Remove Advertisements

[Holy] Anyone found soft "caps" to Spirit and Haste amouns?

Ret, Holy, PVP, etc

Moderators: Fridmarr, Worldie, Aergis, Baelor

Re: [Holy] Anyone found soft "caps" to Spirit and Haste amouns?

Postby rodos » Thu Feb 03, 2011 4:23 pm

I still haven't got any raiding done, but from 5-man experience regen is godly. As I've geared up, I just find myself not casting HL as much. If an injured dps is > 50% health I wait out HS cooldown and use that, or wait until he gets hurt a bit more, DL and move on. For the tank, again, I generally wait until a DL would not be over-heal and use that. With good regen you can also spam FoL for a few seconds if something goes bad and recover after. Not spamming HL and being able to FoL when required really reduce the relative value of haste (it's still a good stat, but nothing like it was in WotLK).
User avatar
rodos
 
Posts: 1120
Joined: Mon Sep 24, 2007 8:20 pm

Re: [Holy] Anyone found soft "caps" to Spirit and Haste amouns?

Postby sherck » Fri Feb 04, 2011 5:31 am

Now that I have raided a couple of weeks (have Halfus, V&T, Magmaw, Conclave and BT down), I can say that my experience is tending towards this kind of weighting:

Intellect > Spirit >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Crit = Haste >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mastery

I concur now that Spirit is almost equal in weighting to Intellect.

In my opinion, both have now become both "throughput" and "regen" stats because more Intellect gives you all the normal stuff (higher initial mana for regen, higher SP for throughput, Crit for throughput, etc) and Spirit now gives you more ability to cast FoL/DL more times which is your throughput increase.

Mastery just seem to be completely.....a non-factor in my gameplay. I rarely notice a bubble. Yeah, yeah, the little symbol shows up on my frames and....oh, wait, it is gone now... Sure, WoL shows some absorbs but it is such a small percentage of my overall "healing" that I just don't see it.

Crit and Haste, on the other hand, still seems to be a gameplay changer.

Crit increases my throughput by a whole 9% (with Conviction) and perhaps, perhaps allows me to not cast that next spell if a crit happens that does enough to keep that DPS at an "acceptable" level of health.

As for Haste, not counting the faster tick time of Holy Radiance, when I cast a Holy Light while in my questing/farming Ret spec, I NOTICE how long it is (little Haste, no -0.5 sec talent) while in Holy, I press HL/DL and then decide where my next cast is going and press it knowing my HL/DL is done/about done.

So, I guess my "new" rule of thumb says:

If the piece has Spirit on it, upgrade. The weighting of the other stats will not matter in the face of the increased amount of Intellect and Spirit on the up-tier piece.

Crit and Haste are better than Mastery as the "other" stat on equal-tier pieces.

If the piece has no Spirit on it, avoid it unless it is equal to or greater than a 2 Tier (26 Item Level) upgrade. Even then, I like the whole "add Intellect plus Spirit together and if they are close or equal, upgrade for the addition of the other secondary stats" that someone mentioned upstream.

Cheers,
sherck
 
Posts: 1475
Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2008 7:57 am

Re: [Holy] Anyone found soft "caps" to Spirit and Haste amouns?

Postby rodos » Sun Feb 06, 2011 6:18 pm

Hmm. So saying that you would take:

[Winking Eye of Love] - 168 int, 109 spi, 114 crit

over:

[Lightning Flash Pendant] - 190 int, 127 crit, 127 mast

If you consider mastery junk, and reforge, you get +22 int, -59 spi, +13 crit from the epic.

I guess I should roll need on that blue tonight. Besides the stats, the name is far more epic. :mrgreen:
User avatar
rodos
 
Posts: 1120
Joined: Mon Sep 24, 2007 8:20 pm

Re: [Holy] Anyone found soft "caps" to Spirit and Haste amouns?

Postby sherck » Mon Feb 07, 2011 5:15 am

rodos wrote:Hmm. So saying that you would take:

[Winking Eye of Love] - 168 int, 109 spi, 114 crit

over:

[Lightning Flash Pendant] - 190 int, 127 crit, 127 mast

If you consider mastery junk, and reforge, you get +22 int, -59 spi, +13 crit from the epic.

I guess I should roll need on that blue tonight. Besides the stats, the name is far more epic. :mrgreen:


I would, yes.

While the extra Intellect and Crit are good, the downgrade of Spirit is, in my opinion, a killer. If I have the mana (which will be provided by Spirit during an encounter), then my throughput increase is by casting more FoL and DL over my "normal" rotation of HS/HL/WoG/DR.

I don't believe my throughput increase comes from more Haste for faster Holy Light. I comes from FoL/DL and that is only sustained by more mana from Spirit.

Others may be trending another direction, but I am basing my opinion on both my observations from my (abit, limited) raiding experience AND from how Blizzard allocated stats on the Tier-11 gear.

I think there is a reason that none of the Tier pieces no not have Haste on them and I don't think it is because Blizzard hates us. I think it is because they want to try to "force" more Healadins into the style of play that they have redesigned the spec for and I think this is it.

Cheers,

[EDIT: Because English is HARD!]
sherck
 
Posts: 1475
Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2008 7:57 am

Re: [Holy] Anyone found soft "caps" to Spirit and Haste amouns?

Postby Minarva » Mon Feb 07, 2011 5:39 am

I figured I would weigh in on this discussion as someone who has swapped from tanking to holy full-time since the end of Wrath and has done extensive raiding/testing on the subject. Firstly, there seems to be some confusion amongst everyone here about stat weightings, and it is important to stress that it is nearly impossible to have accurate weightings because they depend on playstyle and vary dramatically with gear. I will however attempt to summarise my experience and what seems to be the experience of many from EJ and paragon in particular:

Firstly, int is king still, and is often worth ignoring socket bonuses in order to maximise it. After spirit, haste is king of secondary stats and in many cases can come before spirit (you will see most of us using the band of secret names and reforging the crit to spirit as haste/spirit rings are hard to come by). There are "soft caps" to haste where the value of haste increases momentarily as you approach, which are the holy radiance breakpoints.

#Ticks Haste Needed Rating DF Heroism DF + Hero Duration
10 0.0% 0.0% 0 0 0 0 10.00
11 5.0% 0.0% 0 0 0 0 10.48
12 15.0% 0.0% 0 0 0 0 10.43
13 25.0% 6.0% 773.1 0 0 0 10.40
14 35.0% 14.5% 1859.4 0 0 0 10.37
15 45.0% 23.0% 2945.7 320.4 0 0 10.34
16 55.0% 31.5% 4032.0 1225.7 146.4 0 10.32
17 65.0% 40.0% 5118.3 2130.9 982.0 0 10.30
18 75.0% 48.5% 6204.6 3036.2 1817.6 0 10.29
19 85.0% 56.9% 7290.9 3941.4 2653.2 76.7 10.27
20 95.0% 65.4% 8377.2 4846.7 3488.8 773.1 10.26
21 105.0% 73.9% 9463.5 5751.9 4324.4 1469.4 10.24
22 115.0% 82.4% 10549.8 6657.2 5160.1 2165.8 10.23
23 125.0% 90.9% 11636.1 7562.4 5995.7 2862.1 10.22
24 135.0% 99.3% 12722.4 8467.7 6831.3 3558.5 10.21

This is taken directly from Elitist jerks, with full credit to Nodrak with a source of http://elitistjerks.com/f76/t110847-hol ... ompendium/ .
As you can see from, admittedly the poorly formatted, table haste rating has some interesting breaks with holy radiance, which is a significant heal in the majority of raids, give or take a few like halfus. What is important is realising that these are so plentiful that you can't really view them as caps at all, but it might be worth bearing in mind if you find yourself with 1850 haste rating that getting an extra 10 from somewhere would give you an entire tick extra.

As mentioned, there is no spirit cap that is calculable. You need enough (along with intellect, remembering that intellect increases the value of spirit) to keep you going out of mana using a reasonable throughput for the requirements. As for myself, I currently raid 25 man heroics (just started yesterday and killed Halfus after 16 pulls) and I find mana not being overly stressful, although I am significantly more mana efficient/healing done compared to our other holy paladins. With the mana tide nerf however, mana will become more stressful, but I don't think damage in heroics is allowing you to overly prio spirit over haste. You can check my armory at http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/a ... a/advanced and my logs at http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/ub271vui1007pqgc/ for a better understanding of how I gear and play for the content I'm at (maintain the thought though that holy radiance for most other fights is a much more significant part of healing done, other than Chimaeron). One thing to note is that I already have a large proportion of divine lights in order to keep up with damage on tanks in the encounter, and have a roughly even amount of healing done through FoL and HL purely because spikes need to be beaten with FoL.

TL;DR

Int >>>Spirit=/>Haste>>>>>>Crit>>>>>>>>>>>>Mastery for myself.

As a final note, don't use the tier gear, its badly itemised and other classes will gain far more from it. The best gear you can get will be int/spirit/haste gear with ideally no reforging, but if you look at my armory posted earlier you can get a good idea of interim gear.

EDIT: To address the OP, haste will always be better than crit. Spirit will always remain better than crit with hardmode damage and MTT nerfs. Consider Crit and Mastery as junk.
Minarva
 
Posts: 123
Joined: Tue Jul 08, 2008 12:58 pm

Re: [Holy] Anyone found soft "caps" to Spirit and Haste amouns?

