Is Heavy Borean Armor Kit the best universal buff to gloves?

Get help with your character's gear

Moderators: Fridmarr, Worldie, Sabindeus, Aergis, lythac, Digren, majiben

What is the best universal buff for glove slot.

Heavy Borean Armor Kit
52
28%
Armsmen
84
45%
Precision
10
5%
Expertise
4
2%
Crusher
1
1%
Exceptional Spellpower
1
1%
15 strength
16
9%
20 Agility
12
6%
240 armor
7
4%
 
Total votes : 187

Postby Digren » Fri Jan 02, 2009 3:57 pm

I have armsmen on my current gloves because an enchanter friend gave me a scroll of it for free (and I thanked him and took it rather than explain that it wasn't my best option). I had the sta kit on my gloves at the time.

Then, a day later, I got new gloves. Since I still had the scroll in my inventory, it went right on them. I haven't troubled to replace it yet. If I did, I'd put the stamina kit back on.
User avatar
Digren
Moderator
 
Posts: 1401
Joined: Sat Jul 26, 2008 2:41 pm

Postby Modal » Sat Jan 03, 2009 2:01 pm

240 armor is an excellent choice. I've got plenty of stam and not much bonus armor on my gear at the moment, so it's definitely the way to go for me. Who needs threat right now?
Image
Modal
 
Posts: 188
Joined: Thu Jan 24, 2008 1:36 am

Postby Passionario » Sat Jan 03, 2009 5:01 pm

Marihan wrote:maybe it just me but i prefer Hand-Mounted Pyro Rocket

I wholeheartedly support this option.
If you are not the flame, you're the fuel.
User avatar
Passionario
 
Posts: 2417
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2007 2:52 am

Postby Threatco » Sat Jan 03, 2009 10:26 pm

240 armor is an excellent choice. I've got plenty of stam and not much bonus armor on my gear at the moment, so it's definitely the way to go for me. Who needs threat right now?


Anyone have any idea if its possible for 240 armor to provide more eh then the stam to gloves? I assume you need to have low armor high hp ratio to make it worth it?
Guild Leader of <Oblivion> on Arthas (PvP) US.
Glory of the Icecrown Raider 10 man 03/18/10
Glory of the Ulduar Raider 10 man 08/17/09.
Limitation strictly defined by motivation.
User avatar
Threatco
 
Posts: 855
Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2008 5:54 am
Location: Moncton, NB

Postby Martie » Sun Jan 04, 2009 1:20 am

Threatco wrote:
240 armor is an excellent choice. I've got plenty of stam and not much bonus armor on my gear at the moment, so it's definitely the way to go for me. Who needs threat right now?


Anyone have any idea if its possible for 240 armor to provide more eh then the stam to gloves? I assume you need to have low armor high hp ratio to make it worth it?


While I'm an advocate of the effective health way of thinking, I am also familiar enough with numbers to know that blocking makes the results different, and tricky to judge.

Apart from that, I gave an indication of what % damage reduction the 240 armor gives in an earlier post. I got the number by comparing my own armor's effect and that of my brother, a warrior main tank. We were 232 armor apart when I checked, and we've tanked naxx 25man together.
(His and my current armory. Gear changed a bit since I last checked.)

Now, I'm going to ignore raid buffs for the moment, since I cannot seem to find a trustworthy source for what dr% you get for what armor level.

So, 27k health, armor rising from 24212 to 24486 (I used these numbers because those are what the armory pages give. They do not represent the exact results of a 240 armor enchant, but they do give an indication.) increases my DR from 61.38% to 61.65%. It increases my effective health from 27000*(1/(1-0.6138))=69912 to 27000*(1/(1-0.6165))=70404, an increase of 492.

At that same armor of 24212, the 210ish health that 18 stamina (12% talents, 10% kings, I have no clue how they add up and am too lazy to log in to check. Again, an estimation.) gives you is worth 210*(1/(1-0.6138))=544 effective health.

When taking raidbuffs into consideration, I think it's quite likely that 240 armor gives you more effective health then 18 stamina.

I'm not completely sure, but I think that 240 armor is always worth the same effective health, as long as stamina stays the same, of course.

(Disclaimer: I rounded numbers to what I thought appropriate when I thought it appropriate.)
I'm about to drop the hammer...
...and dispense some indiscriminate justice!

