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3.3 Gem and Enchant Guide

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Moderators: Fridmarr, Worldie, Aergis, Sabindeus, majiben, lythac, Digren

Re: 3.3 Gem and Enchant Guide

Postby Digren » Wed Feb 17, 2010 9:48 pm

The stamina stacking conversion table is up to date.
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Re: 3.3 Gem and Enchant Guide

Postby Fenrìr » Sun Feb 21, 2010 9:54 pm

Hm, so after searching around and not coming up with anything, I'm curious about one thing after plugging in the gear/gems in question through Rawr.

My questions stems from something like Pillars of Might (ilvl 264) with a Red, Blue and Yellow socket and a 12 stam bonus and not finding a Nightmare's Tear equated out.

Would dropping a Shifting Dreadstone, Solid Majestic Zircon and a Nightmare's Tear yield the same results if not slightly better in terms of EH over straight Solid Majestic Zircons?

Obviously you can only get away with this once but if the payout for that one time is worth it, I feel it should be listed out there.
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Re: 3.3 Gem and Enchant Guide

Postby Digren » Mon Feb 22, 2010 9:52 am

Fenrìr wrote:Hm, so after searching around and not coming up with anything, I'm curious about one thing after plugging in the gear/gems in question through Rawr.

My questions stems from something like Pillars of Might (ilvl 264) with a Red, Blue and Yellow socket and a 12 stam bonus and not finding a Nightmare's Tear equated out.

Would dropping a Shifting Dreadstone, Solid Majestic Zircon and a Nightmare's Tear yield the same results if not slightly better in terms of EH over straight Solid Majestic Zircons?

Obviously you can only get away with this once but if the payout for that one time is worth it, I feel it should be listed out there.


The existing suggestion for a tank with iLvl 264 gear:
- Solid Majestic Zircon (30 sta)
- Solid Majestic Zircon (30 sta)
- Solid Majestic Zircon (30 sta)
Net: 90 stamina, which is about 1091 health

Your suggestion for a tank with iLvl 264 gear:
- Shifting Dreadstone (10 agi, 15 sta)
- Solid Majestic Zircon (30 sta)
- Nightmare Tear (10 agi, 10 sta)
- Socket bonus (12 sta)
Net: 67 stamina plus 40 armor, which is in a pure physical mitigatable fight the equivalent of about 856 health (less for fights with any magic component)

So no, it doesn't yield the same or better EH.
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Re: 3.3 Gem and Enchant Guide

Postby yappo » Mon Feb 22, 2010 10:14 am

When, if ever, would Armsman make a comeback for a 'generic' pally tank?

My question is based on having read somewhere (possibly here, but not certain) that dps-spec dps scales better with gear compared to tank-spec dps. As tank threat to a major extent is based on the underlying dps it seems reasonable that at some point maintaining threat would become impossible.

Now, if the answer is: at an average ilevel 400 given the current mechanism, then that answer is in reality: never. But if the lines cross at, say ilevel 280, then we arguably have a point at which Armsman becomes the BiS enchant for gloves.
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Re: 3.3 Gem and Enchant Guide

Postby Digren » Mon Feb 22, 2010 3:28 pm

yappo wrote:When, if ever, would Armsman make a comeback for a 'generic' pally tank?

My question is based on having read somewhere (possibly here, but not certain) that dps-spec dps scales better with gear compared to tank-spec dps. As tank threat to a major extent is based on the underlying dps it seems reasonable that at some point maintaining threat would become impossible.

Now, if the answer is: at an average ilevel 400 given the current mechanism, then that answer is in reality: never. But if the lines cross at, say ilevel 280, then we arguably have a point at which Armsman becomes the BiS enchant for gloves.

That's a Theck question, well worth posting in its own thread in the advanced forum. :P
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Re: 3.3 Gem and Enchant Guide

Postby Rhiannon » Sun Mar 21, 2010 5:59 pm

From the OP: "Caution, never drop below 540 defense! Sometimes you may have to skip a low-cost stamina option to stay uncrittable." As far as I'm aware resilience still counts towards crit reduction in PvE as well as PvP, and as the stam/resilience shoulder enchant is one of the recommended options perhaps there should be a note about only needing 536 defense if you're using that.
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Re: 3.3 Gem and Enchant Guide

Postby chinoquezada » Mon Mar 22, 2010 5:52 am

Rhiannon wrote:From the OP: "Caution, never drop below 540 defense! Sometimes you may have to skip a low-cost stamina option to stay uncrittable." As far as I'm aware resilience still counts towards crit reduction in PvE as well as PvP, and as the stam/resilience shoulder enchant is one of the recommended options perhaps there should be a note about only needing 536 defense if you're using that.


