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Re: Retribution T13 Discussion Thread

PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2012 11:19 am
by gronc2
main things I am hearing is clcret or clcinfo are very helpful. Understand best places to use your cooldowns on each fight.

Someone told me to just que in lfr as dps, and farm while I wait (switching to JC so need lots of ores), which will allow me to practice. Since I have pretty decent gear already, I should be able to pull some decent dps even as I am learning.

Will come back with more questions shortly I am sure :)

gronc

Re: Retribution T13 Discussion Thread

PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2012 11:40 am
by Cogglamp
Nope, that's exactly what I'd hope you'd write up. I love the detail. It sounds like I was a little too conservative with my HP but that could be better solved when I get 2pc T13 for extra HP generation.

So for spine do you save Divine Shield for when you need to make DWing roll and you stand in the fire pools, when you get the Fiery Grip debuff, or maybe stand closer to the plate while the Amalg finishes his nuclear blast? I would guess that it depends on how the fight is going for you so maybe all three are possibilities?

Re: Retribution T13 Discussion Thread

PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2012 11:48 am
by warden
I save it for breaking grip via bubble/cancel if I get gripped during a tendon burn or gripped in a blast about to go off.

Re: Retribution T13 Discussion Thread

PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2012 12:22 pm
by Kelaan
Cogglamp wrote:On another note, I've found on Yorshaj that I can close the gap on the blobs quicker if I perform a jump-spin-Judgement on Yorshaj... to gain the Long Arm of the Law sprint.

Judgement doesn't have a facing requirement. :) Then again, that might also let you get an exo in the same way, which DOES reqire facing.

Re: Retribution T13 Discussion Thread

PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2012 12:44 pm
by Xfighter
I'm an offspec ret for some DS fights, and find myself to keep up damage wise with the rest of my raid for most fights. The one fight that I seem to have quite a bit of trouble with is heroic yorsahj. I'm wondering what your timing is like for AoEing the black oozes adds? More specifically when you swap seals, if you cleave off the boss or swap targets, etc.

Most likely in prot gear atm,but using normal gurth and 396 ilvl.


P.S. Thanks for all the great info on CD usage etc above ^^.

Re: Retribution T13 Discussion Thread

PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2012 12:54 pm
by gronc2
ok, must have missed something... swapping seals? mid fight?

gronc

Re: Retribution T13 Discussion Thread

PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2012 12:58 pm
by Gab
gronc2 wrote:ok, must have missed something... swapping seals? mid fight?

gronc


The talent Seals of Command (I think that's still what it's called, at work can't check) gives your SoRighteousness splash damage. You should be switching for two fights. On Yor'Sahj when the adds get in range and on Madness for bloods. It's best to do this when there is an otherwise empty global or when you would be replacing something like Consecration or Holy Wrath, except on madness becuase Holy Wrath procs spell weaving afaik but you should have it up before having the option of Holy Wrathing bloods.

Re: Retribution T13 Discussion Thread

PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2012 12:59 pm
by warden
I try to find a white space in my rotation as the adds are spawning (or do it instead of Holy Wrath) to swap to SoR, and replace CS with DS. My main target stays on Yor'Sahj. Also, in situations of 5+ adds replace holy wrath with Cons in the rotation (glyph of cons is a slight dps increase here). If you have 4pT13 (Ret), then in some cases it can be value added to use Zeal/AW even if you're primairly DSing adds rather than pushing back a CD rotation (Yor'shaj has a "early and often" CD theory for rets because there are no big damage boost phases) due to the 18% damage boost from Zeal with the 4pc--not sure if this applies equally to 10 man though. Try to do your seal swaps during empty GCDs or ones that would otherwise be spent on low-priority abilities like HW and Cons rather than overtop a CS, J, or TV GCD.

Hopefuly Anafielle will see this and chime in here--she regularly trouces me on Yor'shaj due mostly to finding more efficient timings to seal swap and target swap (read "playing better").

Re: Retribution T13 Discussion Thread

PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2012 1:02 pm
by gronc2
ok so you are swapping seals to allow you for more damage output in an AOE situation?

gronc

Re: Retribution T13 Discussion Thread

PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2012 1:32 pm
by warden
Yep. Swapping to SoR and DS>CS is a dps gain in nearly all situations involving 4+ targets.

Re: Retribution T13 Discussion Thread

PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2012 11:12 pm
by rodos
Cogglamp wrote:I don't have 2 piece T13 yet on my paladin so maybe that will solve my issues and this is a moot point.

Get 2pcT13 as soon as you can. Run LFR, sacrifice a kitten, whatever. Ret feels like a different class once you have it.

warden wrote:Yor'shaj has a "early and often" CD theory for rets because there are no big damage boost phases

I was dpsing a first kill of Heroic Yor this week with a new group. We were having trouble in yellow-black-red phase with heals and also getting the second set of adds down, so I found it helpful to hold GAnK for one of those phases and potion for another. I used AW+Zeal during an "easy" phase where I could CS freely and not have to move or anything.

