[5.0.5] Shadow Priest

Ret, Holy, PVP, etc

Moderators: Fridmarr, Worldie, Aergis, Baelor

Re: [5.0.5] Shadow Priest

Postby alayire » Thu Nov 22, 2012 3:28 am

I'm wondering what you guys are doing on Elegon sparks (10 man).
I'm using FDCL and DI atm.
I've tried using VT into SWP into MB, then MF + whatever procs. Sometimes I get the spark very low like 10% just after MB, so I switch to the boss letting the dots kill it, but I find that unreliable, spark goes throw with like 1% life ..
I also tried leaving out VT, but if nothing procs, I'm left with just MF and that doesn't seem to cut it. Also .. I sometimes screw myself on MB using it on boss and it comes up late on spark(it seems like it never procs when I do it on boss).
I have not tried MS spam with MB yet. Should I do this instead of using dots?

Btw I'm using DI over TF because I feel like I have to recast my dots with the TF damage boost up to make it count, how are you guys making use of it?
alayire
 
Posts: 264
Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2008 4:43 am

Re: [5.0.5] Shadow Priest

Postby Worldie » Thu Nov 22, 2012 3:35 am

Assuming you want to maximise, you absolutely need ToF for Elegon. You can snipe a SWD on exploding adds in p1 for extra dps, and it will be more or less always up during spark phase, and you will also gain it for most of both pillar/add transitions.

In order to kill sparks up to wave 4/5 (never managed to kill wave 6 myself).
1) Try to save a 3 orbs DP
2) MB / Spike spam. Don't bother dotting, they die too quick.
3) Save FDCL procs for sparks
4) Use Cascade on boss
5) Eventually use shadowfiend / mindbender on last add you want to kill
6) If you find your dps is more than enough for certain waves, throw a ninja SWP on another add to fish for procs

This also works for Tsulong adds btw.
theckhd wrote:Fuck no, we've seen what you do to guilds. Just imagine what you could do to an entire country. Just visiting the US might be enough to make the southern states try to secede again.

halabar wrote:Noo.. you don't realize the problem. Worldie was to negative guild breaking energy like Bolvar is to the Scourge. If Worldie is removed, than someone must pick up that mantle, otherwise that negative guild breaking energy will run rampant, destroying all the servers.
User avatar
Worldie
Global Mod
 
Posts: 8676
Joined: Sun Sep 02, 2007 1:49 pm
Location: Italy

Re: [5.0.5] Shadow Priest

Postby alayire » Thu Nov 22, 2012 3:44 am

I'm helping DPS on the Proctector anyway, but I'm using Halo over Cascade to help the healers(they are sort of undergeared).
I don't think will be able to kill the 5'th spark, so we are doing only 4 (because 2 of our dps'ers just plain suck .. no other way to put it :( ).

But what do you do with your TOF buff, do you refresh dots right away(it seems like a waste of gcd's to me) or you just rely on the fact that you have it up enough till you have to put them up anyway?
DI can screw me up badly on Sparks from what I've seen since I can use the proc and then get left dry on the sparks.
alayire
 
Posts: 264
Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2008 4:43 am

Re: [5.0.5] Shadow Priest

Postby Worldie » Thu Nov 22, 2012 3:47 am

More or less just "ignore" ToF. I dont do anything special when it's on, I don't even track it. The loss of 2 GCDs which you could use on flay / spike depending on situation is generally not worth the damage gain on the 2 dots.
Also, if you time Halo properly (like, after a add explosion) it will heal people under 15% hp proccing ToF.

Remember that VT and SWP are no longer the biggest part of our DPS. Your top 3 damagers should be DP MB MF
theckhd wrote:Fuck no, we've seen what you do to guilds. Just imagine what you could do to an entire country. Just visiting the US might be enough to make the southern states try to secede again.

halabar wrote:Noo.. you don't realize the problem. Worldie was to negative guild breaking energy like Bolvar is to the Scourge. If Worldie is removed, than someone must pick up that mantle, otherwise that negative guild breaking energy will run rampant, destroying all the servers.
User avatar
Worldie
Global Mod
 
Posts: 8676
Joined: Sun Sep 02, 2007 1:49 pm
Location: Italy

Re: [5.0.5] Shadow Priest

Postby alayire » Thu Nov 22, 2012 4:14 am

yeah I Halo right after the explosion, but its CD doesn't synch with the Protector, so I might be losing some dps there I guess.
We haven't seen the last phase of Elegon yet and we can't get below 3 adds in Phase 1, but we've only got like 4 hours on the boss so far so .. I donno.

