[Shadow Priest] Guide/Rotation

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Re: [Shadow Priest] Guide/Rotation

Postby Darielle » Fri Feb 10, 2012 8:59 am

He asked for his gear - that number was for his gear. I'm not sure where what you're saying is relevant to him.

But sidebar, there's a limited range within which you'd expect Ultraxion dps. 30k should be low end for anyone progressing on Ultraxion-N anyway simply because you're extremely, extremely unlikely to be trying to make progression on normal with a full set of 353's. Even "extremely unlucky" people are almost definitely rocking half-378 and half-397, with a scattering of 384's in there.
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Re: [Shadow Priest] Guide/Rotation

Postby Skye1013 » Fri Feb 10, 2012 9:03 am

Darielle wrote:He asked for his gear - that number was for his gear. I'm not sure where what you're saying is relevant to him.

My apologies, I missed the "in my gear" and was reading that as the expected goal for any spriest on Ultrax.
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Re: [Shadow Priest] Guide/Rotation

Postby rodos » Sun Feb 12, 2012 4:09 pm

Darielle wrote:But sidebar, there's a limited range within which you'd expect Ultraxion dps. 30k should be low end for anyone progressing on Ultraxion-N anyway simply because you're extremely, extremely unlikely to be trying to make progression on normal with a full set of 353's. Even "extremely unlucky" people are almost definitely rocking half-378 and half-397, with a scattering of 384's in there.

These types of posts always highlight to me just how different this game is for the elite vs the average. I would set the "unacceptable" bar at 20k for our raids, get excited by anything over 25k, and don't think I have ever seen over 30k in a fight without a +damage buff/debuff. We were farming 6/7n FL pre-nerf and did a few 7/7n runs post-nerf, so everyone in mostly 378s with 2 or 4-piece set bonus.

Median raid kill dps for Ultraxion 10n is 190k (from WoL). If people are 2-healing and 2 tanks = 1 dps that's about 27k dps per player, so low-end for the average group would be low-to-mid 20s.
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Re: [Shadow Priest] Guide/Rotation

Postby Worldie » Thu Feb 16, 2012 1:58 am

Sorry to bother you fellas again.

Anyone can comment on my performance on our Ultrax hc kill? My officer's comment was pretty much "well you really pressed all the buttons you could press".
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Re: [Shadow Priest] Guide/Rotation

Postby Dantriges » Thu Feb 16, 2012 6:19 am

Does Rove have better gear?
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Re: [Shadow Priest] Guide/Rotation

Postby Worldie » Thu Feb 16, 2012 10:12 am

Higher ilvl + legendary + DI, i'd say yes :P
theckhd wrote:Fuck no, we've seen what you do to guilds. Just imagine what you could do to an entire country. Just visiting the US might be enough to make the southern states try to secede again.

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Re: [Shadow Priest] Guide/Rotation

Postby Cogglamp » Thu Feb 16, 2012 11:51 am

Looks like Ayarea and Rove got off 2 and 7 more SW: Deaths respectively than you did which can be significant. Though it's hard to tell if Rove used it for mana as I'm not quite sure how he could be that much higher than you.

It also looks like Aya also has Tarecgosa, right? I only mention that because you were awfully close to Ayarea and that accounted for 620k where as you were only 200k behind. Although it appears that Aya doesn't have 4pc as their Shadowfiend looks to be benefiting from the 2pc Fireland bonus.

I'm not seeing DI on Rove, rather I'm seeing it on Ayarea. Am I reading it wrong?

Not seeing a whole lot of differences really once you strip out DI and Tarecgosa. You seem to be doing a better job "wiggling" between GCDs in trying to proc Shadowy Apparitions as you're far higher than the other two.

Probably a dumb question, but are you cancelling dispersion after you soak?

Try bribing Aero for Power Infusion. :P
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Re: [Shadow Priest] Guide/Rotation

Postby Worldie » Thu Feb 16, 2012 12:12 pm

Well, I don't really know how to push my dps any further. I've been recasting DP/VT on any proc, clipping MF anytime i need to cast something, cancelling dispersion as soon as HoT hits, clicking HW at 1 sec left. Yet I still feel I'm underperforming, simcraft says I should be pushing 37k dps and i'm 2k behind somehow.

