Defense rating diminishing returns?

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Defense rating diminishing returns?

Postby ZombieRitual » Fri Feb 20, 2009 2:10 pm

Since +defense is great due to spreading out the diminishing returns by increasing dodge, parry, and block at the same time, going past 540 is not wasteful like it once was. However, I'm curious if there's diminishing returns on defense rating. I know you gradually get less dodge, block, and parry from their respective ratings, but do you get less defense from defense rating as you get more of it?
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Postby KysenMurrin » Fri Feb 20, 2009 2:23 pm

No. Diminishing returns are applied only to your chance to dodge, parry, or be missed.
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Postby Valerius » Fri Feb 20, 2009 2:29 pm

Not as such. 4.92 Def. Rating = 1 Defense Skill no matter how high you go. However, you neglected to mention that Def. Skill (and consequently Def. Rating) also increase your chance to be missed by a mob. This is where Diminishing Returns hits Defense Rating the hardest, becaue the DR on Miss is punative (someting like 1.6% DR at 6% Chance to be missed).

On other words, if your character sheet says that your Defense skill is adding 6% to your chance to be missed (in the tooltip) giving a theoretical total of 11% miss from Defense then you are actually somewhere around 9.4% or so Miss Chance.
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Postby halfviking » Fri Feb 20, 2009 4:21 pm

Valerius wrote:Not as such. 4.92 Def. Rating = 1 Defense Skill no matter how high you go. However, you neglected to mention that Def. Skill (and consequently Def. Rating) also increase your chance to be missed by a mob. This is where Diminishing Returns hits Defense Rating the hardest, becaue the DR on Miss is punative (someting like 1.6% DR at 6% Chance to be missed).

On other words, if your character sheet says that your Defense skill is adding 6% to your chance to be missed (in the tooltip) giving a theoretical total of 11% miss from Defense then you are actually somewhere around 9.4% or so Miss Chance.


Are you saying that Blizz doesn't take DR into account when displaying the tool tips?
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Postby Mozen » Fri Feb 20, 2009 7:00 pm

I read somewhere on this forum that tooltips are before DR, character sheet numbers are after DR.

Dodge: 21.09% <-- real dodge after DR
Tooltip: 184 dodge rating can raise 4.68% dodge chance (before diminishing returns)
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Postby fiorina » Fri Feb 20, 2009 9:05 pm

Armory and char screen shows same values for me.

Only difference is that char screen is showing avoidance against lvl80 opponent (thus bit higher)

I am using an addon to show me potential DR values.
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Postby Valerius » Sun Feb 22, 2009 2:41 pm

halfviking wrote:
Valerius wrote:Not as such. 4.92 Def. Rating = 1 Defense Skill no matter how high you go. However, you neglected to mention that Def. Skill (and consequently Def. Rating) also increase your chance to be missed by a mob. This is where Diminishing Returns hits Defense Rating the hardest, becaue the DR on Miss is punative (someting like 1.6% DR at 6% Chance to be missed).

On other words, if your character sheet says that your Defense skill is adding 6% to your chance to be missed (in the tooltip) giving a theoretical total of 11% miss from Defense then you are actually somewhere around 9.4% or so Miss Chance.


Are you saying that Blizz doesn't take DR into account when displaying the tool tips?


That is correct. Tooltips do not include DR, numbers on the character sheet do.
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Postby gregorian » Sun Feb 22, 2009 11:35 pm

Valerius wrote:
halfviking wrote:
Valerius wrote:Not as such. 4.92 Def. Rating = 1 Defense Skill no matter how high you go. However, you neglected to mention that Def. Skill (and consequently Def. Rating) also increase your chance to be missed by a mob. This is where Diminishing Returns hits Defense Rating the hardest, becaue the DR on Miss is punative (someting like 1.6% DR at 6% Chance to be missed).

On other words, if your character sheet says that your Defense skill is adding 6% to your chance to be missed (in the tooltip) giving a theoretical total of 11% miss from Defense then you are actually somewhere around 9.4% or so Miss Chance.


Are you saying that Blizz doesn't take DR into account when displaying the tool tips?


That is correct. Tooltips do not include DR, numbers on the character sheet do.


There should be no confusion here. there is no display of chance to be missed. the 5+% value you see when you hover over your defense skill is actually the crit reduction value, not the added d/p/b or miss values. crit reduction is the only stat you can rely on to be accurate because the other benefits from defense are integrated into their respective families on the character page (d/p/b).

d/p/b values have their own displays, and individually show the percentages corrected for diminishing returns even after including the respective bonuses from defense.

therefore chance to be missed is the only value that is not represented accurately by blizzard's UI. you have to look at the crit reduction value and assume a much reduced value (due to DR) off of that.
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Postby Valerius » Mon Feb 23, 2009 7:32 am

gregorian wrote:
Valerius wrote:
halfviking wrote:
Valerius wrote:Not as such. 4.92 Def. Rating = 1 Defense Skill no matter how high you go. However, you neglected to mention that Def. Skill (and consequently Def. Rating) also increase your chance to be missed by a mob. This is where Diminishing Returns hits Defense Rating the hardest, becaue the DR on Miss is punative (someting like 1.6% DR at 6% Chance to be missed).

On other words, if your character sheet says that your Defense skill is adding 6% to your chance to be missed (in the tooltip) giving a theoretical total of 11% miss from Defense then you are actually somewhere around 9.4% or so Miss Chance.


Are you saying that Blizz doesn't take DR into account when displaying the tool tips?


That is correct. Tooltips do not include DR, numbers on the character sheet do.


There should be no confusion here. there is no display of chance to be missed. the 5+% value you see when you hover over your defense skill is actually the crit reduction value, not the added d/p/b or miss values. crit reduction is the only stat you can rely on to be accurate because the other benefits from defense are integrated into their respective families on the character page (d/p/b).

d/p/b values have their own displays, and individually show the percentages corrected for diminishing returns even after including the respective bonuses from defense.

therefore chance to be missed is the only value that is not represented accurately by blizzard's UI. you have to look at the crit reduction value and assume a much reduced value (due to DR) off of that.


I hate to argue semantics, but the "crit reduction" number you're referencing actually says "Decreases chance to be hit and critically hit by X%", so it does include the extra chance to be missed. It's simply not completely accurate because DR is not factored into the tooltips
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