This is my armory profile
Martie
 
Posts: 167
Joined: Tue Jul 29, 2008 9:27 pm

Postby Modal » Sun Jan 04, 2009 6:19 pm

Rawr.tankadin shows 240 armor coming out way, way ahead of 18 stamina in terms of EH for my toon. ymmv, and I haven't bothered to double-check the math since it agrees with my intuitive judgment.
Image
Modal
 
Posts: 188
Joined: Thu Jan 24, 2008 1:36 am

Postby Zargon » Sun Jan 04, 2009 7:47 pm

Personally, i went for Armsman. I'm a casual player in guild of softcore raiders. My computer can't handle a raiding environment, but I love actually being able to still instance and group with friends and guildies and do my job. The Armsman enchant will help me in actually keeping aggro once they're in their raid gear doing more lawldps than i could pull threat off normally. Hell, I'm already playing catch-up since I mostly just dick around instead of leveling or questing. I just hit 79 the other day.
User avatar
Zargon
 
Posts: 13
Joined: Thu Aug 28, 2008 2:59 pm
Location: somewhere that you're not

Postby Levantine » Sun Jan 04, 2009 8:41 pm

Armsman, because if I get Rune Strike starved I cap my DPS and every little bit helps.

PS, fuck you and your shitty design, Blizzard.
User avatar
Levantine
 
Posts: 7367
Joined: Fri Oct 26, 2007 6:48 pm
Location: NQ, Aus

Postby fuzzygeek » Sun Jan 04, 2009 9:50 pm

Levantine wrote:PS, fuck you and your shitty design, Blizzard.


One of the things that struck me while playing my warrior alt (who predates my paladin alt cum main), is how well designed the warrior class (and their glyphs) are. There are all kinds of neat little interactions with their abilities (shield slam, dstate/revenge, crit blocks etc) that paladins just don't have. Maybe in a couple years we'll have the same depth of mechanics.

On topic: I use stam to gloves because I'm silly that way, but I've never been in a situation where I thought, "man, I sure could use some more parry or strength." I'm usually not in a situation where I think, "man I'm glad I've got 200 more hp," but it comes in handy betimes. I'm definitely putting str on Gauntlets of the Disobedient if I pick them up.

Current content is tuned down to the point where you have a lot of latitude and choice over how you want your gear to work. This is both good and bad, but may also change in the next wave of content.
Image
User avatar
fuzzygeek
Maintankadonor
 
Posts: 3447
Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2007 1:58 pm

Postby Elsie » Mon Jan 05, 2009 2:25 am

So, 27k health, armor rising from 24212 to 24486 (I used these numbers because those are what the armory pages give. They do not represent the exact results of a 240 armor enchant, but they do give an indication.) increases my DR from 61.38% to 61.65%. It increases my effective health from 27000*(1/(1-0.6138))=69912 to 27000*(1/(1-0.6165))=70404, an increase of 492.

At that same armor of 24212, the 210ish health that 18 stamina (12% talents, 10% kings, I have no clue how they add up and am too lazy to log in to check. Again, an estimation.) gives you is worth 210*(1/(1-0.6138))=544 effective health.

This is wrong because it doesn't take into account percentage of damage taken as magical. The analysis is wrong because it also doesn't account for armor and agility gains from raid buffs (strength of earth, mark of the wild, kings).
User avatar
Elsie
 
Posts: 2248
Joined: Sat Jan 12, 2008 11:12 pm

Postby tuberon » Mon Jan 05, 2009 5:51 am

Majiben wrote:
Tuberon wrote:Best glove enchant:

Blacksmithing:Socket Gloves
Not an enchant.


That's the point, you can get even more out of the gloves.

Basic 24 stam gem + 18 stam armor kit = 42 stam to gloves, for cheap :P

Does help to be a blacksmith, I hear. *cough*
Warning: Above poster makes no claims to validity or sanity of said post.

Also... cake.
User avatar
tuberon
Maintankadonor
 
Posts: 253
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2007 8:46 pm
Location: US-Zul'jin

Postby daemonym » Mon Jan 05, 2009 7:32 am

currently i have 15 strength because i have the mats for it in bulk still, but once i start tanking (no raid guild needs a tank on my server it seems) i'll be rocking 240 armor. i wish i could rock massive armor like a bear with silly BV at the same time =)
Again. What grim vision this? Blood stained tomb, beer cans, and piss. This. Is no life...for a god.

Stokpile/Zurathustra of Ysera-US, Horde
Makin the WoW gold blog http://theahpile.blogspot.com/
I have 2 million gold. http://theahpile.blogspot.com/2011/05/i-have-2-million-gold.html
Total as of 5-3-11: 2,064,000g
User avatar
daemonym
 
Posts: 1499
Joined: Mon Sep 01, 2008 10:05 pm
Location: With Cats on Mars

Postby Thels » Mon Jan 05, 2009 7:41 am

Nobody will disagree that the extra socket on gloves are a useful boon. However, they don't interfere with the regular enchant, and therefor have no meaning in the current discussion.

