapped out my BVB for a heroic gutbuster.
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Re: Threat issues

Postby Necrolite » Sun Mar 07, 2010 6:31 pm

I've noticed a drop in threat generation recently as well. While it's noticable, its not to the extent that it causes me problems. i just notice that it's a bit lower. it can dip anywhere as low as 6k, up to around 9/10k ish.
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Re: Need threat help...

Postby Wrathy » Sun Mar 07, 2010 6:40 pm

Salamandra wrote:Unless your real problem is against 4+ mob groups, I wouldn't advise to use Glyph of Hammer of the Righteous, by the way. Glyph of Vengeance certainly, but Glyph of HoR is extremely situational.


I have to agree, the HotR glyph is only really a beneficial glyph on trash where you are tanking a lot of adds, or something such as Anub, when you know you are tanking exactly 4 things. Other than that, there is no benefit to having that glyph for bosses or smaller packs of trash because it is not properly utilized.
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