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DK DW and TG Warriors

PostPosted: Thu Feb 17, 2011 6:53 am
by Kraziness
Recently I recieved epic 1 hander from Magmaw. I had been raiding on my DK as 2H frost, even before the recent buff to that frost spec. I then reforged my armor to boost my hit when I went DW spec. I didn't like it one bit, it seems to me that trying to hit cap when dual wielding is just too big of a PITA for the payoffs to other dps stats. I went back to 2H and decided to keep the epic in the off chance somewhere down the road I get really bored or get some sort of massive +hit trinket or something.

However on my Fury TG warrior, in some PVP crafted gear, a few pices of JP gear, a couple of heroic items I am sitting at an easy unbuffed 18% to hit. There are still alot of pieces of gear I could go get that would increase that +hit alot too. Is it just me or why does a warrior wielding two 2H weapons seem more viable than a DK wielding two 1H weapons? What is the hit cap for TG warriors? Anyone hit cap your white hits on a TG warrior, if so how much +hit does it take? Any thoughts?

Re: DK DW and TG Warriors

PostPosted: Thu Feb 17, 2011 7:25 am
by Skye1013
Kraziness wrote:Recently I recieved epic 1 hander from Magmaw. I had been raiding on my DK as 2H frost, even before the recent buff to that frost spec. I then reforged my armor to boost my hit when I went DW spec. I didn't like it one bit, it seems to me that trying to hit cap when dual wielding is just too big of a PITA for the payoffs to other dps stats. I went back to 2H and decided to keep the epic in the off chance somewhere down the road I get really bored or get some sort of massive +hit trinket or something.

However on my Fury TG warrior, in some PVP crafted gear, a few pices of JP gear, a couple of heroic items I am sitting at an easy unbuffed 18% to hit. There are still alot of pieces of gear I could go get that would increase that +hit alot too. Is it just me or why does a warrior wielding two 2H weapons seem more viable than a DK wielding two 1H weapons? What is the hit cap for TG warriors? Anyone hit cap your white hits on a TG warrior, if so how much +hit does it take? Any thoughts?

Everything I've read says, it doesn't make sense to white hit cap a DK. You should soft cap (8%) and exp cap (26) and after that stack mastery, then crit. As far as TG warriors... can't help you there. Though I'm sure someone here can.

Re: DK DW and TG Warriors

PostPosted: Thu Feb 17, 2011 9:59 am
by bldavis
sorry, after playing most of her time in Wrath at 80 as fury and leveling to 84 as fury, my warrior is arms again
idr the hit caps off the top of my head

Re: DK DW and TG Warriors

PostPosted: Thu Feb 17, 2011 10:13 am
by Kelaan
I wish our warriors were Arms ... then I could roll on 2H weapons that drop for my offspec. :D

Re: DK DW and TG Warriors

PostPosted: Thu Feb 17, 2011 10:19 am
by bldavis
Kelaan wrote:I wish our warriors were Arms ... then I could roll on 2H weapons that drop for my offspec. :D

:D
once i get her to raid content (or just another 346+ 2hd) i will prob go back to fury, but for now i am enjoying arms

Re: DK DW and TG Warriors

PostPosted: Thu Feb 17, 2011 10:32 am
by thatguy
bldavis wrote:
Kelaan wrote:I wish our warriors were Arms ... then I could roll on 2H weapons that drop for my offspec. :D

:D
once i get her to raid content (or just another 346+ 2hd) i will prob go back to fury, but for now i am enjoying arms


You blaspheme!

Fury warriors are drunken boobs that just throw themselves willy nilly at stuff. Arms warriors are strategic opportunists. I am admittedly a poor arms warrior but I find it quite fun.

Re: DK DW and TG Warriors

PostPosted: Thu Feb 17, 2011 10:39 am
by bldavis
thatguy wrote:
bldavis wrote:
Kelaan wrote:I wish our warriors were Arms ... then I could roll on 2H weapons that drop for my offspec. :D

:D
once i get her to raid content (or just another 346+ 2hd) i will prob go back to fury, but for now i am enjoying arms


You blaspheme!

Fury warriors are drunken boobs that just throw themselves willy nilly at stuff. Arms warriors are strategic opportunists. I am admittedly a poor arms warrior but I find it quite fun.

well im a dwarf at heart so does that count?

edit: oh and i am wearing a taz shirt today :twisted:

Re: DK DW and TG Warriors

PostPosted: Thu Feb 17, 2011 10:49 am
by thatguy
bldavis wrote:
well im a dwarf at heart so does that count?

edit: oh and i am wearing a taz shirt today :twisted:


You sir, are a fury warrior.

Re: DK DW and TG Warriors

PostPosted: Thu Feb 17, 2011 10:57 am
by bldavis
thatguy wrote:
bldavis wrote:
well im a dwarf at heart so does that count?

edit: oh and i am wearing a taz shirt today :twisted:


You sir, are a fury warrior.

apperently a one armed fury, so i can only use one weapon atm

Re: DK DW and TG Warriors

PostPosted: Thu Feb 17, 2011 11:05 am
by Kelaan
thatguy wrote:You sir, are a fury warrior.

/salute

That was an awesome. :D

That's interesting, though -- how competitive are arms and fury, respectively? I wonder why our guys play one or the other.

Re: DK DW and TG Warriors

PostPosted: Thu Feb 17, 2011 11:56 am
by thatguy
Kelaan wrote:
thatguy wrote:You sir, are a fury warrior.

/salute

That was an awesome. :D

That's interesting, though -- how competitive are arms and fury, respectively? I wonder why our guys play one or the other.


Based on what I'm hearing over at EJ (and I admittedly struggle to keep up with all the back and forth), fury is out-distancing arms by a decent margin. Most of it deals with the damage done during the Execute phase.

Now, arms is still viable and they bring some nice debuffs but pound for pound, fury is leading the charge. I like arms because of the procs. Some people call it babysitting but it floats my boat.

Re: DK DW and TG Warriors

PostPosted: Thu Feb 17, 2011 11:59 am
by bldavis
fury will always be ahead of arms given current design, esp at higher gear levels

arms is still really good for heroics and esp pvp
plus i enjoy watching for procs :twisted:

Re: DK DW and TG Warriors

PostPosted: Thu Feb 17, 2011 1:17 pm
by Shoju
Skye1013 wrote:Everything I've read says, it doesn't make sense to white hit cap a DK. You should soft cap (8%) and exp cap (26) and after that stack mastery, then crit. As far as TG warriors... can't help you there. Though I'm sure someone here can.


You have that a little off. Priority for a DW Frost DK

STR -> hit (8%) -> EXP (26) -> Mastery -> HASTE -> Crit -> White Hit.

Crit is a vastly devalued stat to the spec due to Killing Machine Procs.

I do not for the life of me understand why people think you need to hard cap Frost DK's. You don't have to hard cap Rogues. You don't have to hard cap ENH shaman (I'm talking white hits). The ONLY reason that Fury was/is going for white cap is because of the way rage generation works now.

We have NOTHING that works like that. 8% is plenty. Don't gem it. Reforge EXP over 26, then Crit, Then Haste. Don't touch mastery if you can help it.

Re: DK DW and TG Warriors

PostPosted: Fri Feb 18, 2011 1:04 am
by Skye1013
Consider @ EJ forums wrote:Dual Wield
Strength > Hit to cap* >= Expertise to cap > Mastery > Crit > Haste > Agility > Hit to spell cap
...
DW, on the other hand, places a premium on mastery. This isn't because it benefits more from the stat than 2H, but simply that it doesn't gain extra value from the other options! Crit is in second, with haste bringing up the rear. The reason why haste is so mediocre for the spec all comes down to the fact that DW, even in entry level gear, is near GCD locked, and thus doesn't get the full benefit that it otherwise would.

That's what I was basing my info off of.

Edit: *Note this refers to the soft cap of 8%

Re: DK DW and TG Warriors

PostPosted: Mon Feb 28, 2011 3:46 pm
by fafhrd
Kraziness wrote:However on my Fury TG warrior, in some PVP crafted gear, a few pices of JP gear, a couple of heroic items I am sitting at an easy unbuffed 18% to hit. There are still alot of pieces of gear I could go get that would increase that +hit alot too. Is it just me or why does a warrior wielding two 2H weapons seem more viable than a DK wielding two 1H weapons? What is the hit cap for TG warriors? Anyone hit cap your white hits on a TG warrior, if so how much +hit does it take? Any thoughts?


Oldish thread I guess, but TG white-hitcap is the same as everyone else, 27%. However hit is still a pretty low priority stat so you do don't particularly want 18% hit. As SMF hit is more worthwhile, but still no something you try to stack up on (at least in current tiers; I imagine that if you can hardcap it in a tier or two without significantly hurting your other stats you would do it).

Re: DK DW and TG Warriors

PostPosted: Mon Feb 28, 2011 4:14 pm
by bldavis
the only reason you would want to white-hitcap on a fury warrior is b/c your rage production is tied to getting white hits
for DW DKs that isnt a problem
your runes arent dependent on white hits to refresh

most of the guides i have seen say 8% is good enough for dks, and more is better for fury
but then again that is part of the reason i am arms right now, im too lazy to worry about hit capping for dw

Re: DK DW and TG Warriors

PostPosted: Mon Feb 28, 2011 4:22 pm
by fafhrd
bldavis wrote:the only reason you would want to white-hitcap on a fury warrior is b/c your rage production is tied to getting white hits
for DW DKs that isnt a problem
your runes arent dependent on white hits to refresh

most of the guides i have seen say 8% is good enough for dks, and more is better for fury
but then again that is part of the reason i am arms right now, im too lazy to worry about hit capping for dw


Top fury warriors in the world are running around with 6-8% hit from gear (and 3% from spec) :S Feel free to try fury, you don't need to white hit cap. You *can* use hit all the way up to 27%, but mostly you reforge it something better like crit or mastery or expertise.

Re: DK DW and TG Warriors

PostPosted: Mon Feb 28, 2011 4:25 pm
by bldavis
hmm
ok all i need now is a 346+ weapon.... lets see if i can pry one out of my guildies hands :twisted: .... :shock:
i mean ...
I WOULD NEVER DO THAT!
(oops! :oops: )

i would try SMF, but the only 1hd weps i have are tanking weapons with dodge/parry
i might as well just stay arms until i get another 2hd

Re: DK DW and TG Warriors

PostPosted: Fri Mar 04, 2011 3:24 pm
by Shoju
you could.... craft them.... but that is just silly talk really.

Re: DK DW and TG Warriors

PostPosted: Fri Mar 04, 2011 3:57 pm
by bldavis
Shoju wrote:you could.... craft them.... but that is just silly talk really.

well i could, but my BS paladin is still on drenden

i did get another 333 weapon, so im trying out SMF
im debating if i should switch back to arms until i get a 2hd and go TG
or i could use my tanking weapon.....that way i would have 2 346 weapons
choices choices

Re: DK DW and TG Warriors

PostPosted: Fri Mar 04, 2011 11:18 pm
by Skye1013
bldavis wrote:
Shoju wrote:you could.... craft them.... but that is just silly talk really.

well i could, but my BS paladin is still on drenden

i did get another 333 weapon, so im trying out SMF
im debating if i should switch back to arms until i get a 2hd and go TG
or i could use my tanking weapon.....that way i would have 2 346 weapons
choices choices

These "tanking" weapons... are they avoidance/avoidance, threat/avoidance, mastery/avoidance? If it's either of the last two... just reforge and have fun until you're able to get a "dps" weapon.

Re: DK DW and TG Warriors

PostPosted: Sat Mar 05, 2011 12:17 am
by bldavis
threat/mastery reforged hit to dodge, enchanted with mending
the other is hit/exp with weapon chain

Re: DK DW and TG Warriors

PostPosted: Sat Mar 05, 2011 12:38 am
by Skye1013
bldavis wrote:threat/mastery reforged hit to dodge, enchanted with mending
the other is hit/exp with weapon chain

So other than the enchants/current reforges... what makes this exclusively a "tanking" weapon?

Re: DK DW and TG Warriors

PostPosted: Sat Mar 05, 2011 12:46 am
by bldavis
Skye1013 wrote:
bldavis wrote:threat/mastery reforged hit to dodge, enchanted with mending
the other is hit/exp with weapon chain

So other than the enchants/current reforges... what makes this exclusively a "tanking" weapon?

the fact that its teh one i use for my tanking set :?

i only have 2 346 weapons, so i use teh one with mastery as my tanking weapon

Re: DK DW and TG Warriors

PostPosted: Mon Mar 07, 2011 10:46 am
by Kelaan
bldavis wrote:threat/mastery reforged hit to dodge, enchanted with mending...


Is Mending actually worth anything for DKs? I get more out of SoI so I decided that 1% of my total healing was lackluster.