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3.3 Gem and Enchant Guide

Get help with your character's gear

Moderators: Fridmarr, Worldie, Aergis, Sabindeus, majiben, lythac, Digren

Re: 3.2 Gem and Enchant Guide

Postby Digren » Tue Aug 18, 2009 8:50 am

Defense to shield has nothing to do with its inherent avoidance. Defense to shield has to do with being uncrittable.

When your gear gets good enough to not require defense enhancement through all yellow gem slots, head enchant, shoulder enchant, back enchant, chest enchant, and shield enchant, where do you start cutting defense to boost other important stats?

If the socket bonus on the gear is poor, swapping def/sta gems to pure sta is a huge effective health boost and is one of the first places to enact change. The other place is on the back enchant, where Agi or the engie flexweave offer more pure avoidance, or the armor enchant is again a good effective health boost. Then you can look at your chest enchant, where +health is an ok EH boost given the loss of defense.

Some people would look at the shoulder enchant next, since 30 sta at the loss of 20 dodge and 15 def is a fair tradeoff for some. Only then would most people consider the block value enhancement via swapping out their shield enchant. (Perhaps, with the doubling of block value in 3.2, people would swap shield before shoulder. That remains to be seen.)

It's very unlikely anyone would swap out their head enchant for the engie alternative, since losing 20 def rating for 8 stamina is a poor deal under any circumstances.

When you've made all the other swaps, and you can still drop more defense/avoidance to gain effective health, then by all means use the block value enchant to shield. As I say at the top of the first post, only you, the experienced tankadin, knows what's best for you given your gear and raid role.

When most expert tanks on this forum have reached this point, and most feel that the block value enchant is the best value for the slot, I'll change the recommendation. Most don't yet. I don't yet. So I'm not changing it.
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Re: 3.2 Gem and Enchant Guide

Postby Macktruck » Tue Aug 18, 2009 3:24 pm

As far as nightmare tears go, I put one in my Conq T8 shoulders because at the time, nobody could cut a Regal or Shifting Dreadstone. I don't really regret the gem as it activates my Austere Meta, and I gain 10 str at the cost of 5 stam. Not that huge of a loss.

Don't have a nightmare tear in boss tanking gear though. It's a decent choice, but not 100% optimal.
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Re: 3.2 Gem and Enchant Guide

Postby Ard » Wed Aug 19, 2009 12:46 am

Nominate for sticky. This guide rocks.
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Re: 3.2 Gem and Enchant Guide

Postby Barathorn » Wed Aug 19, 2009 2:10 am

Ard wrote:Nominate for sticky. This guide rocks.


/points at maintankadin consolidated gearing guide sticky at top of page.

This guide. It's in it.

/slaps ard with a wet fish.

Please continue your excellant work Digren.

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Re: 3.2 Gem and Enchant Guide

Postby Argali » Sun Aug 23, 2009 8:59 am

Concerning mongoose, while I personally still use it, last time I cared to lurk at tankspot, the peeps who tested mongoose v blade warding have basically said that mongoose is now dead. No maths or anything, they just stated mongoose is now dead. Keep in mind these were the 2 people who analyzed logs and stuff to figure out how good blade warding was.

Thought I'd mention it in case it's been missed.
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Re: 3.2 Gem and Enchant Guide

Postby Ard » Mon Aug 24, 2009 5:38 am

Barathorn wrote:
Ard wrote:Nominate for sticky. This guide rocks.


/points at maintankadin consolidated gearing guide sticky at top of page.

This guide. It's in it.

/slaps ard with a wet fish.

Please continue your excellant work Digren.

Barathorn


Hmm fish! ;)
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Re: 3.2 Gem and Enchant Guide

Postby PtrN1026 » Mon Aug 24, 2009 4:46 pm

I have been running with the idea of stam and strength being the best options for us, and have been running str/stam if its a red socket and def/stam if it is a yellow socket, and only then socket bonus would put me at a maximum of 5 stam loss when compared to gemming strait stam.

I have been avoiding gemming for parry or dodge simply because the gains on it seem to be minimum compared to the threat and EH gain (via block) of gemming for strength. What is the logic of avoiding strength gems?

I'm not trying to argue, just trying to understand ^_^.

