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3.3 Gem and Enchant Guide

Get help with your character's gear

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Re: 3.3 Gem and Enchant Guide

Postby yappo » Mon Apr 19, 2010 8:21 am

Altais wrote:Well I got that... my question is what if the socket it red? Should I throw a 10 AGIL 15 STAM in there just to get the 21 STAM total? OR just do a 30 STAM gem..


Always depends on YOUR tanking situation.

Anyway, if the bonus is 12 stamina, I think most everyone here agrees that agi/stam gem is a no-brainer.
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Re: 3.3 Gem and Enchant Guide

Postby Digren » Mon Apr 19, 2010 8:55 am

Altais wrote:Well I got that... my question is what if the socket it red? Should I throw a 10 AGIL 15 STAM in there just to get the 21 STAM total? OR just do a 30 STAM gem..

There's not a definitive answer, so I can't give you one. Based on your gear level, you may or may not wish to match +6 stamina socket bonuses. Read the "Tank Levels" and "How to Stack Stamina" sections of the guide. Then, make your own decision or post in the Gear Check and Advice thread and someone else will help you.

Also, you earlier asked about a piece that had, say a +9 stamina socket bonus and three sockets - one red, one yellow, one blue. In that case, as in every case, you put a +30 stamina gem in the blue socket. Then, if you want the bonus, you have two non-blue sockets to match to get it. That basically means that each non-blue socket has an associated +4.5 stamina socket bonus. Do you want that bonus? Maybe. It's not very good, but a starting tank may want it because his or her overall avoidance and defense are low, so there is benefit to get dodge or agility plus defense plus some stamina. Again, you need to decide this based on your tank level, or you need to go post a link to your profile and ask for help if you can't figure it out on your own.

Good luck!
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Re: 3.3 Gem and Enchant Guide

Postby Nidokuin » Tue Apr 20, 2010 3:14 am

quick question.

You say that we should only be really matching 12+ sockets, but for example with the frost emblem would it be better to socket that (1 red, 1 blue, 1 empty after buckle) giving a +9 stam bonus as with the 10 agility and 15 stam gem so instead of getting 30 stam from that socket i would in effect be getting 24 stam and 10 agility giving me armor/crit.

Thanks
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Re: 3.3 Gem and Enchant Guide

Postby Barathorn » Tue Apr 20, 2010 4:52 am

Nidokuin wrote:quick question.

You say that we should only be really matching 12+ sockets, but for example with the frost emblem would it be better to socket that (1 red, 1 blue, 1 empty after buckle) giving a +9 stam bonus as with the 10 agility and 15 stam gem so instead of getting 30 stam from that socket i would in effect be getting 24 stam and 10 agility giving me armor/crit.

Thanks


That is how I generally socket for a two socket +9 bonus if it is a blue/red socket. I dont tend to socket for the bonus when I have 3 sockets of different colours, blue/red/yellow for example. Plus I find that the pieces that have 3 sockets generally [chest + legs] at my progression level dictate which way I socket them anyway irrespective of the +12 socket bonus.

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Re: 3.3 Gem and Enchant Guide

Postby Marblehead » Tue Apr 20, 2010 6:29 am

I have a small correction to make to this amazing guide. It doesn't make any significant difference, it's more for the sake of precision.
There aren't any +9 avoidance socket bonuses in game. As far as tanking gear is concerned, socket bonuses (for items with 174 ilvl or higher) are as follows:

There are 2 categories of stats as socket bonuses in tank items.
Category 1: Stamina, Block Value
Category 2: Defense, Dodge, Parry, Block, Hit, Expertise

Any piece with 3 sockets or a head piece with one meta + one other socket: +12 of category 1 or +8 of category 2
Any piece with 2 sockets: +9 of category 1 or +6 of category 2
Any piece with 1 socket: +6 of category 1 or +4 of category 2


The only exception of the above I could find is the paladin T7 head with +6 expertise instead of +8.

Edit: To spare digren from having to run the calculations.
1.2 : Replace [Enduring Eye of Zul] with [Solid Majestic Zircon] in a yellow socket, if the socket bonus is +8 avoidance rating (10+8)/15=1.27
1.3 : Replace [Shifting Dreadstone] with [Solid Majestic Zircon] in a red socket, if the socket bonus is +8 avoidance rating (10*1.1*0.83+8)/(30-15-20/11)
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Re: 3.3 Gem and Enchant Guide

Postby Digren » Tue Apr 20, 2010 8:16 am

Nidokuin wrote:quick question.

You say that we should only be really matching 12+ sockets, but for example with the frost emblem would it be better to socket that (1 red, 1 blue, 1 empty after buckle) giving a +9 stam bonus as with the 10 agility and 15 stam gem so instead of getting 30 stam from that socket i would in effect be getting 24 stam and 10 agility giving me armor/crit.

Thanks

If I understand your question correctly, you are talking about a belt with one red socket and one blue socket, where you can add a buckle for a third colorless socket. The socket bonus in this case is +9 stamina.

I call out what to do about colorless sockets:
Blue Gem Slot or Colorless Gem Slot

So both the blue and colorless sockets get pure stamina gems.

Then, the piece has a red socket and a "good" (for the purpose of this discussion) socket bonus.
Red Gem Slot (with a good socket bonus)

So put an agi/sta gem in the red socket, picking up the associated +9 sta bonus.
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Re: 3.3 Gem and Enchant Guide

Postby Digren » Tue Apr 20, 2010 8:48 am

Marblehead wrote:I have a small correction to make to this amazing guide. It doesn't make any significant difference, it's more for the sake of precision.
There aren't any +9 avoidance socket bonuses in game. As far as tanking gear is concerned, socket bonuses (for items with 174 ilvl or higher) are as follows:

Thanks! I updated the table. At the same time, I changed the armor/stamina ratio from the old 11-to-1 to the newer 10-to-1 in use by most end-game tankadins today. This shuffled a few things around.
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Re: 3.3 Gem and Enchant Guide

Postby econ21 » Mon Apr 26, 2010 3:09 am

This is a deceptively deep guide that I am only now starting to fully appreciate (I just realised I made a mistake regemming for pure stamina with +6sta bonus before I switched my chest enchant from defence to health).

A minor point - I think the "Digren says..." recommendation on shield enchants needs updating now that stamina is ranked #1.
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Re: 3.3 Gem and Enchant Guide

Postby Digren » Mon Apr 26, 2010 8:32 am

econ21 wrote:A minor point - I think the "Digren says..." recommendation on shield enchants needs updating now that stamina is ranked #1.

Oops - thanks!
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Re: 3.3 Gem and Enchant Guide

Postby Marblehead » Mon May 03, 2010 6:55 am

I noticed that some people get confused about gemming tri-color items. How about we add the following in the list?

0.97 : Replace [Enduring Eye of Zul] and [Shifting Dreadstone] with [Solid Majestic Zircon] in a yellow and red socket on a tri-color item, if the socket bonus is +8 avoidance rating (10+10*1.1*0.83+8)/(60-30-20/10)
1.2 : Replace [Enduring Eye of Zul] and [Shifting Dreadstone] with [Solid Majestic Zircon] in a yellow and red socket on a tri-color item, if the socket bonus is +12 stamina rating (10+10*1.1*0.83)/(60-30-12-20/10)=1.27

(I hope my calculations are correct :P )
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Re: 3.3 Gem and Enchant Guide

Postby Ajire » Fri May 07, 2010 6:24 am

Thank you for this very illuminating guide, I - for instance - had never thought of Agi as a valuable tankadin stat and a candidate for my red sockets.

However, I would like to comment on Hit Rating:

Digren wrote:(...)
  • Decrease or remove the chance of a missed taunt.
The second reason to stack hit rating may sound like a good idea, but keep in mind that paladin tanks have three taunts:
  1. Hand of Reckoning
  2. Righteous Defense
  3. Hand of Protection
It is a rare case that the first two fail sequentially, and the third is a guaranteed success provided the tank is second on the aggro list, so in general stacking hit rating for taunts is neither necessary or desired.


While not untrue, using both Righteous Defense and HoP for tank-switching scenarios can be very risky business.

I'd like to illustrate this using the Four Horsemen encounter, and this is based on an actual wipe: During the switch of Thane Korth'azz and Baron Rivendare, the warrior and tankadin taunted using their single target taunts; the HoR-taunt missed and reacting instinctively, the tankadin hit Righteous defense, with the result that he taunted both bosses off the warrior and died very quickly. BoP had resulted in the same thing.

Evidently, any encounter involving more than one mob/boss is unsuited for using RD and HoP as backup taunts! To avoid taunt failure, I would strongly recommend enchanting/gemming for hit until the 8% cap is reached - for most tanks it's sufficient with 1-3 hit/stam green gems in yellow sockets - and using the glyph of Righteous Defense. A missed taunt is such a dumb reason to wipe :)
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Re: 3.3 Gem and Enchant Guide

Postby Marblehead » Fri May 07, 2010 7:06 am

You may have a point there, but that's not a reason to gem/enchant hit rating (except Accuracy). Why? Because the base miss chance for taunts on bosses is 17% (spell hit cap). To cap that you need to reach 9% spell hit (= 237 hit rating = 7.23% melee hit) and use the RD glyph. I'm sure there are many paladins out there that would prefer to use some other glyph than the RD one.
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Re: 3.3 Gem and Enchant Guide

Postby theckhd » Fri May 07, 2010 7:18 am

Ajire wrote:I'd like to illustrate this using the Four Horsemen encounter, and this is based on an actual wipe: During the switch of Thane Korth'azz and Baron Rivendare, the warrior and tankadin taunted using their single target taunts; the HoR-taunt missed and reacting instinctively, the tankadin hit Righteous defense, with the result that he taunted both bosses off the warrior and died very quickly. BoP had resulted in the same thing.

Evidently, any encounter involving more than one mob/boss is unsuited for using RD and HoP as backup taunts! To avoid taunt failure, I would strongly recommend enchanting/gemming for hit until the 8% cap is reached - for most tanks it's sufficient with 1-3 hit/stam green gems in yellow sockets - and using the glyph of Righteous Defense. A missed taunt is such a dumb reason to wipe :)


I disagree on three counts.
1) We were tanking 4H perfectly fine before we had Hand of Reckoning, as long as the other tank wasn't also a Paladin.
2) In your example, everything would have been OK if the Paladin had used Righteous Defense as his first taunt, and the Warrior waited to taunt the other boss until after RD (i.e. that wipe was the paladin's mistake, because he didn't use his abilities in the right order).
3) Gemming for hit in your high-survival gear lowers your survival on progression fights. It's better to swap in an older item with hit for the few fights where you want your taunts to be hit-capped (gemming hit in those items would be fine).
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Re: 3.3 Gem and Enchant Guide

Postby Ajire » Fri May 07, 2010 7:25 am

Marblehead wrote:You may have a point there, but that's not a reason to gem/enchant hit rating (except Accuracy). Why? Because the base miss chance for taunts on bosses is 17% (spell hit cap). To cap that you need to reach 9% spell hit (= 237 hit rating = 7.23% melee hit) and use the RD glyph.


Yes, I believe I said that:

(...)To avoid taunt failure, I would strongly recommend enchanting/gemming for hit until the 8% cap is reached - for most tanks it's sufficient with 1-3 hit/stam green gems in yellow sockets - and using the glyph of Righteous Defense.


However, I was erroneous in saying that the needed cap for taunt hit whilst using the glyph is 8% - I stand corrected.

Marblehead wrote:I'm sure there are many paladins out there that would prefer to use some other glyph than the RD one.


So it's a matter of preference? preference is not a reason, because then my preference be taunt-hit-capped is just as valid a reason to do it.

Can you elaborate on the reason not to gem/enchant for hit?
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Re: 3.3 Gem and Enchant Guide

Postby theckhd » Fri May 07, 2010 7:29 am

Ajire wrote:Can you elaborate on the reason not to gem/enchant for hit?

theckhd wrote:3) Gemming for hit in your high-survival gear lowers your survival on progression fights. It's better to swap in an older item with hit for the few fights where you want your taunts to be hit-capped (gemming hit in those items would be fine).


Swapping in a hit item > gemming hit in your all-purpose gear.
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