It sucks that Shadow is my offspec and I have suboptimal gear for it(since most of it is shared with the healing spec, but I'm mostly ok like at hit cap, just haste is not where it's supposed to be also lacking big on trinkets) so I don't know exactly where I should be at with my DPS. I still beat some of our dpsers which tells quite a sad story.
what are you guys pulling on normal fights?(not boosted like Elegon)
alayire
 
Posts: 264
Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2008 4:43 am

Re: [5.0.5] Shadow Priest

Postby JoeBravo » Thu Nov 22, 2012 4:17 am

Worldie wrote:More or less just "ignore" ToF. I dont do anything special when it's on, I don't even track it. The loss of 2 GCDs which you could use on flay / spike depending on situation is generally not worth the damage gain on the 2 dots.
Also, if you time Halo properly (like, after a add explosion) it will heal people under 15% hp proccing ToF.

Remember that VT and SWP are no longer the biggest part of our DPS. Your top 3 damagers should be DP MB MF


It's not total damage percentage that counts, but damage per execution time. for an elemental shaman a searing totem is ~3% of total damage, but it's the most damage I can do in 1 gcd (as long as it runs it's full duration)

I miss the DrDamage addon for this kind of stuff :(
JoeBravo / Joerojin / Ekibiogami / Cloverleaf / Yodin / Flidhais / Kuanti@ The Khalasar - Dragonblight EU
JoeBravo
 
Posts: 545
Joined: Sat Mar 15, 2008 1:19 am
Location: The Netherlands

Re: [5.0.5] Shadow Priest

Postby Worldie » Thu Nov 22, 2012 4:48 am

Just a view:

Image

Dots are less damage per cast than DP, MB and procced MS. Easy to math out. That's why you cast them only when every other skill has been cast.
theckhd wrote:Fuck no, we've seen what you do to guilds. Just imagine what you could do to an entire country. Just visiting the US might be enough to make the southern states try to secede again.

halabar wrote:Noo.. you don't realize the problem. Worldie was to negative guild breaking energy like Bolvar is to the Scourge. If Worldie is removed, than someone must pick up that mantle, otherwise that negative guild breaking energy will run rampant, destroying all the servers.
User avatar
Worldie
Global Mod
 
Posts: 8676
Joined: Sun Sep 02, 2007 1:49 pm
Location: Italy

Re: [5.0.5] Shadow Priest

Postby Levantine » Thu Nov 22, 2012 4:57 am

ITT: Worldie doesn't understand the concept of DPET

SWP and VT are both higher DPET than all nukes. The reason Mind Blast is a higher priority than dots is because of DP, not because it does a particularly impressive amount of damage.

I know this because I'm looking at simcraft results of both BIS heroic t14 and Schatze. Both say the opposite of what you're saying and suddenly the reason you constantly whine about doing poor single target dps is totally clear.
Last edited by Levantine on Thu Nov 22, 2012 4:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Levantine
 
Posts: 7367
Joined: Fri Oct 26, 2007 6:48 pm
Location: NQ, Aus

Re: [5.0.5] Shadow Priest

Postby Worldie » Thu Nov 22, 2012 4:58 am

No i totally dont know what DPET means :o
theckhd wrote:Fuck no, we've seen what you do to guilds. Just imagine what you could do to an entire country. Just visiting the US might be enough to make the southern states try to secede again.

halabar wrote:Noo.. you don't realize the problem. Worldie was to negative guild breaking energy like Bolvar is to the Scourge. If Worldie is removed, than someone must pick up that mantle, otherwise that negative guild breaking energy will run rampant, destroying all the servers.
User avatar
Worldie
Global Mod
 
Posts: 8676
Joined: Sun Sep 02, 2007 1:49 pm
Location: Italy

Re: [5.0.5] Shadow Priest

Postby Levantine » Thu Nov 22, 2012 5:04 am

Image
Image

DPET.
User avatar
Levantine
 
Posts: 7367
Joined: Fri Oct 26, 2007 6:48 pm
Location: NQ, Aus

Re: [5.0.5] Shadow Priest

Postby Worldie » Thu Nov 22, 2012 5:13 am

Wait... "damage per execute time" doesn't mean "damage done while in execute range"? °_°
theckhd wrote:Fuck no, we've seen what you do to guilds. Just imagine what you could do to an entire country. Just visiting the US might be enough to make the southern states try to secede again.