I was planning on putting Armsman on my gloves, since it seemed like the tank enchant. However, this thread has made me reconsider.

As for the EH issue, taking 24k armor and 32k health+bv:

EH = HP * (Armor + 16635) / 16635

EH = 32221 * (24000 + 16635) / 16635 = 78707,56 (18 stamina)

EH = 32000 * (24264 + 16635) / 16635 = 78675,56 (240 armor)

So with those values, stamina wins the fight, but it's reasonably close, and results can vary by gear. In addition:

Extra stamina increases your effective health, but doesn't increase your mitigation, so it doesn't actually help your healers, it just gives them a wider gap.

Extra armor increases your mitigation as well, but against physical attacks only. It's completely useless against casters.

If you're on of the "I MT everything" types, then stamina is a clear winner, as you'll need the help when facing magic bosses.

If your guild places the best tank at the job, then most likely there'll be a DK or maybe warrior tanking the magic bosses, and you should be fine.

Me personally I'll probably need all the avoidance I can get to get block capped, so I guess I'll be running with the Agility enchant for now. If TPS becomes an issue, Armsman seems the logical choice.
ImageImage
User avatar
Thels
 
Posts: 1233
Joined: Tue May 15, 2007 7:30 am
Location: The Netherlands

Postby Levantine » Mon Jan 05, 2009 9:12 am

fuzzygeek wrote:
Levantine wrote:PS, fuck you and your shitty design, Blizzard.


One of the things that struck me while playing my warrior alt (who predates my paladin alt cum main), is how well designed the warrior class (and their glyphs) are. There are all kinds of neat little interactions with their abilities (shield slam, dstate/revenge, crit blocks etc) that paladins just don't have. Maybe in a couple years we'll have the same depth of mechanics.


Warriors are very well designed. Death Knights are 100% reliant on Rune Strike. Without it proccing a lot, our threat is abysmal.
User avatar
Levantine
 
Posts: 7367
Joined: Fri Oct 26, 2007 6:48 pm
Location: NQ, Aus

Postby Garath.Gorefiend » Tue Jan 06, 2009 9:13 am

This is a silly discussion.

Face it, the best enchant on gloves is going to highly depend on a number of factors:

1) What tank class you play
2) What tanking role (MT/OT)
3) What content your tanking
4) What your current gear level is at
5) What changes Blizzard makes
6) Personal Preference.

Currently, due to SoL threat and double ShoR, paladin threat is thru the roof. That will change in patch 3.08 and we have yet to see what the full impact will be on our TPS.

If your just tanking heroics, then you won't require extra threat, so you will probably focus on a DPS or EH enchant.

Which one you pick will depend on your gear.

If your stamina is low, then a stamina enchant may win out.

I generally rate armor enchants low as an option since they do not benefit from class magnifiers.

If your happy with your EH and want to generate more threat/dps, then number crunching shows clearly that hit rating has a bigger effect on paladin DPS and threat than expertise does, so if your hit rating is low, then Precision may well win out.

If you want to block a bit more and increase AP then its Str.

BUT...if you are tanking Malygos, then its all about not threat-capping your DPS in phase 1, and building a huge threat lead, so for current high end content, Armsman wins out.

2% threat increase is greater than anything else.

As Ulduar and the rest of the end-game content comes out, I fully believe that all tanks will indeed be challenged to generate enough threat to not cap their DPS.

Malygos is probably just a prelude of things to come.
Garath.Gorefiend
 
Posts: 153
Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2008 2:07 pm

Postby majiben » Tue Jan 06, 2009 1:02 pm

Should also mention that 15 str will provide more tps than hit or expertise for our current gear levels.

I also agree that magylos is a view of fights to come.
Amirya wrote:some bizarre lovechild of Hawking, Einstein, and Theck
User avatar
majiben
Moderator
 
Posts: 5384
Joined: Fri Aug 22, 2008 4:37 pm
Location: Retired

Postby steadypal » Fri Jan 16, 2009 11:05 am

well, what is new in the xpac?

just the 18stam armor kit right??



before the xpac wasnt 2% threat the hands down enchant to get for hands?

i dont see how 15str, or the armor, or the agi can even be considered? wait agi in bc was 15 right? im not sure,,,


but anyways, if 2% threat in bc was that much better, i'd think same enchant with 10parry would still be king to other enchants or am i wrong?


is ppl knocking it down purely on threat not being an issue anymore?
steadypal
 
Posts: 662
Joined: Sat Mar 15, 2008 12:28 pm

Postby Dorvan » Fri Jan 16, 2009 11:34 am

steadypal wrote:is ppl knocking it down purely on threat not being an issue anymore?