Speaking of Yor, I see a lot of other Rets popping GAnK on the pull which seems wrong to me. Unless I'm mistaken there's not enough time to make full use of the buff before the first set of oozes spawn. Would you agree? I also see them popping wings on the pull, where they're obviously not lining it up with Zeal, so perhaps I shouldn't worry that I'm the one doing it wrong.

Ninja edit re Glyph of DP: You shouldn't even need to unglyph it if you're soaking heroic Morchok since the 15% aura. I was soaking as Holy with no shield (using Ledger) and easily survived the stomps where DP wasn't up. It's polite to your healers to use it, but hardly necessary.

Re: Retribution T13 Discussion Thread

PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2012 11:39 pm
by warden
rodos wrote:
warden wrote:Yor'shaj has a "early and often" CD theory for rets because there are no big damage boost phases

I was dpsing a first kill of Heroic Yor this week with a new group. We were having trouble in yellow-black-red phase with heals and also getting the second set of adds down, so I found it helpful to hold GAnK for one of those phases and potion for another. I used AW+Zeal during an "easy" phase where I could CS freely and not have to move or anything.

Speaking of Yor, I see a lot of other Rets popping GAnK on the pull which seems wrong to me. Unless I'm mistaken there's not enough time to make full use of the buff before the first set of oozes spawn. Would you agree? I also see them popping wings on the pull, where they're obviously not lining it up with Zeal, so perhaps I shouldn't worry.

If you do a correctly timed opener on Yor'shaj with GanK and don't get a lucky DP proc to accelerate the AW/Zeal, you'll have to sit on the boss for 6 seconds into the first ooze spawn. I just asked my RL for permission to stay on the boss for 6 seconds there and then rocket booted to the ooze once the CDs fell off, which he was fine with. If you don't get this permission, you can sacrifice one TV by burning AW/Zeal with your initial InQ application and that should time CDs to fall off just as the first oozes are spawning--less ideal, but worth it if it gets you an extra set of CDs over the course of the fight. Regarding RYB combos, absolutely that's where extra DPS is essential. We hero there to help, so I tried to line my cooldowns up with that one anyway, but not at the expense of a full CD rotation over the course of the fight.

Note: Also, to help with timing, don't forget to judge while running in if you're planning on CDing on the opener for any fight you can't start right up next to the boss on. It really helps accelerate the opener sequence when you get that 1 extra HP.

Re: Retribution T13 Discussion Thread

PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2012 10:52 am
by gronc2
I still have pretty bad gear with half a tier 12 and half a tier 13 lfr set. I did not get lucky with drops this week at all. I have a couple of good VP pieces but its not great. I slapped a few enchants on, but I literally don't have enough gold for landslide, what is second best enchant for now?

By reforging I am right at hit and x cap now, and have way more mastery. In one day I went from 20k dps to 40k so that was pretty cool.

I guess my biggest issue is how to work my cool downs, when to work in my healings when my healers need some help, and just figuring out when I shouldn't listen to clcret. But thanks heaps for all the help, I am really feeling much better about my work now, and if I am called upon to do some dps I will be up for the challenge.

gronc

Re: Retribution T13 Discussion Thread

PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2012 11:51 am
by Gab
gronc2 wrote:but I literally don't have enough gold for landslide, what is second best enchant for now?


Avalanche if hit capped, pyrium weapon chain if not hit capped afaik.

gronc2 wrote:By reforging I am right at hit and x cap now, and have way more mastery. In one day I went from 20k dps to 40k so that was pretty cool.


20k to 40k...? On a specific encounter? Must be more to the story.

Re: Retribution T13 Discussion Thread

PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2012 12:18 pm
by gronc2
No not on the same encounter, didn't realize til just a few minutes ago how big the damage buff was on madness. So one was on Ultraxion, then I reforged, and enchanted, and played better and pulled 40k on madness which has a significant buff for damage

gronc

Re: Retribution T13 Discussion Thread

PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2012 1:16 pm
by Fenrìr
Well, you'll naturally do more damage on Madness due to how the fight works. It's not really a fair assessment to judge two different fights with one giving you a damage/haste buff.