I mean, it's ok to be last as long as I know I'm doing my best dps and it's just gear that makes me lag behind, but I dislike underperforming.
theckhd wrote:Fuck no, we've seen what you do to guilds. Just imagine what you could do to an entire country. Just visiting the US might be enough to make the southern states try to secede again.

halabar wrote:Noo.. you don't realize the problem. Worldie was to negative guild breaking energy like Bolvar is to the Scourge. If Worldie is removed, than someone must pick up that mantle, otherwise that negative guild breaking energy will run rampant, destroying all the servers.
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Re: [Shadow Priest] Guide/Rotation

Postby Cogglamp » Thu Feb 16, 2012 12:42 pm

Noob but serious question: are all procs worthy of a recast or should you only do recast on Power Torrent/DMC: Volcano-like procs where it's a massive Intellect boost?

Also, when are you using your second potion? Are you using it on your second go around with your 4pc bonus (along with a Power Torrent proc)?
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Re: [Shadow Priest] Guide/Rotation

Postby Worldie » Thu Feb 16, 2012 12:53 pm

I'm recasting on: Power Torrent, Velocity (trinket proc), Lightweave.

I've used 2nd pot on a Velocity proc, any better idea? (Bloodlust is casted at start)
theckhd wrote:Fuck no, we've seen what you do to guilds. Just imagine what you could do to an entire country. Just visiting the US might be enough to make the southern states try to secede again.

halabar wrote:Noo.. you don't realize the problem. Worldie was to negative guild breaking energy like Bolvar is to the Scourge. If Worldie is removed, than someone must pick up that mantle, otherwise that negative guild breaking energy will run rampant, destroying all the servers.
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Re: [Shadow Priest] Guide/Rotation

Postby Cogglamp » Thu Feb 16, 2012 3:07 pm

My only other idea would be to use the potion on the 4pc cooldown burn the second time around. Quite possibly you can line that second burn up with a power torrent or lightweave, pop potion, and commence your burn phase. I don't know if that's optimal though, just trying to toss around some ideas.

I don't have a clue about Velocity honestly. My guess is that you'd need to see if you'd gain additional ticks for each DoT to see if it makes sense. Although at +2900 haste, my hunch says yes so it should be worth it but you'd need a Theorycrafter to confirm it.

I know this thread helped me a bit as well: http://www.shadowpriest.com/viewtopic.php?f=72&t=30836

Only other thing I picked up is refreshing DP twice through a proc. Once right at the beginning of the proc and then again right before it falls off. Given that it's higher DPET than MFlay, it becomes worthwhile due extending the length of the spell under the proc a bit. Also, gives you time to "wiggle" for more Shadowy Apparitions between the GCDs and which leads to more Shadowy Orbs for big Mind Blasts.
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Re: [Shadow Priest] Guide/Rotation

Postby Rhiannon » Fri Feb 17, 2012 2:19 pm

Worldie wrote:Well, I don't really know how to push my dps any further. I've been recasting DP/VT on any proc, clipping MF anytime i need to cast something, cancelling dispersion as soon as HoT hits, clicking HW at 1 sec left. Yet I still feel I'm underperforming, simcraft says I should be pushing 37k dps and i'm 2k behind somehow.

I mean, it's ok to be last as long as I know I'm doing my best dps and it's just gear that makes me lag behind, but I dislike underperforming.


In that log you're doing better than Ayarea if you eliminate DI (why it was on that player rather than Rove I'm unsure, a lot better if you discount Tarecgosa). For that particular fight I'd probably macro death into your heroic will keybind to squeeze out that extra instant when porting out (though that might conceivably be a dps loss if you have to use heroic will at just before 25%, and having multiple heroic will keybinds based on situation is probably counter-productive).

You're still not using any spike spam during fiends? Tried it and didn't get decent results, or? I'd use second pot on second fiend + arch -> spike/blast spam.

DP is almost always worth recasting on strong procs, VT is a lot more questionable. As a general rule I would not recast VT for anything but the strongest buffs (ie velocity, heroism, or if you have a non-empowered shadows buffed VT up).
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Re: [Shadow Priest] Guide/Rotation

Postby Worldie » Sat Feb 18, 2012 10:32 am

What's this spike/blast thingie you talking about?
theckhd wrote:Fuck no, we've seen what you do to guilds. Just imagine what you could do to an entire country. Just visiting the US might be enough to make the southern states try to secede again.

halabar wrote:Noo.. you don't realize the problem. Worldie was to negative guild breaking energy like Bolvar is to the Scourge. If Worldie is removed, than someone must pick up that mantle, otherwise that negative guild breaking energy will run rampant, destroying all the servers.
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Re: [Shadow Priest] Guide/Rotation

Postby Skye1013 » Sat Feb 18, 2012 3:58 pm

With 4 piece tier 13, SF attacks give you 3 orbs. So during your SF, you should be switching to MS (x3?) MB. After SF is gone, you go back to your normal priority.
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Re: [Shadow Priest] Guide/Rotation

