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3.3 failsafe gearing guide

Get help with your character's gear

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Re: 3.3 failsafe gearing guide

Postby econ21 » Wed Jul 14, 2010 5:05 pm

To follow up on that: against what and at what stage in the fight do new paladins lose threat? Is it trash, bosses or both? Is it just after pulling or some time into the fight? Because the gear implications are rather different.

If it is trash, then we are heading towards the overgeared guide you posted: build a threat set, including elements of ret and PvP gear.

If it is early in a boss fight, I would put in a word for the Avenger Shield glyph. Yes, averaged over a fight, it does little for tps according to Theckhd. But for initial snap aggro on the boss, it is hard to beat. I suspect it is particularly useful in unruly 25 man PUGs. I equipped it for pvp fun, but quite appreciate it on boss fights. I used to fret over losing the two additional targets but really don't need that. Even in heroics, it is not really a loss - glyphing it did not noticeably affect my dps (the double damage in boss fights probably offset the loss of damage to the 3rd trash mob). Against ICC trash, it's marginally more costly but there are substitutes (notably aggression and Holy Wrath). The main cost is probably the opportunity cost of another glyph - I dropped the SoV one, as I can get soft capped expertise regardless.

According to theckhd's work, getting soft capped in expertise and hit capped are the stat increases that give you the highest tps per item point (especially so on AOE). If we accept the premise that threat is a priority, then picking gear to meet those caps seems a good idea. The hit cap in particular is much lower against trash and in heroics.
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Re: 3.3 failsafe gearing guide

Postby yappo » Thu Jul 15, 2010 1:33 am

econ21 wrote:To follow up on that: against what and at what stage in the fight do new paladins lose threat? Is it trash, bosses or both? Is it just after pulling or some time into the fight? Because the gear implications are rather different.


The new paladin (in this case meaning the paladin gearing up according to the failsafe guide) is tanking a lot of five man pugs. Keyword here is pug.

In that environment the tank is as likely to see a dps doing even less damage than the tank as a dps nuking everything in sight without regard for the tanks ability to hold aggro.

Note that the new paladin will STILL be overgeared for 3.0 herioc content in terms of survivability, which leaves threat as the only remaining problem. Thus that problem should be adressed first (while making certain that uncrittability is maintained).

Short version: If having threat problems, those problems are going to be present for every stage of the fight.

econ21 wrote:If it is trash, then we are heading towards the overgeared guide you posted: build a threat set, including elements of ret and PvP gear.

If it is early in a boss fight, I would put in a word for the Avenger Shield glyph. Yes, averaged over a fight, it does little for tps according to Theckhd. But for initial snap aggro on the boss, it is hard to beat. I suspect it is particularly useful in unruly 25 man PUGs. I equipped it for pvp fun, but quite appreciate it on boss fights. I used to fret over losing the two additional targets but really don't need that. Even in heroics, it is not really a loss - glyphing it did not noticeably affect my dps (the double damage in boss fights probably offset the loss of damage to the 3rd trash mob). Against ICC trash, it's marginally more costly but there are substitutes (notably aggression and Holy Wrath). The main cost is probably the opportunity cost of another glyph - I dropped the SoV one, as I can get soft capped expertise regardless.

According to theckhd's work, getting soft capped in expertise and hit capped are the stat increases that give you the highest tps per item point (especially so on AOE). If we accept the premise that threat is a priority, then picking gear to meet those caps seems a good idea. The hit cap in particular is much lower against trash and in heroics.


I'm not explicitly adressing threat-management inside ICC here, because this guide aims at gearing the tank to the level where he/she will start venturing inside ICC.

While I personally believe that you don't even need full failsafe gear to tank the first 10 bosses in ICC 10 (I've never done 11 and 12 and can't have an opinion on those), unless you're tanking within a guild you'll never be admitted inside as a tank in the first place.

As for specific gear. Of the three PvP slots two (shoulders and neck) exist in versions with large amounts of hit instead of crit. They both add very decent numbers of stamina and help keeping the tank uncrittable by virtue of resilience.
For the hit-starved, keeping Saronite Swordbreakers instead of grabbing the 264 PvP ones might make sense.

Leaves expertise, which the unhappy tank will have to grab wherever possible. I suspect that advicing the tank who's about to leave level 2 and become a level 3 tank should save for the Cata chest as first priority unless already close to the expertise sotfcap from existing gear, in which case my advice on the cloak and trinket stand. Cloak because it's superior gear and trinket because the extra health keeps the tank inside the pug-raid until it's time to go to work, after which the stamina trink could be switched out for Darkmoon Card Greatness +90 str.

It's been a very long time since I even pretended to gear for stamina in ICC 10. It's a huge waste of stat for a geared tank. 35k UB (outside of ICC 10) is more than enough for the first ten bosses I've tanked down, but your raidleader may prefer you to slot in useless stamina and produce subpar threat, in which case you're in trouble.
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Re: 3.3 failsafe gearing guide

Postby econ21 » Thu Jul 15, 2010 4:10 am

yappo wrote:The new paladin (in this case meaning the paladin gearing up according to the failsafe guide) is tanking a lot of five man pugs.


OK, then in that case the glyph of avenger shield would not help and probably would harm.

Leaves expertise, which the unhappy tank will have to grab wherever possible. I suspect that advicing the tank who's about to leave level 2 and become a level 3 tank should save for the Cata chest as first priority unless already close to the expertise sotfcap from existing gear,...


Agree. For the poor who cannot afford pillars of might, the T10 legs start to look good.

There is not a lot of expertise on lower level gear and new tanks need about 22 (soft cap for heroics?). The SoV glyph might be a help but for heroic mobs tanks should be using SoC, in which case it doesn't. The 245 helm should be a priority, but then there is a dearth. Perhaps from shoulders? I hesitate to recommend T9 given the 245 alternative; maybe Wapach's as a filler (BOE from AH)? A couple of 219 one handers have expertise, some racials get expertise for their favored weapons, and there are some rings. I noticed 3 of the TOC(N) tank drops in your guide come with expertise.
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Re: 3.3 failsafe gearing guide

Postby yappo » Thu Jul 15, 2010 11:08 am

econ21 wrote:
There is not a lot of expertise on lower level gear and new tanks need about 22 (soft cap for heroics?). The SoV glyph might be a help but for heroic mobs tanks should be using SoC, in which case it doesn't. The 245 helm should be a priority, but then there is a dearth. Perhaps from shoulders? I hesitate to recommend T9 given the 245 alternative; maybe Wapach's as a filler (BOE from AH)? A couple of 219 one handers have expertise, some racials get expertise for their favored weapons, and there are some rings. I noticed 3 of the TOC(N) tank drops in your guide come with expertise.


Well, the new tank IS in "entry-level" gear. There should be wished for stats lacking, or else there would be no such thing as gear progression.

My advice would be to combine the 245 gear available with the PvP gear I've listed to maximise hit/exp but accepting that some is lacking.

As some of the fights in a heroic are still single target, I think that the SoV and HotR glyphs could go hand in hand with the DP one, while the tank still specs into SoComm. All in all it'll maximize threat as long as the tank remembers to switch seal between types of fights.

You have to remember that mana will be less of an issue for a level 2 tank than a level 3 tank as a result of taking more incoming damage.
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