3.3 failsafe gearing guide

Get help with your character's gear

Moderators: Fridmarr, Worldie, Aergis, Sabindeus, majiben, lythac, Digren

Re: 3.3 failsafe gearing guide

Postby econ21 » Thu Jan 21, 2010 6:05 am

On threat and prioritisation, when I was tanking in the BC era, the mantra was to get the highest ilevel weapon asap (in those days, by doing PvP), as it was the item that made far and away the biggest contribution to threat. I am guessing that is still true, which in terms of your guide would make grinding Argent Tournament champion seals for the axe a priority and perhaps then running ToC for Lucky Sun. I suspect a non-tanking dps weapon might be fine - and a slow 2.6 speed one even superior to some tanking alternatives. However, new level 80 tanks are going to need every bit of defence they can get to keep within the defence minimum and the AT axe is easy enough to get (I think it can be done by week 2 (day 9), on day 1 if a pre-80 level player can do AT quests).

Beyond that, I am not sure your guide needs to say more about prioritisation because as you say, it depends on what has dropped for the player and your guide is clear about the item levels of everything, which is arguably the single most important piece of information one needs when deciding what to upgrade one.

If you do want to say more, I suggest taking as the benchmark for non-emblem start gear that listed in Eanin's guide. For example:

Head, feet & shield: epic crafted (tempered titansteel)
Shoulders, hands & belt: blue crafted (tempered saronite & daunting)
Chest & cloak: Wyrmrest rep
Legs: Argent Crusade rep
Weapon: Hammer of quiet mourning
Jewellery: burning skull pendant, staunch signet and solid platinum band
Libram: Venture Co
Trinkets: none worth mentioning

I think the above is quite feasible and realistic for a serious new level 80 to start with (or quickly acquire). For example, the libram was my first purchase but my second will be the legs because I am using the blue AC reputation legs. By contrast, the helmet seems less urgent given I made a tempered titansteel one and the chest redundant given I forked out for the white knight one.

A few general principles for prioritising upgrades:

(1) Look at the gain in item level, both absolutely and per emblem. But bear in mind that some slots (chest, legs, helm etc) give you more stats per item level than others.

(2) Try to get rid of blues (they give you less per item level and are frowned on by PUGs)

[(1) and (2) should be covered by something like gearscore, but I have not tried that addon.]

(3) Look at the gain in stamina, absolutely and per emblem. New tanks are likely to be particular insecure about this most visible of stats and arguably it is the key one to focus on for surivability in progression tanking.

(4) Look at items that are likely to be best in slot and not replaced by drops for a while. Typically, these will be the higher item level ones. Readers may want to review the potential ICC 5-man drops for insights here:
http://maintankadin.failsafedesign.com/ ... =viewtopic
The emblem boots, gloves, neck and cloak seem to have items that are equalled or exceeded by heroic drops in the new instances. The bracers and chest are also inferior to the (pricey) crafted gear you list.

(5) Finally, when you have chosen your upgrade, check that you will remain uncrittable after it. Almost always you will be fine, but better safe than sorry. I've resisted buying the durable nerubhide cloak, for example, because the blue rep one contributes so much more to defence.

EDIT:

TLDR - Probably best when deciding order of upgrades, just to load up RAWR and pick the one that gives the biggest increase in score per emblem. Yes, RAWR is not perfect but the order is probably sensible. In my case (after libram and legs), it implies upgrading Wapach's shoulders to the ilevel 245 ones. The only wrinkle for me is trying to get the bonus from having two T9 pieces - for farming heroics, a 2sec reduction in HoReck cooldown sounds very useful, so buying the handguards early is tempting (even tho I have Crystalline Citadel gauntlets).
econ21
 
Posts: 1378
Joined: Tue Apr 01, 2008 8:53 am

Re: 3.3 failsafe gearing guide

Postby Baeric » Tue Feb 23, 2010 8:09 am

Thanks very much for this guide, Yappo. I've had my tankadin shelved essentially since before Ulduar, so this is going to be very helpful in getting caught up in gear. I plan on dusting him off in the next couple of weeks after I finish leveling an alt.

I do have a question regarding emblems of triumph and T9 gear, once I start cranking them out via chain random heroics. Essentially, is it generally better to go for the highest ilevel in a given slot, or should I look more closely at the T9 set bonuses(i.e. better to spend emblems on the 245 helm and craft the 245 chest, or spend emblems on the 232 helm and chest for the set bonus)?