Good clarification to put in imho. I, for one, had totally forgot about the fact I had that extra uncrittability from the 15resil.
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Re: 3.3 Gem and Enchant Guide

Postby Digren » Mon Mar 22, 2010 9:29 am

Rhiannon wrote:From the OP: "Caution, never drop below 540 defense! Sometimes you may have to skip a low-cost stamina option to stay uncrittable." As far as I'm aware resilience still counts towards crit reduction in PvE as well as PvP, and as the stam/resilience shoulder enchant is one of the recommended options perhaps there should be a note about only needing 536 defense if you're using that.

Indeed. However, defense also affects the heal provided by Argent Defender, though that degrades linearly (meaning that 536 defense yields a heal that is 536/540 as good as 540 defense). More importantly, I hesitate to say "you can use resilience to cover a defense gap" because someone out there would decide that he/she could then tank in PVP gear.

I'll work on better wording, but for now consider that a nuance perhaps too subtle for a general guide. Those of you who know what's best for yourself can rely on the PVP shoulder resilience if required.

Actually, if you rely on the resilience, the PVP shoulder enchant becomes one of the best (i.e. lowest cost) stamina stacking options. The ratio used in my table assumes the resilience is valueless; were it to have value then the "loss" when switching from the def/dodge enchant is reduced.

8)
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Re: 3.3 Gem and Enchant Guide

Postby Thanistor » Mon Mar 22, 2010 11:08 am

Digren wrote:However, defense also affects the heal provided by Argent Defender, though that degrades linearly (meaning that 536 defense yields a heal that is 536/540 as good as 540 defense).



Isn't the heal based on the defense we get from gear, and not the base 400? So it woudl actually be 136/140 as good?
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Re: 3.3 Gem and Enchant Guide

Postby Digren » Mon Mar 22, 2010 11:21 am

Thanistor wrote:
Digren wrote:However, defense also affects the heal provided by Argent Defender, though that degrades linearly (meaning that 536 defense yields a heal that is 536/540 as good as 540 defense).



Isn't the heal based on the defense we get from gear, and not the base 400? So it woudl actually be 136/140 as good?

Oops, yeah, you're right.
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Re: 3.3 Gem and Enchant Guide

Postby Thanistor » Mon Mar 22, 2010 11:47 am

Cool. In any event, it was "close enough" for the real world , but I wanted to be sure myself, and for your excellent guide.
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Re: 3.3 Gem and Enchant Guide

Postby Martinii » Mon Apr 12, 2010 8:18 pm

I just want to thank Digren and all the other posters. This has been an invaluable guide as I gear my way to the back end of ICC.

/cheer!
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Re: 3.3 Gem and Enchant Guide

Postby Altais » Mon Apr 19, 2010 5:59 am

Okay, I feel like I just need some clarification on gemming.

My gear is pretty much all 264's minus a few 251's and for a while, I was just matching Gem's to match the bonus for my Paladin. Then I read things like this...

"ToC Hard / Icecrown Citadel? / End Game. Match socket colors only when the bonus is +12 stamina."

So, I only have 2 items with a 12 STAM socket bonus and that's my chest and my helmet. It said to weigh the benefits of the bonus towards the non-blue sockets so in my chest, it has a RED, YELLOW, and BLUE socket making the stam bonus for the other 2 gems 6 STAM from what I read. Well, if an item only has 2 sockets (Say.. a red and blue) but has a +9 STAM bonus... would I not want to gem for that bonus being that it would equal a +9 STAM bonus to the red socket vs. +6 for the +12 STAM bonus?

Then I see this...

"Always match blue sockets, no matter how good or bad the bonus may be. The whole point is to stack stamina, right? Bonuses attached to blue sockets are freebies."

So this raises my question about items with 1 socket and say... a 6 STAM bonus. Should I just be sticking 30 STAM gems anyway? Or should I be going after the bonuses on single socket items that aren't blue?

Please help clarify!
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Re: 3.3 Gem and Enchant Guide

Postby inthedrops » Mon Apr 19, 2010 7:08 am

Altais wrote:Then I see this...

"Always match blue sockets, no matter how good or bad the bonus may be. The whole point is to stack stamina, right? Bonuses attached to blue sockets are freebies."

Please help clarify!


The guide is referring to an item which has a single socket, which is blue. It's saying throw a stam gem in it and congratulate yourself on getting a free socket bonus (free as in, one you didn't have to sacrifice stamina stacking for).
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Re: 3.3 Gem and Enchant Guide

Postby Altais » Mon Apr 19, 2010 7:26 am

Well I got that... my question is what if the socket it red? Should I throw a 10 AGIL 15 STAM in there just to get the 21 STAM total? OR just do a 30 STAM gem..
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