Postby Worldie » Sun Feb 19, 2012 1:10 am

This is something new I didn't know of, I'm gonna try it out asap. I suppose i hence combine always Archangel with SF?
theckhd wrote:Fuck no, we've seen what you do to guilds. Just imagine what you could do to an entire country. Just visiting the US might be enough to make the southern states try to secede again.

halabar wrote:Noo.. you don't realize the problem. Worldie was to negative guild breaking energy like Bolvar is to the Scourge. If Worldie is removed, than someone must pick up that mantle, otherwise that negative guild breaking energy will run rampant, destroying all the servers.
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Re: [Shadow Priest] Guide/Rotation

Postby Skye1013 » Sun Feb 19, 2012 6:37 am

That's how I understand it, yes.
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Re: [Shadow Priest] Guide/Rotation

Postby Worldie » Sun Feb 19, 2012 10:03 am

I'm trying this out... just saying omg
Image
And the MS/MB phase only lasted a total of 20 seconds.
theckhd wrote:Fuck no, we've seen what you do to guilds. Just imagine what you could do to an entire country. Just visiting the US might be enough to make the southern states try to secede again.

halabar wrote:Noo.. you don't realize the problem. Worldie was to negative guild breaking energy like Bolvar is to the Scourge. If Worldie is removed, than someone must pick up that mantle, otherwise that negative guild breaking energy will run rampant, destroying all the servers.
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Re: [Shadow Priest] Guide/Rotation

Postby Rhiannon » Sun Feb 19, 2012 10:39 am

Worldie wrote:I'm trying this out... just saying omg
Image
And the MS/MB phase only lasted a total of 20 seconds.



Warden and I did mention it back on page 3 ;). Whether it's always a gain to do this is still not totally clear cut, but definitely doing it off the pull it should be, snd on any fight with a vulnerability phase (e.g. Hagara, Spine).
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Re: [Shadow Priest] Guide/Rotation

Postby Worldie » Sun Feb 19, 2012 11:10 am

Well as you have seen, on Ultrax hc i've managed barely 34k without this, while on LFR Ultraxion i've almost hit 36k without flask / pots / hero.

Quite confident it's a good dps gain, at least for me.
theckhd wrote:Fuck no, we've seen what you do to guilds. Just imagine what you could do to an entire country. Just visiting the US might be enough to make the southern states try to secede again.

halabar wrote:Noo.. you don't realize the problem. Worldie was to negative guild breaking energy like Bolvar is to the Scourge. If Worldie is removed, than someone must pick up that mantle, otherwise that negative guild breaking energy will run rampant, destroying all the servers.
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Re: [Shadow Priest] Guide/Rotation

Postby Darielle » Mon Feb 20, 2012 3:21 am

Yeah, I'd assumed you'd seen it earlier. That'll get you a fair bit of the way to where you want to be.
You should be able to line up an Archangel with a SF right as you're about to get him to 25% most of the time.

That Shadow Priest who got DI instead of Rove is so lucky. Then again, I wish we had a Warlock to begin with.
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Re: [Shadow Priest] Guide/Rotation

Postby Worldie » Mon Feb 20, 2012 5:10 am

Tbh I have to argue with our 2nd warlock who insists our Fire mage gets his DI because he has legendary and does more DPS. I wish I could strangle him.

How does 24k dps on dummy sound? I'm having huge mana problems by lineing up every other AA with shadowfiend.
theckhd wrote:Fuck no, we've seen what you do to guilds. Just imagine what you could do to an entire country. Just visiting the US might be enough to make the southern states try to secede again.

halabar wrote:Noo.. you don't realize the problem. Worldie was to negative guild breaking energy like Bolvar is to the Scourge. If Worldie is removed, than someone must pick up that mantle, otherwise that negative guild breaking energy will run rampant, destroying all the servers.
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Re: [Shadow Priest] Guide/Rotation

Postby Darielle » Mon Feb 20, 2012 6:31 am

Oh, bear in mind that if you can, you'll want to get Lusts for later Shadowfiends anyway after you pop them, so that'll get you more mana.

ALSO remember when doing this, since you'll have instant Mind Blast, you need to make sure that you let your Shadowfiend hit between the last Mind Spike and the Mind Blast, or you'll just Mind Blast with no Orbs and be like "F U". The key thing is to definitely be on top of SW:D use later on, as long as you aren't quite oom by 25%, you'll wind up being fine.