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Re: 3.2 Gem and Enchant Guide

Postby Digren » Tue Aug 25, 2009 9:23 am

The effective health gain of block at all is minimal at best, and the relative benefit from strength (i.e. 50% of the strength as block value) is smaller still. Meanwhile, avoidance, while not as good as effective health from a guaranteed survivability standpoint, does help give period breather / catch-up opportunities for your healers.

And the threat from strength is completely wasted unless you threat cap your raid, which you shouldn't be able to do if you're following the proper threat rotation.

When the diminishing returns on avoidance have rendered it marginal, and our threat has been nerfed in 3.3, the viability of strength gems will be revisited.
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Re: 3.2 Gem and Enchant Guide

Postby repent » Wed Aug 26, 2009 7:37 am

It seems to me likely, in the near future, that I will be swiching from Enduring gems in my yellow "necessary" sockets to Vivid Eye of Zul (+10 Hit Rating and +15 Stamina) gems as Defense/expertise in gear goes up and hit goes down. Each raid lockout, it seems I am dropping 20-30 hit. It seems a good way of maintaining respectable hit numbers, at least a 20-30 bump at relatively little cost.
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Re: 3.2 Gem and Enchant Guide

Postby Digren » Wed Aug 26, 2009 9:02 am

Yeah, let me expand my strength comment to say that, in general, we'll need to revisit the viability of threat gems in 3.3. As our gear scales up this expansion, our need for supplemental defense and avoidance diminishes, but our need for supplemental threat increases. Until a month ago almost no one talked positively about gemming for threat, but now I see it more and more.

Obviously some tanks who falling into the only you, the experienced tankadin, knows what's best for you given your gear and raid role category will start swapping now, but I'll wait until the majority see it as a good choice before I start recommending it to those who aren't as skilled at making their own decisions.
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Re: 3.2 Gem and Enchant Guide

Postby Macktruck » Wed Aug 26, 2009 2:42 pm

We might also want to wait until after the patch where our threat does get nerfed. I've already replaced the 20 agi on my gloves to 20 hit to make up for the 50+ hit I lost the other night in lieu of more expertise.

I would also recommend using the 40 hit 40 stam food instead of fish feasts for those who are getting low on hit.
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Re: 3.2 Gem and Enchant Guide

Postby Petrus » Wed Aug 26, 2009 6:05 pm

I think, even with threat nerfs, we will (for the most part) be fine doing things the way we have been. The biggest change, however, is going to come not in our gems and enchants but in our gear selection. I am already beginning to weigh gear with hit, more strength, or block value as more valuable for threat vs. avoidance as it sits now. I doubt that I will change my gemming/enchanting away from avoidance to threat any more than it already is (I use 2% threat/10parry on gloves and accuracy on weapon), but will simply look for more threat stats on gear than I used to, whereas I wouldn't even worry about it beyond working toward hit cap.
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Re: 3.2 Gem and Enchant Guide

Postby Marrus » Thu Aug 27, 2009 5:12 am

When you get a Libram of Defiance, you need to take into account the near constant +200 dodge rating buff. You can still use the 1.88 rule of thumb, if you just make sure to use the values for dodge and parry *with* the buff up.
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Re: 3.2 Gem and Enchant Guide

Postby Digren » Thu Aug 27, 2009 8:18 am

Marrus wrote:When you get a Libram of Defiance, you need to take into account the near constant +200 dodge rating buff. You can still use the 1.88 rule of thumb, if you just make sure to use the values for dodge and parry *with* the buff up.

Thanks! Good catch. I added a note to the section to remind people to be raid buffed when performing this check.
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Re: 3.2 Gem and Enchant Guide

Postby repent » Thu Aug 27, 2009 2:00 pm

Just to explain my post above. I am not in any way gemming hit to address threat issues on the next patch. I am talking about gemming hit because it is more optimal to me for tanking purposes than defense at my gear level and with my tasks. The fact of the matter is, I want to be able to single taunt. I want my debuffs up. I was referring to the almost total absence of hit on 245+ gear, and the excess of defense on gear for this patch (right now.) I honestly think once people see how little hit they have that people will be struggling to find it somewhere, and doing lousy things to get it. I believe it is worth a mention for tanking purposes now, so I was suggesting it be mentioned as a viable alternative. I was not referring to it as some type of threat fix.
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