halabar wrote:Noo.. you don't realize the problem. Worldie was to negative guild breaking energy like Bolvar is to the Scourge. If Worldie is removed, than someone must pick up that mantle, otherwise that negative guild breaking energy will run rampant, destroying all the servers.
User avatar
Worldie
Global Mod
 
Posts: 8676
Joined: Sun Sep 02, 2007 1:49 pm
Location: Italy

Re: [5.0.5] Shadow Priest

Postby JoeBravo » Thu Nov 22, 2012 5:16 am

must. not. laugh...



I fail :'(
JoeBravo / Joerojin / Ekibiogami / Cloverleaf / Yodin / Flidhais / Kuanti@ The Khalasar - Dragonblight EU
JoeBravo
 
Posts: 545
Joined: Sat Mar 15, 2008 1:19 am
Location: The Netherlands

Re: [5.0.5] Shadow Priest

Postby Worldie » Thu Nov 22, 2012 5:25 am

So anyone explains me now why all the most common theorycraft sites all propose different theoryes and different talent choices?
theckhd wrote:Fuck no, we've seen what you do to guilds. Just imagine what you could do to an entire country. Just visiting the US might be enough to make the southern states try to secede again.

halabar wrote:Noo.. you don't realize the problem. Worldie was to negative guild breaking energy like Bolvar is to the Scourge. If Worldie is removed, than someone must pick up that mantle, otherwise that negative guild breaking energy will run rampant, destroying all the servers.
User avatar
Worldie
Global Mod
 
Posts: 8676
Joined: Sun Sep 02, 2007 1:49 pm
Location: Italy

Re: [5.0.5] Shadow Priest

Postby JoeBravo » Thu Nov 22, 2012 5:31 am

Worldie wrote:So anyone explains me now why all the most common theorycraft sites all propose different theoryes and different talent choices?


because not all common theorycraft sites are actually theorycrafting sites?
But I'm just following Binkensteins judgement on this. (he does the elemental shaman math. + most of the MoP healing haste breakpoint cards that you see around are his)

on that matter:
Binkenstein about caster dps haste: http://www.totemspot.com/vb/entry.php?b=71
JoeBravo / Joerojin / Ekibiogami / Cloverleaf / Yodin / Flidhais / Kuanti@ The Khalasar - Dragonblight EU
JoeBravo
 
Posts: 545
Joined: Sat Mar 15, 2008 1:19 am
Location: The Netherlands

Re: [5.0.5] Shadow Priest

Postby Worldie » Thu Nov 22, 2012 5:44 am

Well I really dont know which site to craft, I suppose How2Priest should be the most reliable nowadays since it "rises from the ashes of shadowpriest.com"

In which case, he does propose all damage spells before DoTs in the priority list.
theckhd wrote:Fuck no, we've seen what you do to guilds. Just imagine what you could do to an entire country. Just visiting the US might be enough to make the southern states try to secede again.

halabar wrote:Noo.. you don't realize the problem. Worldie was to negative guild breaking energy like Bolvar is to the Scourge. If Worldie is removed, than someone must pick up that mantle, otherwise that negative guild breaking energy will run rampant, destroying all the servers.
User avatar
Worldie
Global Mod
 
Posts: 8676
Joined: Sun Sep 02, 2007 1:49 pm
Location: Italy

Re: [5.0.5] Shadow Priest

Postby JoeBravo » Thu Nov 22, 2012 5:49 am

Worldie wrote:Well I really dont know which site to craft, I suppose How2Priest should be the most reliable nowadays since it "rises from the ashes of shadowpriest.com"

In which case, he does propose all damage spells before DoTs in the priority list.


checking this is simple: does he back it up with math and pretty graphs? :P

and even then, the graphs lev posted tell you all you need to know: go from top to bottom.

Anything that makes sure you can the highest one faster, can make it move up in priority though. That's where the math comes in.
Last edited by JoeBravo on Thu Nov 22, 2012 5:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
JoeBravo / Joerojin / Ekibiogami / Cloverleaf / Yodin / Flidhais / Kuanti@ The Khalasar - Dragonblight EU
JoeBravo
 
Posts: 545
Joined: Sat Mar 15, 2008 1:19 am
Location: The Netherlands

Re: [5.0.5] Shadow Priest

Postby alayire » Thu Nov 22, 2012 5:52 am

Levantine wrote:Image
Image

DPET.

Ahem.
In the case of recasting dots, before they actually expire doesn't that make DPET go down? Since you are actually cutting into the existing dots damage.
Since that's what I was asking here, is there any value to recasting my dots with ToF up for the damage increase?
alayire
 
Posts: 264
Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2008 4:43 am

Re: [5.0.5] Shadow Priest

Postby JoeBravo » Thu Nov 22, 2012 5:58 am

alayire wrote:
Levantine wrote: [pictures]
DPET.

Ahem.
In the case of recasting dots, before they actually expire doesn't that make DPET go down? Since you are actually cutting into the existing dots damage.
Since that's what I was asking here, is there any value to recasting my dots with ToF up for the damage increase?

you are right, it does
really depends on how much the total damage gain (on full duration) versus the damage lost by cutting it short is.

My best guess is finding out who helped on the simcraft spriest functions and what guide(s)he helped writing and use that.
JoeBravo / Joerojin / Ekibiogami / Cloverleaf / Yodin / Flidhais / Kuanti@ The Khalasar - Dragonblight EU
JoeBravo
 
Posts: 545
Joined: Sat Mar 15, 2008 1:19 am
Location: The Netherlands

Re: [5.0.5] Shadow Priest

Postby Worldie » Thu Nov 22, 2012 6:14 am

As far as math goes I believe it has been proved that, due to the Cata+ dot mechanic (dots continuing to tick if refreshed rather than having the tick timer resetted) the best moment to renew a dot is right before the last tick. Iirc it was something like 1.5 sec for VT and 0.5 for SWP
theckhd wrote:Fuck no, we've seen what you do to guilds. Just imagine what you could do to an entire country. Just visiting the US might be enough to make the southern states try to secede again.

halabar wrote:Noo.. you don't realize the problem. Worldie was to negative guild breaking energy like Bolvar is to the Scourge. If Worldie is removed, than someone must pick up that mantle, otherwise that negative guild breaking energy will run rampant, destroying all the servers.
User avatar
Worldie
Global Mod
 
Posts: 8676
Joined: Sun Sep 02, 2007 1:49 pm
Location: Italy

Re: [5.0.5] Shadow Priest

Postby Nooska » Thu Nov 22, 2012 6:28 am

I have to add that my favorite method of killing stuff os to land in the middle and use fear - tags everything and gives me several seconds to dot it up and apply my shield before I start killing for real. (Psyfiend helps a lot with that as well).

DS does have 24 yard range - I guess it may also have to do with it being similar to Glaive Throw which I am very used to as a hunter.

Edit: and that I missed about 3 pages worth of posts in replying.
Main Characters:
Nooska, Blood Elf BM/SV Hunter on Argent Dawn (EU)
Morosin, Bloody freezing orc death knight on Argent Dawn (EU)
Niisca, Shady forsaken "priest" on Argent Dawn (EU)

Keeper Emeritus of the BM hunters guide on Elitist Jerks and the wowhead version untill patch 5.3.
User avatar
Nooska
 
Posts: 1541
Joined: Sun Nov 27, 2011 10:55 am

Re: [5.0.5] Shadow Priest

Postby halabar » Thu Nov 22, 2012 12:24 pm

So I finally got my first piece of LFR tier last night (along with a few other upgrades, it was a good night), and after gemming and whatnot I was checking Mr Robot this morning, and was looking at other upgrades and...

Mr Robot is showing that getting another piece of tier is a ~22,000 point upgrade in their system. (Currently I'm at ~124k points in their system).

Is the 2-pc bonus that strong? I figured it was at least worth stepping down from a 489 to a 483 to make a set, but that number is huge.

Thoughts?

(Mindburn on Terenas US)

(and yeah, still need to reforge... was waiting until I finish all my LFRs as there's a few options where I still could get upgrades).
Amirya wrote:... because everyone needs a Catagonskin rug.

twinkfist wrote:i feel bad for the Mogu...having to deal with alcoholic bears.
User avatar
halabar
 
Posts: 6557
Joined: Fri Jun 08, 2007 8:21 am
Location: <in the guild that shall not be named>

Re: [5.0.5] Shadow Priest

Postby Skye1013 » Fri Nov 23, 2012 12:32 am

If it's a choice between MB or VT/SWP, then you'd do MB, then pop VT/SWP on the next gcd. You don't just sit around with VT/SWP not on the target because MB/MS/DP are higher damage. Especially if you're running DI/FDCL, because then you suddenly don't have a source for procs (meaning fewer MB/MS and as a result, fewer DP.)

If we were seriously putting all damage spells over dots... then we'd never cast dots and our rotation would be something along the lines of MS-MS-MS-MB, DP at 3 orbs.
"me no gay, me friends gay, me no like you call me gay, you dumb dumb" -bldavis
"Here are the values that I stand for: I stand for honesty, equality, kindness, compassion, treating people the way you wanna be treated, and helping those in need. To me, those are traditional values. That’s what I stand for." -Ellen Degeneres
"I'm not going to censor myself to comfort your ignorance." -Jon Stewart
Horde: Clopin Dylon Sharkbait Xiaman Metria Metapriest
Alliance: Schatze Aleks Deegee Baileyi Sotanaht Danfer Shazta Rawrsalot Roobyroo
User avatar
Skye1013
Maintankadonor
 
Posts: 3540
Joined: Tue May 18, 2010 5:47 am
Location: JBPH-Hickam, Hawaii

Re: [5.0.5] Shadow Priest

Postby Worldie » Fri Nov 23, 2012 5:21 am

It was pretty obvious MS was put over dots only with FDCL proc ;)
theckhd wrote:Fuck no, we've seen what you do to guilds. Just imagine what you could do to an entire country. Just visiting the US might be enough to make the southern states try to secede again.

halabar wrote:Noo.. you don't realize the problem. Worldie was to negative guild breaking energy like Bolvar is to the Scourge. If Worldie is removed, than someone must pick up that mantle, otherwise that negative guild breaking energy will run rampant, destroying all the servers.
User avatar
Worldie
Global Mod
 
Posts: 8676
Joined: Sun Sep 02, 2007 1:49 pm
Location: Italy

Re: [5.0.5] Shadow Priest

Postby Nooska » Fri Nov 23, 2012 6:59 am

So, what you are saying is that my firts notation;
^VT>^SW:P>DP3>MB*>MS*>MB>MF
is correct (*=instant, DI, FDCL and 2xMS respectively) - with the L90 in there dependant on what you used - for DS, in between MB and MF.
Main Characters:
Nooska, Blood Elf BM/SV Hunter on Argent Dawn (EU)
Morosin, Bloody freezing orc death knight on Argent Dawn (EU)
Niisca, Shady forsaken "priest" on Argent Dawn (EU)

Keeper Emeritus of the BM hunters guide on Elitist Jerks and the wowhead version untill patch 5.3.
User avatar
Nooska
 
Posts: 1541
Joined: Sun Nov 27, 2011 10:55 am

Re: [5.0.5] Shadow Priest

Postby alayire » Fri Nov 23, 2012 8:16 am

ahem, Nooska i don't think so.
DP3 has the largest DPET as you can see from Levies post. which sort of translates into 2 things:
since MB has a cooldown and besides execution phase is the only way to get orbs, MB should be put on cooldown as soon as it's up. with one exception, when you have 3 orbs.
this cuts into the second thing, DP3 should be put on cooldown as soon as it's up, because you run the chance of proccing MB if you don't. You could delay it one or more GCDs but you would then run into issues with MB if you proc too fast.

So that would mean DP3>MB>SWP>VT>*MS>MF excluding execution phase. looking at that DPET graph with best in slot that MIGHT change in the future.
I'm not exactly sure why Worldie would place MS proc over dots, unless you already have 2 charges meaning you could waste some charges. I'm always prioritising dots over MS, because once dots are up I have some gcds to do something else, but then again my dps is kind of low .. so what do I know :(
alayire
 
Posts: 264
Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2008 4:43 am

PreviousNext

Return to Off-specs & Other Classes

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Majestic-12 [Bot] and 1 guest

Who is online

In total there are 2 users online :: 1 registered, 0 hidden and 1 guest (based on users active over the past 5 minutes)
Most users ever online was 380 on Tue Oct 14, 2008 6:28 pm

Users browsing this forum: Majestic-12 [Bot] and 1 guest