AFAIK, delaying AA (unless it's like 5 seconds ish) to line it up is a dps loss though, but I've seen people argue both ways on that.
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Re: [Shadow Priest] Guide/Rotation

Postby Worldie » Mon Feb 20, 2012 7:03 am

Rather than delaying AA which turned out as a huge loss expecially if no luck on MF crits, I was thinking of delaying SF to line up with every 2nd AA (effectively delaying it by 30 or so seconds)
theckhd wrote:Fuck no, we've seen what you do to guilds. Just imagine what you could do to an entire country. Just visiting the US might be enough to make the southern states try to secede again.

halabar wrote:Noo.. you don't realize the problem. Worldie was to negative guild breaking energy like Bolvar is to the Scourge. If Worldie is removed, than someone must pick up that mantle, otherwise that negative guild breaking energy will run rampant, destroying all the servers.
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Re: [Shadow Priest] Guide/Rotation

Postby Rhiannon » Mon Feb 20, 2012 7:40 am

Darielle wrote:ALSO remember when doing this, since you'll have instant Mind Blast, you need to make sure that you let your Shadowfiend hit between the last Mind Spike and the Mind Blast, or you'll just Mind Blast with no Orbs and be like "F U".


You can macro /cancelaura mind melt into your Mind Blast as with 33% haste (which I guess you're fairly close to with raid buffs) mind blast becomes a 1s cast anyway. So it's like:

0.00 cast Mind Spike 1
1.00 Mind Spike 1 hits, cast Mind Spike 2
2.00 Mind Spike 2 hits, cast Mind Blast
3.00 Mind Blast hits, cast Mind Spike 3
4.00 Mind Spike 3 hits, cast Mind Spike 4

rather than

0.00 cast Mind Spike 1
1.00 Mind Spike 1 hits, cast Mind Spike 2
2.00 Mind Spike 2 hits, cast Mind Blast, Mind Blast hits (no way shadowfiend can land a hit between Mind Spike 2 and Mind Blast hitting)
3.00 cast Mind Spike 3
4.00 Mind Spike 3 hits, cast Mind Spike 4

That way you get a full second during which your shadowfiend can land a hit before the Mind Blast lands without having to delay your casts at all - though due to a slight delay in mind melt applying to your character you might still have to delay a fifth of a second or so - better than up to a whole second you might have to wait for another shadowfiend melee hit.
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Re: [Shadow Priest] Guide/Rotation

Postby Darielle » Mon Feb 20, 2012 9:39 pm

Rhiannon wrote:
Darielle wrote:ALSO remember when doing this, since you'll have instant Mind Blast, you need to make sure that you let your Shadowfiend hit between the last Mind Spike and the Mind Blast, or you'll just Mind Blast with no Orbs and be like "F U".


You can macro /cancelaura mind melt into your Mind Blast as with 33% haste (which I guess you're fairly close to with raid buffs) mind blast becomes a 1s cast anyway. So it's like:

0.00 cast Mind Spike 1
1.00 Mind Spike 1 hits, cast Mind Spike 2
2.00 Mind Spike 2 hits, cast Mind Blast
3.00 Mind Blast hits, cast Mind Spike 3
4.00 Mind Spike 3 hits, cast Mind Spike 4

rather than

0.00 cast Mind Spike 1
1.00 Mind Spike 1 hits, cast Mind Spike 2
2.00 Mind Spike 2 hits, cast Mind Blast, Mind Blast hits (no way shadowfiend can land a hit between Mind Spike 2 and Mind Blast hitting)
3.00 cast Mind Spike 3
4.00 Mind Spike 3 hits, cast Mind Spike 4

That way you get a full second during which your shadowfiend can land a hit before the Mind Blast lands without having to delay your casts at all - though due to a slight delay in mind melt applying to your character you might still have to delay a fifth of a second or so - better than up to a whole second you might have to wait for another shadowfiend melee hit.


I've found with that that you still wind up having Mind Melt stacks anyway unless you wait for the last Spike's Melt to come up, and if you're doing that then you might as well not Cancelaura to begin with.
But that's personal experience, and since I play from NZ, that's going to be wildly different in terms of latency to other people. As long as he's aware of it and the options, he should be able to see which handles it better for him.

Rather than delaying AA which turned out as a huge loss expecially if no luck on MF crits, I was thinking of delaying SF to line up with every 2nd AA (effectively delaying it by 30 or so seconds)


I haven't seen any math on it, and I've never tried it, but hunch tells me that's also enough of a dps loss to outweigh it.

Unless it was specifically in the situation where you'd wind up putting a Shadowfiend out 30 seconds before the fight ended, so delaying the Shadowfiend makes no difference because you would have had only 3 Shadowfiends anyway, and even delaying it you'll have 3 Fiends. If in delaying that Fiend, you wind up delaying hard enough to remove the chance of a 4th Fiend, that's when it's probably not worth it.
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