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Re: Post your Frustrations.

PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 2:47 pm
by Worldie
Quick add me to id - msn - skype - something :P

Re: Post your Frustrations.

PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 3:05 pm
by Nooska
I'm reasonable at both ;-)

Multitarget = SW:P galore (and instant MBs) - throw in VT if there is time to add som einstant MS here and there.
Single target; ^SW:P>^VT>DP3>MB*>MS*>MB>MF
(* meaning instant from either proc or from double MS with glyph for MB)
Oh yeah, I use the L90 talent somewhere too - Divine Star I use - before MF

[Fatty Goatsteak] come at me!

Re: Post your Frustrations.

PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 3:37 pm
by Worldie
The proper ST priority for SP is DP3 > MB > MS (FDCL) > Cascade/Halo > SWP > VT > MF

Re: Post your Frustrations.

PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 3:40 pm
by halabar
Worldie wrote:The proper ST priority for SP is DP3 > MB > MS (FDCL) > Cascade/Halo > SWP > VT > MF


But you still wind up opening with the dots, and I only use MS on things like Elegon's sparks, since I'm specced for ToF/Bender instead of FDCL/DI, since I hate watching procs.

Also what a lot don't realize (nor did I until reading H2P) is that Halo has a sweet spot, after which damage goes back down. So Cascade is better if you can't reliably get into position to maximize Halo.

Re: Post your Frustrations.

PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 4:06 pm
by Worldie
Cascade is better more or less in all the fights in this tier since there's always positional requirement including being in melee range, where Cascade still does more damage than MF, while Halo barely hits for 16k or so.

The "max dps" spec is FDCL+ToF, however, this varies greatly from fight to fight. I change talents fairly often.

I also don't like FDCL and DI much, since they are RNG, and RNG is never good.

Re: Post your Frustrations.

PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 5:38 pm
by halabar
Worldie wrote:I also don't like FDCL and DI much, since they are RNG, and RNG is never good.


And if I were specced into both and looking for both those procs, I'd surely be standing in something that I shouldn't be... :lol:

Re: Post your Frustrations.

PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 5:53 pm
by Worldie
Well it's fairly hard to not notice the procs, considering they both get a overlay AND their buttons lights up like a christmas tree.

And yea but the SP threat is too far below the forum :cry:

Re: [5.0.5] Shadow Priest

PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 5:58 pm
by halabar
Hmm... there is a thread here... :o

Re: [5.0.5] Shadow Priest

PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 6:10 pm
by Worldie
It was hidden!

Re: [5.0.5] Shadow Priest

PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 6:11 pm
by Skye1013
It was like... 4th or 5th on the page :P

Re: [5.0.5] Shadow Priest

PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 6:12 pm
by Worldie
Yea but that's 3 clicks away from the Frustration thread.

Uhm thinking of it i'll move here that discussion, brb.

edit: Done, a bit thougher than i thought :P

Re: [5.0.5] Shadow Priest

PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 6:18 pm
by Worldie
Let's try to get some logs rolling.

For example:
http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-yoc4y ... =284&e=677
SK is a more or less ST fight. My simulated DPS is 73k. I'm doing 67k, there's 6k dps I'm missing but I can't figure out how.

Re: [5.0.5] Shadow Priest

PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 6:44 pm
by Levantine
ITT Worldie thinks he can play as optimally as a sim.

Heads up, you can't.

Re: [5.0.5] Shadow Priest

PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 4:28 am
by Nooska
And to answer the post in the frustration thread - I picked up DS because I have seen too many other spriests (well priests in general) pull 3 or 4 rooms with Halo. Cascade could work very well with aoeing ofcourse, but does it actually worn on singletarget as damage?

Re: [5.0.5] Shadow Priest

PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 4:28 am
by Nooska
And to answer the post in the frustration thread - I picked up DS because I have seen too many other spriests (well priests in general) pull 3 or 4 rooms with Halo. Cascade could work very well with aoeing ofcourse, but does it actually worn on singletarget as damage?

Re: [5.0.5] Shadow Priest

PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 8:33 am
by Worldie
Cascade has some weird behaviour sometimes that makes it be as bad as Halo.

But when it comes to raiding, its damage is just superior. Remember Divine Star also eats you a lot of GCDs.

Re: [5.0.5] Shadow Priest

PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 1:48 pm
by Nooska
Indeed, but as it just takes away from MF, I haven't found it so jarring - may be a leftover from pre 5.0 where MF was seriously just "ohh its better than not casting".

After doing my priority today, yeah, I don't do what I wrote, it's
DP3>PW:D>MS**>MB>VT>SW:P>DS>MF

**Being procced instant MS, and only if I have less than 2 stacks or the stack is about to run out, so I lose my instant MB if I don't cast it.

Talentwise I'm running FDCL and DI - mainly because I don't raid, so any time spent under 20% health is an almost instant kill at that point, so I wouldn't gain anything from ToF - also I likek the increased rate of MB, again because I don't raid the added DP means more healing as well.
Also, Forsaken Spriest is silly on the self healing front.

On another note, I am dubious about the haste(softcap)>crit>haste>mastery scheme, I have observed (though not loggeD) mastery proccing from itself, meaning mastery = crit for damage (I haven't noticed anything we have that procs from crit), and the more mastery the more its worth compared to crit (at 50% mastery you have a 25% chance of a double proc, so 50% mastery = 75% more damage - napkin style - while 50% crit is only 50% more damage napkin style (both averaged over time).
As a forsaken it also appears that if a Touch of the Grave proc occurs on the main tick, it will also happen on the mastery proc ticks (this is how I observed double procs).
I like haste, but with mastery being always on (rather than the pre 5.0 implementation) I am thinking haste(softcap)~> Mastery>Crit>Haste or even haste>crit at the end.
(granted I've done no simulations, and haven't checked, but my gutfeeling is that the sims don't allow double procs from mastery)

Re: [5.0.5] Shadow Priest

PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 1:52 pm
by Worldie
There is a theory (from a couple hi-lvl sp, lost somewhere on h2p) about mastery heavy playing with FDCL and DI (which can proc off mastery).

I tried it myself, came out not too differently from a normal haste/crit build, but very DoT reliant, meaning in any situation where you can't dot it falls behind a haste/crit build.

Re: [5.0.5] Shadow Priest

PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 2:00 pm
by Nooska
Oh, yeah, I think I'll stay with DS for L90 btw, if Cascade can be even worse than Halo in some situations - A "work related injury" of being a hunter for so many years, I refuse to use something that will pull unpredictably, thank you very much *eyes hunter pets from Naxx and Ulduar days*

Re: [5.0.5] Shadow Priest

PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 2:11 pm
by Worldie
Well the thing is, Cascade bounces on "stuff in combat".
So it has the following disadvantages:
1) Jumps on CCd targets and breaks CC
2) Can jump on mobs in combat with other players (even enemies) and get you in combat with them
3) Always jumps to the furthest targets first so due to range, might end up hitting stuff you didn't want to hit and not hitting stuff you want it to hit, you can only really control the first bounce.
4) Costs same amount of mana of Halo even having half the CD, thus draining your mana very fast if you can't keep VT up consistently.

Other than that, at least from raiding perspective, there's almost no fight where you are constantly in melee range to warrant the use of Divine Star. I suppose if you play only solo and don't even join hcs / lfr, it's probably better, even though mobs barely reach me nowadays when I'm on my own.

Re: [5.0.5] Shadow Priest

PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2012 3:28 am
by alayire
I'm wondering what you guys are doing on Elegon sparks (10 man).
I'm using FDCL and DI atm.
I've tried using VT into SWP into MB, then MF + whatever procs. Sometimes I get the spark very low like 10% just after MB, so I switch to the boss letting the dots kill it, but I find that unreliable, spark goes throw with like 1% life ..
I also tried leaving out VT, but if nothing procs, I'm left with just MF and that doesn't seem to cut it. Also .. I sometimes screw myself on MB using it on boss and it comes up late on spark(it seems like it never procs when I do it on boss).
I have not tried MS spam with MB yet. Should I do this instead of using dots?

Btw I'm using DI over TF because I feel like I have to recast my dots with the TF damage boost up to make it count, how are you guys making use of it?

Re: [5.0.5] Shadow Priest

PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2012 3:35 am
by Worldie
Assuming you want to maximise, you absolutely need ToF for Elegon. You can snipe a SWD on exploding adds in p1 for extra dps, and it will be more or less always up during spark phase, and you will also gain it for most of both pillar/add transitions.

In order to kill sparks up to wave 4/5 (never managed to kill wave 6 myself).
1) Try to save a 3 orbs DP
2) MB / Spike spam. Don't bother dotting, they die too quick.
3) Save FDCL procs for sparks
4) Use Cascade on boss
5) Eventually use shadowfiend / mindbender on last add you want to kill
6) If you find your dps is more than enough for certain waves, throw a ninja SWP on another add to fish for procs

This also works for Tsulong adds btw.

Re: [5.0.5] Shadow Priest

PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2012 3:44 am
by alayire
I'm helping DPS on the Proctector anyway, but I'm using Halo over Cascade to help the healers(they are sort of undergeared).
I don't think will be able to kill the 5'th spark, so we are doing only 4 (because 2 of our dps'ers just plain suck .. no other way to put it :( ).

But what do you do with your TOF buff, do you refresh dots right away(it seems like a waste of gcd's to me) or you just rely on the fact that you have it up enough till you have to put them up anyway?
DI can screw me up badly on Sparks from what I've seen since I can use the proc and then get left dry on the sparks.

Re: [5.0.5] Shadow Priest

PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2012 3:47 am
by Worldie
More or less just "ignore" ToF. I dont do anything special when it's on, I don't even track it. The loss of 2 GCDs which you could use on flay / spike depending on situation is generally not worth the damage gain on the 2 dots.
Also, if you time Halo properly (like, after a add explosion) it will heal people under 15% hp proccing ToF.

Remember that VT and SWP are no longer the biggest part of our DPS. Your top 3 damagers should be DP MB MF

Re: [5.0.5] Shadow Priest

PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2012 4:14 am
by alayire
yeah I Halo right after the explosion, but its CD doesn't synch with the Protector, so I might be losing some dps there I guess.
We haven't seen the last phase of Elegon yet and we can't get below 3 adds in Phase 1, but we've only got like 4 hours on the boss so far so .. I donno.

It sucks that Shadow is my offspec and I have suboptimal gear for it(since most of it is shared with the healing spec, but I'm mostly ok like at hit cap, just haste is not where it's supposed to be also lacking big on trinkets) so I don't know exactly where I should be at with my DPS. I still beat some of our dpsers which tells quite a sad story.
what are you guys pulling on normal fights?(not boosted like Elegon)