Re: Retribution T13 Discussion Thread

PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2012 2:23 pm
by gronc2
didn't I just say that?

gronc

Re: Retribution T13 Discussion Thread

PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2012 7:59 pm
by warden
For all of you protadins on here galavanting around in your offspecs, our very own Anafille wrote an awesome blog post today on her journey from Prot to Ret, and its a great read. Check it out on Ana, Theck and Meloree's blog: http://sacredduty.net/2012/04/02/why-i- ... tribution/

Re: Retribution T13 Discussion Thread

PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2012 8:36 am
by Gab
warden wrote:For all of you protadins on here galavanting around in your offspecs, our very own Anafille wrote an awesome blog post today on her journey from Prot to Ret, and its a great read. Check it out on Ana, Theck and Meloree's blog: http://sacredduty.net/2012/04/02/why-i- ... tribution/


Good read, well written. It echoes some of my same feelings. Although I still enjoy tanking and it will stay my main spec for now, I find myself more and more enjoying melting some face. Every week I look forward to Zon'ozz, Yor'sahj and Hagara and even the Firelands runs to finish our mage's staff where I get to go Ret.

Ret has done a lot of evolution over time and seems to just keep getting better and better (more fun to play) every expansion. It's definitely been a great experience during Cata. Thanks again for all the advice and insight in helping me be a respectable closet Ret.

Re: Retribution T13 Discussion Thread

PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2012 11:03 am
by gronc2
now have the rotting skull trink SO I am running license to slay with it. I have had no luck so far this week with drops but still have my lfr's to run. Any thoughts on the trinks? other trinks?

gronc

Re: Retribution T13 Discussion Thread

PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2012 12:03 pm
by Fenrìr
I don't know what your rep is with Avengers of Hyjal, but the Essence of Eternal Flame is a decent trinket. I know some people are still using the heroic version of Heart of Rage from Chim in BWD as well.

Re: Retribution T13 Discussion Thread

PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2012 7:25 am
by benebarba
I figured this probably the best place for this occasional ret-playing tankadin to ask: what the heck are we supposed to do with HoPo during AOE periods? I have the 'keep inq rolling' thing down more or less, but occasionally seem to end up in a place where it seems like nothing else changes from single target (unless there are enough to justify using DS). Am I doing it wrong?

Re: Retribution T13 Discussion Thread

PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2012 7:32 am
by Gab
benebarba wrote:I figured this probably the best place for this occasional ret-playing tankadin to ask: what the heck are we supposed to do with HoPo during AOE periods? I have the 'keep inq rolling' thing down more or less, but occasionally seem to end up in a place where it seems like nothing else changes from single target (unless there are enough to justify using DS). Am I doing it wrong?


With the HoPo (and DP procs) you should still be using TV just like with single target.

The only things that really change are your seal, SoT to SoR, and replace CS with DS. Consecration priority also moves up a bit.

Re: Retribution T13 Discussion Thread

PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 5:39 am
by Mannstein
Gab wrote:
benebarba wrote:I figured this probably the best place for this occasional ret-playing tankadin to ask: what the heck are we supposed to do with HoPo during AOE periods? I have the 'keep inq rolling' thing down more or less, but occasionally seem to end up in a place where it seems like nothing else changes from single target (unless there are enough to justify using DS). Am I doing it wrong?


With the HoPo (and DP procs) you should still be using TV just like with single target.

The only things that really change are your seal, SoT to SoR, and replace CS with DS. Consecration priority also moves up a bit.

2/3 target - I tend to get 5 stacks of Censure on all, it's possible, just do Single target changing when it reaches 5 stacks.
4+ stacks - SoR and DS all the way. Consecration > HW.

Re: Retribution T13 Discussion Thread

PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2012 10:39 am
by benebarba
Gab wrote:
warden wrote:For all of you protadins on here galavanting around in your offspecs, our very own Anafille wrote an awesome blog post today on her journey from Prot to Ret, and its a great read. Check it out on Ana, Theck and Meloree's blog: http://sacredduty.net/2012/04/02/why-i- ... tribution/


Good read, well written. It echoes some of my same feelings. Although I still enjoy tanking and it will stay my main spec for now, I find myself more and more enjoying melting some face. Every week I look forward to Zon'ozz, Yor'sahj and Hagara and even the Firelands runs to finish our mage's staff where I get to go Ret.

Ret has done a lot of evolution over time and seems to just keep getting better and better (more fun to play) every expansion. It's definitely been a great experience during Cata. Thanks again for all the advice and insight in helping me be a respectable closet Ret.


After joining up with a raiding guild as the OT (read: prot pally who's spending most of the bosses this tier as ret), I'm finding much enjoyment in smashing face and trying to use all these handy utility abilities to keep the MT from going splat. I'm also not dead-last in DPS which is nice :P

question: I am fairly confident that my memorization of the priority queue is not as good as it could be. I've heard clcret recommended - thoughts/comments?


also for the ret-swapping tankadins: on H-Hagara, do you just one-tank the trash and stay ret the whole time? We're going to begin attempts on it, and I usually swap to ret before we pull hagara but after we down the trash. It sounds like that wont be an option on Heroic?