This seemed like the place to ask. Forgive me if it isn't. As an aside, let's assume that I can obtain any of the crafted gear with ease (aside from the 264 stuff) and my primary interest is in obtaining the "ideal" gearset from craftables and emblems of triumph, regardless of effort or time to get there. I'll just take upgrades from raids and the icecrown 5-mans as they come. Thanks in advance for any advice/input.
Baeric
 
Posts: 32
Joined: Wed Jul 23, 2008 6:10 am
Location: Location, Location

Re: 3.3 failsafe gearing guide

Postby Zobel » Tue Feb 23, 2010 10:20 am

Baeric wrote:Thanks very much for this guide, Yappo. I've had my tankadin shelved essentially since before Ulduar, so this is going to be very helpful in getting caught up in gear. I plan on dusting him off in the next couple of weeks after I finish leveling an alt.

I do have a question regarding emblems of triumph and T9 gear, once I start cranking them out via chain random heroics. Essentially, is it generally better to go for the highest ilevel in a given slot, or should I look more closely at the T9 set bonuses(i.e. better to spend emblems on the 245 helm and craft the 245 chest, or spend emblems on the 232 helm and chest for the set bonus)?

This seemed like the place to ask. Forgive me if it isn't. As an aside, let's assume that I can obtain any of the crafted gear with ease (aside from the 264 stuff) and my primary interest is in obtaining the "ideal" gearset from craftables and emblems of triumph, regardless of effort or time to get there. I'll just take upgrades from raids and the icecrown 5-mans as they come. Thanks in advance for any advice/input.

This should go in the gear advice thread.

Quick answer is you have to pick up the 2-piece bonus with T9 hands and legs, since they don't have crafted alternatives short of primordial saronite gear. You should definitely pick up either the 245 off set helm or 245 off set shoulders. Whether to pick up the other 245 off set piece and crafted 245 chest or instead keep the 4-piece bonus is a judgment call you'll have to make.
User avatar
Zobel
 
Posts: 717
Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2007 6:31 pm

Re: 3.3 failsafe gearing guide

Postby yappo » Tue Feb 23, 2010 12:43 pm

Apart from the answer to T9 alternatives not REALLY being part of a failsafe guide, I'll chime in with an opinion of mine.

The two piece bonus is a threat one, so, in plain English, screw it :D

The four piece one is a survivability one. Normally I'd say go for it, but as it definitely requires drops, and my personal opinion is that the failsafe tankadin is ready to tank ICC 25 first wing, then I have to say: screw it.

Now, why on earth would I advocate leaving a survivability path aside? The answer is RNG. If you're having realistic questions about the T9 alternatives you've already passed beyond the effective limits of this guide, and you're using it to pad in the few slots where you're behind.

To use the pretty useless GearScore addon. This guide, adding the two ICC plans and shopping every theoretical BoE slot possible drops you at around 5500 GS with zero raiddrops. You're hunting ICC 10/25 drops at that point, which makes T9 questions pretty moot.
yappo
 
Posts: 1107
Joined: Wed Sep 17, 2008 4:15 pm

Re: 3.3 failsafe gearing guide

Postby Treeston » Sat Mar 13, 2010 12:02 am

[Headplate of the Honorbound] actually links to [Headguard of Inner Warmth] in your list.

EDIT: Also, [Turalyon's Breastplate of Triumph] is the iLevel 245 t9 chest, costing 75 emblems and a [Trophy of the Crusade].
Treeston
 
Posts: 2
Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2010 11:56 pm

Re: 3.3 failsafe gearing guide

Postby yappo » Sun Mar 14, 2010 6:00 pm

Treeston wrote:[Headplate of the Honorbound] actually links to [Headguard of Inner Warmth] in your list.

EDIT: Also, [Turalyon's Breastplate of Triumph] is the iLevel 245 t9 chest, costing 75 emblems and a [Trophy of the Crusade].



Fixed the Headplate. Seems they changed the item-number. You have a correct link to the 232 piece available for the chest?
yappo
 
Posts: 1107
Joined: Wed Sep 17, 2008 4:15 pm

Re: 3.3 failsafe gearing guide

Postby econ21 » Mon Mar 15, 2010 3:39 am

yappo wrote:The two piece bonus is a threat one, so, in plain English, screw it :D


But for PUGing heroics - which is what people following this guide will be doing a LOT of - I find the 2pc bonus fantastic. 2 seconds off the cooldown for your taunt can really help when things go pear shaped. Yes, we have RD too but I find that more clunky to use - I use RD to protect a healer with aggro, but otherwise use the single target taunt on lone mobs with big threatplates. Before I got the 2pc bonus, I remember several times starting at my greyed out taunt. Now it seldom happens. HoR is one place where the taunt gets a lot of use.