This. 2% threat was a relatively popular enchant because having adequate threat was an issue for Tankadins, especially in high end content. In WotLK, tanks are leaps and bounds ahead of DPS, so 2% threat is considerably less appealing, especially since it doesn't at least provide a little DPS boost as well or anything.
Image

WHAT WOULD BEST DESCRIBE YOUR PERSONALITY?
Moonlight Sonata Techno Remix
Scriggle - 85 Fire Mage
Fizzmore - 81 Mut Rogue
Adorania - 80 Disc Priest
User avatar
Dorvan
Maintankadonor
 
Posts: 5668
Joined: Wed Apr 04, 2007 3:28 pm

Postby majiben » Sat Jan 17, 2009 1:06 am

Actually for TBC post 3.0 +15 str was right on the heels of +2% threat for most tanks. It also has the added bonus of providing mitigation. Pure threat stats have no business being considered (Armsman is not pure threat due to the parry rating) when there is no time or place that threat is an issue. Don't say Magylos because I think you'll find most people here have tanked him their normal gear. I doubt we'll ever come to a time where have to wear our threat gear for more than one fight per tier if even that. People looking for threat stats for enchants And gear are still stuck in a TBC mindset where you had to squeeze out every ounce at the cost of survival.
Amirya wrote:some bizarre lovechild of Hawking, Einstein, and Theck
User avatar
majiben
Moderator
 
Posts: 5384
Joined: Fri Aug 22, 2008 4:37 pm
Location: Retired

Postby Enkal » Tue Jan 20, 2009 6:30 am

I prefer hit on gloves mainly since a missed hit is no damage and no threat. 179 hitrating atm 8)
Image
User avatar
Enkal
 
Posts: 560
Joined: Sat Jul 14, 2007 3:23 am
Location: Sweden

Postby majiben » Tue Jan 20, 2009 6:38 am

+15 str is more threat on average and some mitigation. As is armsman. Threat is no reason to get hit. Saying that you don't like seeing misses and screw the opportunity loss is what you really mean.
Amirya wrote:some bizarre lovechild of Hawking, Einstein, and Theck
User avatar
majiben
Moderator
 
Posts: 5384
Joined: Fri Aug 22, 2008 4:37 pm
Location: Retired

Postby Enkal » Tue Jan 20, 2009 6:56 am

Majiben wrote:+15 str is more threat on average and some mitigation. As is armsman. Threat is no reason to get hit. Saying that you don't like seeing misses and screw the opportunity loss is what you really mean.


It's in my train of thought that having a solid balance between stats is the best. I dont go for all stamina, all avoidance or all threat. Balance is my game. :)

Looking at my latest WWS stats my miss rate is about 1-3% for all skills except swing that has 6.3% mainly from boss parry. Balanced enough for me. :)
Image
User avatar
Enkal
 
Posts: 560
Joined: Sat Jul 14, 2007 3:23 am
Location: Sweden

Postby Enkal » Tue Jan 20, 2009 6:56 am

Bah double post, somebody remove this or gimme a little x-button to delete it myself! :P
Last edited by Enkal on Wed Jan 21, 2009 12:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
Image
User avatar
Enkal
 
Posts: 560
Joined: Sat Jul 14, 2007 3:23 am
Location: Sweden

Postby Pendulum » Tue Jan 20, 2009 9:04 am

Armsmen, because doing 3D Sarth as an add tank you need every little bit of extra threat you can get. The parry is meh, but it's a cheapie enchant. I'll probably get another pair of gloves for 18 stam or 240 armor.
User avatar
Pendulum
 
Posts: 12
Joined: Mon Jan 19, 2009 6:24 am

Postby Akairos » Wed Jan 21, 2009 12:48 pm

I'd say armsman overall, as that 2% scales with gear and your max threat while at the same time providing avoidance, even if somewhat minor........Alsoitisthecheapestone.
>_>
<_<
The subtle tongue, the decieving guile,
they fail when the broadswords sing
Come in an die dogs...I was a man before I was king!
Maintankadin of <Inconceivable>
Akairos
 
Posts: 65
Joined: Thu Dec 18, 2008 3:23 pm
Location: JOLLY OL' ENGLAND

PreviousNext

Return to Gear Discussions and Advice

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

Who is online

In total there is 1 user online :: 0 registered, 0 hidden and 1 guest (based on users active over the past 5 minutes)
Most users ever online was 380 on Tue Oct 14, 2008 6:28 pm

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest