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Ratanna's 3.2 TTL Best-in-Slot Guide. Hard Mode Loot Incl

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Re: Ratanna's 3.2 TTL Best-in-Slot Guide. Hard Mode Loot Incl

Postby WolT » Wed Sep 16, 2009 11:30 pm

Hi Ratanna and everyone else who are following this supreme gear guide. But i've come to a really big stop here by recently looking at your armory profile, why in the world do you stack defense to 570 instead of agi or pure stamina? What have changed since 3.1? Thanks for a super guide and for everyone good luck in ToC25man hardmode.
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Re: Ratanna's 3.2 TTL Best-in-Slot Guide. Hard Mode Loot Incl

Postby Ratanna » Thu Sep 17, 2009 9:47 am

WolT wrote:Hi Ratanna and everyone else who are following this supreme gear guide. But i've come to a really big stop here by recently looking at your armory profile, why in the world do you stack defense to 570 instead of agi or pure stamina? What have changed since 3.1? Thanks for a super guide and for everyone good luck in ToC25man hardmode.


raid buffed i have 53,822 hp, 30.96% dodge (w/o goose/libram), 20.92% parry, 11.80% block rating, 570 defense.

The reason why i dont go straight stam like i did before is because of the way the new ardent defender works.

35% of 53,822 hp is 18,838. Well the way AD works any hit that is supposed to take me below 18,838 hp will be mitigated by 30% after the 35% threshold. It will continue to reduce all hits after 35% hp by 30%. This is mainly a concern on a few fights. Gormok bleeds (5+ stacks), mimiron plasma blasts, anubarak when he stuns you, icehowl stuns, Jaraxxus fel fireball, and twins if ur OTing during a twins pact.

example @53,822hp
@30,000HP
INCOMING: 18,000 Melee (After armor mit/mit talents)
AD Triggered, BUT there is a condition. since my AD triggers at 18,383hp i will take the full 11,617dmg (30,000-18,000), and then i will mitigate the rest 6,383hp (18,000-11,617) by 30%. So AD will have successfully mit 1915 dmg (6,383*.3). With that being said The 18k hit at 30,000 hp would have totaled to 16085. (18,000-1915)
-16,085HP
@13,915HP
INCOMING: 18,000 Melee (After armor mit/mit talents)
AD is in full effect since you are sub 35%, so 18,000*.7= 12,600
-12,600HP
@1,315HP


I don't stack defense, its just the new gear comes with a lot. Btw the only avoidance you have while stunned is miss. The only thing that matters when ur stunned is Raw HP, Armor/mitigation, and ur miss rate. Dodge/parry/block do NOTHING when ur stunned. You want very high avoidance if ur tanking anub hard mode as the less heals u need, the less it will heal the boss. You will still need the stam/armor to survive the bursts during a stun though.

Block mechanic on adds is a diff story. i have not made a set for it yet and probably wont even try.

here are my stats raid buffed minus improved strength of earth (which is +23.25% agi/str). (horn of winter instead)..
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Last edited by Ratanna on Sat Sep 19, 2009 8:01 am, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: Ratanna's 3.2 TTL Best-in-Slot Guide. Hard Mode Loot Incl

Postby theckhd » Thu Sep 17, 2009 10:37 am

Ratanna wrote:35% of 53,822 hp is 18,838. Well the way AD works any hit that is supposed to take me below 18,838 hp will be mitigated by 30% and every hit after that will be mitigated below < 35% hp. So creating such an insanely high stamina pool means your DTPS may possibly be significantly higher since you will seldom get AD to proc.

That's not how Ardent Defender works. It only mitigates the portion of the damage that would occur below 35%.

Thus, your DTPS may be slightly higher, but your TTL is still increased by adding more stamina. In its current form, there's never a situation where adding more Stamina decreases your TTL. This wasn't true back when it mitigated the entire attack that took you below 35%, but that never made it to live iirc.

In other words, stacking stamina both increases the AD window and decreases the amount of damage that AD mitigates on average, but it doesn't decrease your survivability, it's always an increase.
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Re: Ratanna's 3.2 TTL Best-in-Slot Guide. Hard Mode Loot Incl

Postby Ratanna » Thu Sep 17, 2009 10:54 am

corrected.
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Re: Ratanna's 3.2 TTL Best-in-Slot Guide. Hard Mode Loot Incl

Postby theckhd » Thu Sep 17, 2009 11:28 am

Just to touch on this in more detail, since this is intimately related to the ongoing discussion about whether to gem straight Stamina or use "balanced gemming" to pick up socket bonuses and get an overall higher ilvl out of your gear at the cost of a little EH:

Given a max health H, and a boss that attacks for damage D. Since you take full damage above the AD threshold, and 70% damage below the AD threshold, your EH is always 0.65*H+0.35*H/0.7, or 1.15*H. In other words, AD is a 15% EH boost.

Stacking stamina linearly increases your TTL. It's always linear. If you add a small amount of health h, so that your new max health is H+dH, your EH is 1.15(H+dH), and your TTL goes from 1.15*H/D to 1.15*(H+dH)/D. You've increased your TTL linearly there, because you can now take 1.15*dH more damage before dying.

How is that consistent with taking higher DTPS? Well, it's a subtlety of the details. The amount of damage you take in one hit DTPH is a piecewise function. If C is your current health, and A is the AD threshold:

if D>C-A
DTPH = (C-A) + 0.7*(D-(C-A))

otherwise (D<C-A)
DTPH = D

The second case is the trivial case where the damage you take doesn't drop you below the AD threshold, and we'll come back to it in a second. The first case is where the DTPS change comes from.

Let's assume you start at max health, so C=H, and A=0.35*H, making C-A=0.65*H. Let's also assume that the damage is larger than this value, so we're in the first case. Your DTPH due to just that first attack is then:

DTPH=0.65*H + 0.7*(D-0.65*H)

and you're left with
H-DTPH = 0.805*H - 0.7*D
health after the first attack.

if we boost our health by dH, it becomes DTPH' (using primed and unprimed variables is a pretty standard convention for indicating "before" and "after"):
DTPH'=0.65*(H+dH)+0.7*(D-0.65*(H+dH)) = DTPH + 0.65*(1-0.7)*dH = DTPH + 0.195*dH

So by adding dH health, we've actually increased the DTPH of the first hit we take by about 20% of the amount of health we added. That sounds bad. However, despite taking more damage from that first hit, we still end up with more health after taking it than we would in the first scenario. We're left with
(H+dH)-DTPS' = H-DTPS + dH - 0.195*dH = H-DTPS + 0.805*dH
hit points, or 0.805*dH more than we would have had in the "before" scenario. Since that extra health is all below the AD threshold, it requires 0.805*dH/0.7 extra damage to remove it, and increasing our TTL by that much. It's no coincidence that 0.805*dH/0.7=1.15*dH. So despite increasing the DTPS we take initially (and on average, technically), we've still increased our TTL linearly by stacking stamina.

If we increase H to the point that the damage doesn't take us below the AD threshold (case 2 in our piecewise function), then extra stamina no longer increases DTPH from the first hit, but does so for the second hit (or third, or whatever depending on how high you let H go), with exactly the same sort of results.

I've hand-waved a bit here, in that the AD reduction is really an absorb now, and due to order of operations it's not strictly multiplicative like this (iirc the absorb takes place before armor is applied, and possibly before some other mitigation effects). But the net result should be qualitatively the same, even if the numbers are a bit off.
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Re: Ratanna's 3.2 TTL Best-in-Slot Guide. Hard Mode Loot Incl

Postby Phonic » Thu Sep 17, 2009 11:38 am

Ratanna, great guide, definitely appreciated. I don't have all the access to that gear that you're sporting atm, so my set definitely has some changes (ie. BOE Chest), but overall love reading the stuff you write. No one will ever 100% agree with you, but at least you're out here providing something versus most people who are providing nothing :p

Theck, thanks for always bringing some good theorycrafting & numbers to the discussion.

I just hit 40K HP and was happy until I saw many of you guys are at 42-43K :( haha
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Re: Ratanna's 3.2 TTL Best-in-Slot Guide. Hard Mode Loot Incl

Postby theckhd » Thu Sep 17, 2009 11:42 am

Phonic wrote:I just hit 40K HP and was happy until I saw many of you guys are at 42-43K :( haha

Don't feel so bad. I think I'm sitting at about 42k unbuffed and 51k raid-buffed, so I'm still jealous of Ratanna too. He's always ahead of me on the gear curve, so it's a pretty consistent jealousy. :P

Actually, I think that means I'm less jealous of his gear than I am of his guild's pool of talented players. Especially dps players. We're still working on heroic Northrend Beasts and 25-man Firefighter because we have people pulling 3-4k dps and unable to kite fires. :(
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Re: Ratanna's 3.2 TTL Best-in-Slot Guide. Hard Mode Loot Incl

Postby Flex » Fri Sep 18, 2009 9:58 am

Ratanna wrote:Miss is very very good cuz it works against spells too.


Source?
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Re: Ratanna's 3.2 TTL Best-in-Slot Guide. Hard Mode Loot Incl

Postby Meloree » Fri Sep 18, 2009 4:39 pm

theckhd wrote:Don't feel so bad. I think I'm sitting at about 42k unbuffed and 51k raid-buffed, so I'm still jealous of Ratanna too. He's always ahead of me on the gear curve, so it's a pretty consistent jealousy. :P


Your definition of raidbuffed must vary from mine. I get roughly 12k from raidbuffs currently. Are your warriors slacking?

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Re: Ratanna's 3.2 TTL Best-in-Slot Guide. Hard Mode Loot Incl

Postby Ratanna » Fri Sep 18, 2009 11:10 pm

.
Last edited by Ratanna on Sat Sep 19, 2009 8:02 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Ratanna's 3.2 TTL Best-in-Slot Guide. Hard Mode Loot Incl

Postby Fridmarr » Sat Sep 19, 2009 12:03 am

Ratanna wrote:
Flex wrote:
Ratanna wrote:Miss is very very good cuz it works against spells too.


Source?


http://www.wowmeteronline.com

You'll need to be more specific than that. To my knowledge defense, or the miss granted by defense, provides no protection against spells. Spell protection comes from resistance.
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Re: Ratanna's 3.2 TTL Best-in-Slot Guide. Hard Mode Loot Incl

Postby Ratanna » Sat Sep 19, 2009 8:00 am

after sifting through lots of parses. turns out the misses were actually absorbs. edited.
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Re: Ratanna's 3.2 TTL Best-in-Slot Guide. Hard Mode Loot Incl

Postby Toddrick » Wed Oct 07, 2009 4:51 am

Great guide. I've been on a 5 month break but used your initial WotLK best-in-slot guide and managed to only miss out on a couple of drops due to the loot gods hating me. Looks like I have some catching up to do. I remember when I peaked at a lil over 40k raid buffed and everyone thought that was amazing :(. Oh well. Second week back and already got a decent amount of upgrades.

Thanks for the write up.
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Re: Ratanna's 3.2 TTL Best-in-Slot Guide. Hard Mode Loot Incl

Postby sfrog » Tue Oct 20, 2009 6:41 pm

Would it be possible to get a Chardev of your Anub set?
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Re: Ratanna's 3.2 TTL Best-in-Slot Guide. Hard Mode Loot Incl

Postby LPskater4886 » Tue Oct 20, 2009 7:22 pm

http://chardev.org/?profile=306848

that's my set since ratanna said he doesn't have one

there are better options for neck gloves and cloak, from naxx 25 and ulduar 25, why oh why did i have to delete them when i xfer'd, damn blizz and bagspace
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