Of course, it is not a problem keeping the 2 piece bonus with this guide and by the time you can upgrade from it, it should not keep you from doing so. But I personally prioritised getting the 2 piece bonus before most other upgrades on your list. And I will be a little sad to lose it when I finally get my pillars of might crafted.
econ21
 
Posts: 1378
Joined: Tue Apr 01, 2008 8:53 am

Re: 3.3 failsafe gearing guide

Postby yappo » Mon Mar 15, 2010 5:50 am

econ21 wrote:
Of course, it is not a problem keeping the 2 piece bonus with this guide and by the time you can upgrade from it, it should not keep you from doing so. But I personally prioritised getting the 2 piece bonus before most other upgrades on your list. And I will be a little sad to lose it when I finally get my pillars of might crafted.


For pugging heroics, why should you lose it? Keep a threat-set. Even go as far as enchanting/gemming some of your 'obsolete' gear 'incorrectly' and go shopping in heroics. If you end up with the ICC-fiveman you can just gear in your 'real' tanking set, but as long as you're allocated one of the heroics where stuff dies if you as much as look evilly at it you honestly don't need 35k+ hp unbuffed with the assiciated insane amount of avoidance and armour.

The main reason I argue that threat is a non-issue is that this fail-safe guide has you ending up with gear well over the minimum requirements for tanking ToC25 or ICC10. Hence you should aim at actually tanking that kind of content (unless you for some reason prefer to have five-man heroics as your personal end-game content), and both ToC25 and ICC10 (given the gear available from this guide) require that you configure said gear more for survivability than threat.
yappo
 
Posts: 1107
Joined: Wed Sep 17, 2008 4:15 pm

Re: 3.3 failsafe gearing guide

Postby econ21 » Tue Mar 16, 2010 7:58 am

yappo wrote:For pugging heroics, why should you lose it? Keep a threat-set.


Good point! Recently I've tried using my Ret PvP gear for heroics and it works fine. (I switch back to proper tanking gear for ICC-5 mans and any scarey bosses.) It still has the T9 legs (the nice BV means I don't sacrifice much threat for a big gain in stamina with gems and enchant). But since your comment, I have added back in the T9 gloves. The 2pc bonus of shaving off 2 seconds from my taunt outweighs any small dps advantage from using furious gladiator gloves.
econ21
 
Posts: 1378
Joined: Tue Apr 01, 2008 8:53 am

Re: 3.3 failsafe gearing guide

Postby Treeston » Sat Mar 20, 2010 6:44 am

yappo wrote:
Treeston wrote:[Headplate of the Honorbound] actually links to [Headguard of Inner Warmth] in your list.

EDIT: Also, [Turalyon's Breastplate of Triumph] is the iLevel 245 t9 chest, costing 75 emblems and a [Trophy of the Crusade].



Fixed the Headplate. Seems they changed the item-number. You have a correct link to the 232 piece available for the chest?


That would be [Turalyon's Breastplate of Conquest]. "of Conquest" is always the suffix for the 232 items, while "of Triumph" indicates 245.

EDIT: You list [Glyph of Indomitability] as costing 35 EoT. It costs 50 emblems, same as all the other EoT trinkets.
Treeston
 
Posts: 2
Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2010 11:56 pm

Re: 3.3 failsafe gearing guide

Postby yappo » Sat Mar 20, 2010 5:21 pm

Treeston wrote:
That would be [Turalyon's Breastplate of Conquest]. "of Conquest" is always the suffix for the 232 items, while "of Triumph" indicates 245.

EDIT: You list [Glyph of Indomitability] as costing 35 EoT. It costs 50 emblems, same as all the other EoT trinkets.



Thanks. Error fixed.
yappo
 
Posts: 1107
Joined: Wed Sep 17, 2008 4:15 pm

Re: 3.3 failsafe gearing guide

Postby yappo » Tue Jun 29, 2010 5:37 am

Bumping in order to get input on a longer edit.
yappo
 
Posts: 1107
Joined: Wed Sep 17, 2008 4:15 pm

Re: 3.3 failsafe gearing guide

Postby Arincia » Tue Jun 29, 2010 9:23 am

I would almost suggest a persons first EoF purchase be the tank chest. The expertese and stam/armor combined with the lack of expertise gear in ICC (weapons or feet) make it the best choice to get. (39 stam 10 exp rating 1.3k armor compared to the 245 boe chest) It also makes it a lot easier to juggle around def cap and not worry about exp soft cap for bosses. (10 gear+6 talents+10 sov glyph=26 for soft cap)
I would think that starting around week 2(or 3) they can start to do voa 10 and weekly quests. This would bring them up to almost 21 (23 with voa 25) eof a week. Add in icc quest line (6 eof) and ruby sanc quest line (5 eof)
this is a significant amount. fist week 14 eof, 2nd week 14 dailys+5 weekly+5 RS quest (42 total), 3rd week 14 dailys+5 weekly+6 icc quest (67), 4th week 14 dailys 5 weekly 4 voa (90). As you can see it would very reasonable to do so. Considering 4 are in naxx 10 where you can do it with blues 4 are in uld which you can do as pug as the OT, 1 is lord jaraxa's on 10 man which at week 3 you should be able to handle and last is marrowgaur you get in early in week 4 (3 if your lucky on drops. so at worst week 1 you should be able to do 5/10 (naxx+FL), 2nd week 8/10 (naxx+uld), 3rd week 9/10 and last week all of them.
Image
Arincia
 
Posts: 240
Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2010 10:13 am

Re: 3.3 failsafe gearing guide

Postby econ21 » Tue Jun 29, 2010 10:02 am

That's a good update. I wonder if there is any point adding a list of final gear by slot? With up to three options - emblem of triumph; crafted; and drops - and indicating the best in slot (*)?

Something like (I forget the names; emblem unless stated otherwise):

Helm: 245 *
Neck: 226; ammonite choker (drop) *
Shoulders: 245 *
Cloak: 219; eerie runeblade polisher (drop) *
Chest: T9; white knight (crafted) *
Bracers: 213; saronite (crafted) *
Hands: T9 *
Waist: 226; 226 (crafted) *
Legs: T9; pillars (crafted) *
Feet: 213; black spire sabbatons (drop); kingly upheaval (crafted) *
Shield: 200 (various); 219 (drop) *
Weapon: Argent Tournament failsafe; rimefang (best of drops) *
Libram: sacred shield * (for heroic SoC)
Trinkets: black heart (drop) *; glyph *
Ring: clutch *; mark of the relentless (drop) *

One thing that strikes me is that with many - most - slots, the emblem of triumph gear is not the best pre-raid item in the slot (I've bolded the cases where it is). This might affect the order in which players choose to spend their emblems - in case they get lucky with a drop or get rich.

However, such a list may not be necessary. You could just refer readers to the following thread which does something very similar, albeit for warriors:

http://www.tankspot.com/showthread.php? ... ank-in-LFD
econ21
 
Posts: 1378
Joined: Tue Apr 01, 2008 8:53 am

Re: 3.3 failsafe gearing guide

Postby yappo » Wed Jul 14, 2010 4:40 pm

A short note on my follow-up notes.

On a number of occasions I've stated that threat is a secondary ability for the level 2 tank.

I now rescind on those statements for until Cataclysm is released and this guide becomes moot anyway. After making sure you're not getting killed by walking around crittable and ensuring you have the basic EH needed for surviving whatever you're currently tanking, threat is your number one priority.

The reason for this is that you're likely to build your failsafe gear while tanking heroics together with hysterically overgeared dps. Eventually you'll end up tanking ICC and VoA with equally hysterically overgeared dps.

While the loot-pinata named VoA might require you to keep an eye on your survivability, the current 25% buff in ICC paradoxally makes you more or less unkillable while formally being harder content. Enter the obscenely overgeared healers and you should concentrate on keeping aggro on your target until you have aqquired enough gear to actually look like a proper tank (by which time you should still concentrate on tank-dps, but that's a personal opinion of mine, and one that's definitely universally shared by most tanks).

Hence the retribution libram, the crafted +90 str trinket and some kind of slow one-hander dps-weapon become priority slots to fill in while you're catching up gearwise. I strongly recommend getting a couple of the PvP items available (neck and wrists as priority) in order to esure uncrittability while maintaining a healthy stamina-pool.

Observe that this is the failsafe gearing guide. If you get yourself killed in Ruby Sanctum or ICC hardmodes after following this piece of threat-advertising, please stay adviced I did NOT suggest you keep on gearing for maximum threat when hitting targets that are serious about hurting you.
yappo
 
Posts: 1107
Joined: Wed Sep 17, 2008 4:15 pm

PreviousNext

Return to Gear Discussions and Advice

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron

Who is online

In total there is 1 user online :: 0 registered, 0 hidden and 1 guest (based on users active over the past 5 minutes)
Most users ever online was 380 on Tue Oct 14, 2008 6:28 pm

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest