[Priest] Disc Discussion

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[Priest] Disc Discussion

Postby Skye1013 » Mon Mar 07, 2011 12:42 am

Ok, so I've been reading the EJ forums to try and get a handle on the disc priest changes (since I haven't done any serious disc healing other than the occasional heroic dungeons/VoA since BC.)

I've more or less decided on my spec (you can check my armory if you want, Schatze - Scarlet Crusade (US), last 2 points will likely go into Inspiration.) Just wanted to see if you guys had any input on various talents (I didn't grab Soul Warding/Strength of Soul for example) and if you picked them up, why did you take them and what did you remove? If I focused more on PW:S instead of Smite healing (soon to be Holy Fire/Smite when 4.1 hits) I would probably remove the points from Surge of Light, but not sure where I'd pull the other points from, unless I drop Archangel/Atonement completely, in which case I could keep SoL since it procs from more than just Smite.

Any insight into the current state of things (as well as the future state after 4.1, since it's likely to be out shortly after I'm actually able to commit myself to healing in April) would be appreciated.

Yes I do realize that a lot of it comes from actually playing and getting a feel for how the spec works, but I don't want to jump in completely unprepared :).
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Re: [Priest] Disc Discussion

Postby bldavis » Mon Mar 07, 2011 1:23 am

if you dont use smite-healing, you wont be getting much use out of atonement, or evang/archangel

heres a build that ignores smite healing, and should be decent for the traditional disc playstyle it sounds like you are going for
http://www.wowhead.com/talent#bfhzrosbfRMofZh:cmqrqZMVz

the last 2 points, i would suggest putting them in inspiration in the holy tree, every time your penance crits, you get a physical damage reduction on that target? there will be very few fights where that is not useful.
prime glyphs are mostly your choice, i put in the ones i would go with, possibly switching the barrier one for flash heal or renew, depending on how much i used barrier

if you are in heavy aoe healing (which you shouldnt be as disc, but shit happens) then the PoH glyph is really nice

granted i have played holy since 66 on my now 84 priest so....
just doing reading and based on experience this is what i would go with

however if you do want to stick with the smite healing, then i would say put your last 2 points in either soul warding or strength of soul
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Re: [Priest] Disc Discussion

Postby Skye1013 » Mon Mar 07, 2011 1:51 am

I'm not saying I plan to focus mainly on PW:S, unless I find it's needed (I like the idea of A/A builds, and being able to "dps heal" has always been appealing to me.) Also, with the 4.1 changes, it looks like Smite healing is getting a buff while PW:S healing is getting a small nerf (the nerf hurts more with larger group sizes, since it would make pre-shielding far more difficult in 25-mans than 5/10-mans without having multiple disc priests.) I guess my biggest concern really is, how smart is the smart healing of Atonement? I'd hate to be chugging away and all of a sudden due to the randomness of a lot of encounters, my smite hits someone that just got fully healed while some other person is still sitting rather low (of course I'd likely PW:S/Penance them at that point for a guaranteed save vs maybe hitting them with the next Atonement.)

Soul Warding only reduces the CD of PW:S, so unless I'm missing something, doesn't make a lot of sense for a Smite heavy build. And Smite doesn't trigger Strength of Soul, so again doesn't make much sense to me.

Are PW:S builds "better" than the Smite builds? Or does that vary with content, such as Smite is better for 5-mans, but PW:S is better for 10/25 raiding (save for a few gimmick fights like Halfus, where Smite healing is pretty powerful thanks to the damage/healing buffs)?

Sorry if some of my thoughts aren't fully fleshed out... I'm at work and distractions happen :D.
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Re: [Priest] Disc Discussion

Postby Levantine » Mon Mar 07, 2011 2:42 am

I personally quite enjoy Atonement healing on my Priest when I decide to go Disc. Inspiration is an absolute must have in my books, but I'll leave that one alone. I'd also strongly advise against ever using Renew. It's just Not Good for Discipline healing as you can't really afford the two points to boost its throughput to acceptable levels for the GCD. You're really better off just hardcasting a Smite/heal. I tend to agree on the lack of benefit in SW and SoS for an Atonement/AA build, so I don't take them in mine. From what I've noticed, Atonement's generally fairly intelligent, but I don't rely on it to the exclusion of Pennance/ PWS and Greater Heal (I don't bother with Heal at all, it just doesn't have the kick in situations when I need it, and Smite does a better job when I can afford to go into lazy mode healing).

TLDR.
Spec I use: http://www.wowhead.com/talent#bfGoMRsbc ... :qmcdaM0zM
PWS tank (at the very least) on cooldown for Rapture, if you can milk more procs out of it from damage on other people, go for it.
Pennance to keep up Grace on tank for healing justice
Smite (Make sure to keep HF uptime as high as possible, especially in 4.1) as your go to heal
GH and PoH as your Oh God Damage heals

Keep in mind this is in 5mans. I raid(ed) as Holy/Shadow.

Edit cause I linked the wrong spec like a dumbass.

Edit again to add that for Glyphs I tend to swap out Pennance instead of Barrier in AE intensive fights. I found I can make more use of the 10% healing on the Barrier than the 2sec on Pennance when the shit hits the fan and I start to spam PoH.
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Re: [Priest] Disc Discussion

Postby Skye1013 » Mon Mar 07, 2011 8:27 am

Inspiration will definitely be picked up, my priest is only 83, so that's where the last two points are going (I'm not likely to start healing until 85 because I don't trust my current connection to be stable enough.)

For raids, why holy? Do you tend to raid heal more than tank heal, since from what I've gathered, that tends to be the "niche" of holy?
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Re: [Priest] Disc Discussion

Postby Levantine » Tue Mar 08, 2011 1:26 am

I'm just better as Holy and I like it more for legit healing. Disc is perfectly capable, I just don't particularly enjoy it outside of heroics. Chakra works with my style of healing and I much prefer the flavour of the tree in general.

Chakra also happens to be the reason I'm so heavily against using Renew as Disc. If I couldn't either roll a Renew on people or boost its throughput by a flat 15% I wouldn't use it even as Holy.
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Re: [Priest] Disc Discussion

Postby Skye1013 » Tue Mar 08, 2011 1:51 am

Yeah, from what EJ has been saying, while there are some situations (movement heavy fights for example) that Renew might be used, the only way to make it remotely useful requires heavy stacking of haste (including Borrowed Time/Power Infusion/Bloodlust) grabbing the few talents that prop it up, as well as the glyph slots. Seems excessive to make it worthwhile for 10/20 secs.

As for your A/A spec, do you generally try to keep all your secondary stats about equal, or do you focus more on one over the other? I'd assume mastery is probably the lowest priority for that particular spec unless Atonement can proc Divine Aegis.
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Re: [Priest] Disc Discussion

Postby Levantine » Tue Mar 08, 2011 2:57 am

Atonement does proc Divine Aegis. It's linked to Smite, so if Smite crits, the Atonement heal counts as a crit and procs the relevant shield. As disc I would generally aim to keep all stats around the same, but that's just from my experience, ymmv and I recommend playing around with it and seeing what you feel you're lacking most and then adding to that. I'm a giant mastery slut from my Holy adventures, and I crit is greatly devalued for Holy, so my gearing reflects that.
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Re: [Priest] Disc Discussion

Postby Amirya » Tue Mar 08, 2011 4:13 pm

Good gods, guys :(

Instead of working on my warrior next, ya'll are making me want to break out my little priestess.

I just don't know if I want to do disc/shadow, or holy/shadow (I haven't been holy since level 30 back in BC), or disc/holy.
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Re: [Priest] Disc Discussion

Postby Skye1013 » Fri Mar 11, 2011 2:45 am

Anyone have any experience as 85 disc in PvP? I'd assume a PW:S focus would be superior to an Atonement spec. Any thoughts?
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Re: [Priest] Disc Discussion

Postby thatguy » Fri Mar 11, 2011 8:48 am

I've been doing PvP with my priest and it's been fucking awesome. I don't curse much but Disc Priest PvP is just that much fun. I giggle when people try to kill me 1v1. Strength of Soul is a godsend.

Granted, this is in random BGs but I'm consistently showing up as one of the top 3 healers. The only one that scares me is a frost mage but they're completely retarded right now it's not even funny. Do not get into a 1v1 fight with another disc priest. Just don't.

I didn't take up anything with Atonement. PW:S is your go to spell. My resilience is quite low but it's only going to get better. You aren't going to be smiting/holy firing. You can just Mind Blast/Mind Spike instead with faster cast times and used SW: Death as a finisher. I get more killing blows on my priest than my other classes. Try to be offensive as you can.

I followed what Talbadar wrote up at Arenajunkies.com

www.arenajunkies.com/topic/189935-pries ... ena-in-406

Talbadar has a good discussion about glyphs/stats/enchants/etc.

Intellect>Resilience>Spirit>Mastery>Crit/Haste.

Here's my link: us.battle.net/wow/character/kul-tiras/touchyhealy/simple

I admit that my gear is quite horrible but PvP priesting as disc is just so much fun.
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Re: [Priest] Disc Discussion

Postby daemonym » Tue Mar 15, 2011 6:12 am

I have a question of my own for disc. I'm running my space goat through normal mode dungeons to get a feel for the UI and spec. All of my other toons I use only 1-2 addons in order to help me play better. However even in grim batol with a level 85 tank in all tank gear and an acceptable spec I tend to drop 20-30k mana per pull.

Armory:http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/ysera/allystokpile/simple

All of my gear has spirit on it minus one with an int trink and a spirit trink. I'm gemming for straight int and picking up the occasional socket bonus with either spirit or mastery gems.

I checked recount on a few random pulls and saw I did only a few thousand over healing which translated into wasting half of a greater heal while "most" of my shields broke. The last 1-2 tend not to be fully used up, but they're always put onto melee that stand in cleaves and assorted bad stuff.

My question really is am I doing something wrong or is spending that much mana on your average pull normal ish?
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Re: [Priest] Disc Discussion

Postby Skye1013 » Tue Mar 15, 2011 8:58 am

daemonym wrote:I have a question of my own for disc. I'm running my space goat through normal mode dungeons to get a feel for the UI and spec. All of my other toons I use only 1-2 addons in order to help me play better. However even in grim batol with a level 85 tank in all tank gear and an acceptable spec I tend to drop 20-30k mana per pull.

Armory:http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/ysera/allystokpile/simple

All of my gear has spirit on it minus one with an int trink and a spirit trink. I'm gemming for straight int and picking up the occasional socket bonus with either spirit or mastery gems.

I checked recount on a few random pulls and saw I did only a few thousand over healing which translated into wasting half of a greater heal while "most" of my shields broke. The last 1-2 tend not to be fully used up, but they're always put onto melee that stand in cleaves and assorted bad stuff.

My question really is am I doing something wrong or is spending that much mana on your average pull normal ish?

I can't really comment on the average mana used per pull, but from what I've been reading, spirit stacking isn't as vital for disc thanks to Rapture (which benefits more from Int.) EJ actually did some maths that shows using GHeal w/ Inner Focus on cd actually provides better healing return for the roughly the same mana cost as using just Heal. Penance should be used pretty much on CD and unless you're a raid healer, which is one of discs weaker points, PW:S should only be used to maintain Rapture, which severely reduces the need to stack Mastery (that's probably a run-on sentence, but hopefully my point still gets through XD.) I know this may not be completely helpful to your question, but might give you some ideas of things you can try.
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Re: [Priest] Disc Discussion

Postby Nikachelle » Tue Mar 15, 2011 9:07 am

What I can't figure out, for my disc priest... is why the Heal spell is so bloody long. 2.76 second cast time? Are you kidding me? Even with haste from shielding, that's still cut down to what... 2.3? It's awful. When I compare to my shaman and her efficient heal, hers is about 1.5 seconds. I really don't get the balance there.
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Re: [Priest] Disc Discussion

Postby Skye1013 » Tue Mar 15, 2011 9:16 am

Nikachelle wrote:What I can't figure out, for my disc priest... is why the Heal spell is so bloody long. 2.76 second cast time? Are you kidding me? Even with haste from shielding, that's still cut down to what... 2.3? It's awful. When I compare to my shaman and her efficient heal, hers is about 1.5 seconds. I really don't get the balance there.

Assuming you picked up Atonement... you should be using smite, not heal (same cast speed and with Evangelism buff reduces the cost to roughly the same.) Also, as I mentioned in my previous post, GHeal w/Inner Focus on CD costs approx. the same mana as continuously using Heal (for the same casting speed and considerably more heals per cast time.) Borrowed time needs to be taken into account as well, since every time you PW:S you get a large haste boost (which Penance doesn't consume {but still gets the haste bonus} and lasts long enough to Penance THEN Smite/Heal/GHeal.)
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