Postby sherck » Mon Feb 07, 2011 8:41 am

Minarva wrote:TL;DR

Int >>>Spirit=/>Haste>>>>>>Crit>>>>>>>>>>>>Mastery for myself.

As a final note, don't use the tier gear, its badly itemised and other classes will gain far more from it. The best gear you can get will be int/spirit/haste gear with ideally no reforging, but if you look at my armory posted earlier you can get a good idea of interim gear.

EDIT: To address the OP, haste will always be better than crit. Spirit will always remain better than crit with hardmode damage and MTT nerfs. Consider Crit and Mastery as junk.


Point #1: I totally agree that Haste makes Holy Radiance better; no doubt about it. 773 Haste is dead easy to get in 346 gear. 1859 Haste is a bit of a stretch that you will have to work on to get (reforge, enchant and/or gem for it). 2945 Haste seems out of reach at the moment; perhaps if you are fully 359/372 geared you could hit it but in my current gearing of 345, it is out of reach.

Point #2: Have you raided as a 10-man?

My perception would be in Cata that as a 25-man healer (which I have not done), you have the potential luxury of "job-sharing" healing assignments and being able to maxize your efficiency over, perhaps, your throughput. If you can do your healing assignment with primarily HS/HL/WoG/HR/LoD (our "efficient" spell set) and only resort to using FoL/DL on, say, 1 out of 7 casts or greater (casting FoL/DL once for every 7 other healing spells cast or less often), then maximizing Haste is probably going to do you very well. More Haste means more Holy Light and Holy Radiance, means shorter GCD for Holy Shock means more WoG/LoD casts.

However, I can tell you that as a 10-man raider with a raid group that is getting bosses down but in no way overgear any of the encounters yet (except BH boss), my cast rate of FoL/DL is more like 1 out of every 4 heals casts rather than 1 out of 7 or 8 or 9 because the throughput is just brutal. If I was using the "efficiency" cast set, my heal targets would be eating dirt.

And Haste has little effect on FoL (already fast enough) and while it would help the cast time of Divine Light, I don't really want to be casting it faster because that means I am going OOM faster.

Haste just seems to lose a TON of its appeal if you are casting FoL and DL to increase your throughput.

Point #3: How much do you FoL in raid?

My point being is that if your response to that question is "yuck, FoL sucks and I never use it" then I would submit that your play style is MUCH different than mine. I have to FoL raid members in order to save them from death because if I tried to just use Holy Light (even hasted), it would be too slow and too small of a heal to save them.

Point #4: If I am going to use FoL/DL to increase my throughput (instead of trying to stack haste in order to increase my throughput via Holy Light), then I need more mana and better in combat regen. Thus, I need more Spirit and Intellect and should do everything I can to maximize those two stats.

TL:DR

I wonder about if the whole "Haste is best after Intellect and perhaps Spirit" crowd are primarily 25-man healers (I know the majority of EJ posters are. I keep up with the thread on a daily basis). I think that model fits 25-man raiding much, much better than 10-man raiding.

My observation in 10-man raiding is that there is too much responsibilty for both tank healing and raid healing for any individual healer to not have to consider throughput over efficiency at certain phases of the fight. And to do that, I think that Holy Light cannot be maxized enough to be the "go to" heal for 10-man, FoL and DL will be used and if you do that, Haste loses a ton of its appeal.

I am doing this week's raid having reforged everything away from Haste to Crit and removing Tower of Radiance from my build (with Blessed Life, Eternal Glory and Pursuit of Justice maxxed for Holy Power generation). I will be interested in comparing logs this week to my performance in past weeks in order to see how things compare.

Cheers,
sherck
 
Posts: 1475
Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2008 7:57 am

Re: [Holy] Anyone found soft "caps" to Spirit and Haste amouns?

Postby Aanar » Mon Feb 07, 2011 11:26 am

I wonder how much of the difference in experiences is due to those that have +spirit on use trinkets and combine it with the current mana tide totem and those that don't.

The two that I know of off-hand are the JC dream owl and the one for 1650 valor points. I image those that are working on heroic raids certainly have the valor point ones whereas people just getting going (like me 2/12) do not unless they're a JC.

I know when my resto shaman got her JC owl it made a world of difference.
Aanar
 
Posts: 201
Joined: Mon Jun 30, 2008 9:26 am

Re: [Holy] Anyone found soft "caps" to Spirit and Haste amouns?

Postby Epimer » Tue Feb 08, 2011 5:53 am

sherck wrote:However, I can tell you that as a 10-man raider with a raid group that is getting bosses down but in no way overgear any of the encounters yet (except BH boss), my cast rate of FoL/DL is more like 1 out of every 4 heals casts rather than 1 out of 7 or 8 or 9 because the throughput is just brutal. If I was using the "efficiency" cast set, my heal targets would be eating dirt.

My observation in 10-man raiding is that there is too much responsibilty for both tank healing and raid healing for any individual healer to not have to consider throughput over efficiency at certain phases of the fight. And to do that, I think that Holy Light cannot be maxized enough to be the "go to" heal for 10-man, FoL and DL will be used and if you do that, Haste loses a ton of its appeal.


I'm a 10 man raider. The only fight I healed on this week was Valiona, but that was with another Holy Paladin (so I'm using him as the basis for comparison here, rather than me, since he is objectively a better Holy Paladin than I am). He managed 12k HPS, while casting 7 Flash of Lights over the nearly 6 minute kill (or 3.1% of his total healing done), and 0 Divine Lights. By happy coincidence, I also cast only 7 FoLs (4.1% of my total healing) and 0 Divine Lights.

From memory, the only times I used FoL were to quickly top someone up who was caught by the flame breath thing, to quickly top someone up who had positioned themselves badly and hence was out of range of the healers for a long time, and to quickly heal some people who were low when a meteor was incoming. Those situations where someone was only a second or two from death were few and far between, and it was rarer still to have such a situation which didn't coincide with Holy Shock being (almost) off cooldown. I don't think it's true to say that 10 man raiders are necessarily forced to use more FoL or DL casts purely because of that raid size, at least in my experience.
User avatar
Epimer
 
Posts: 1496
Joined: Wed Jun 18, 2008 6:54 am

Re: [Holy] Anyone found soft "caps" to Spirit and Haste amouns?

Postby sherck » Tue Feb 08, 2011 7:02 am

Epimer wrote:I'm a 10 man raider. The only fight I healed on this week was Valiona, but that was with another Holy Paladin (so I'm using him as the basis for comparison here, rather than me, since he is objectively a better Holy Paladin than I am). He managed 12k HPS, while casting 7 Flash of Lights over the nearly 6 minute kill (or 3.1% of his total healing done), and 0 Divine Lights. By happy coincidence, I also cast only 7 FoLs (4.1% of my total healing) and 0 Divine Lights.

From memory, the only times I used FoL were to quickly top someone up who was caught by the flame breath thing, to quickly top someone up who had positioned themselves badly and hence was out of range of the healers for a long time, and to quickly heal some people who were low when a meteor was incoming. Those situations where someone was only a second or two from death were few and far between, and it was rarer still to have such a situation which didn't coincide with Holy Shock being (almost) off cooldown. I don't think it's true to say that 10 man raiders are necessarily forced to use more FoL or DL casts purely because of that raid size, at least in my experience.


That is good stuff, thanks for sharing. 3 thoughts:

1. 12k HPS? Holy crud; I can only do about 8.5k - 9.0k HPS. Granted, we are still 3 healing all the fights so if we went with 2 healer it would be different but that is some very fine healing; especially since he did not resort to using DL at all and FoL very little.

2. V&T is not a very healing intensive fight; i.e. you rarely have to heal someone up quickly to get ready for the next boss mechanic. The couple of primary mechanics are all execution based and if your raid is doing it correctly, there are very few "oh crud" moments in that fight. Also, tank damage is not very high without the mechanics.

Phase 1: If you all crash together on the dragon's tail to split the damage, Holy Radiance completely takes care of the damage (especially if you have 2 Healadins using it). You can avoid the majority of the flame breath just by reacting quickly. If you stay spread out at ranged, you rarely have to heal quickly from the attack that chains.

Phase 2: Yeah, the ranged group takes some damage but it is not a ton and easily healed through with the use your "efficient" spells.

Transition: Left, middle, right. Raid member responsibility to react correctly. Typically, not healing intensive.

As long as your raid is doing the mechanics correctly, there is very few times on V&T where multiple "specials" are happening at one time and take people to critical health levels.

3. All of my earlier theory and discussion on the relative worth of Haste is so much Bull Chit. I ran some Heroics yesterday and my HPS were almost 2k lower than they had been in my Haste maximized setup. At current gearing levels, FoL cannot be used as much as I was thinking it could be in order to get "fast" heals off and the cast time of Holy Light or Divine Light without the Haste were....terrible. There is no way to react to damage fast enough.

SO, Mea Culpa, my theory was wrong and I have reforged back to Haste (900 without reforging to it, 1700 with reforging to it).

Stat weighting should continue to be:

Intellect >>>>>>>>>>>>> Spirit > Haste >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Crit > Mastery

Cheers,
sherck
 
Posts: 1475
Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2008 7:57 am

Re: [Holy] Anyone found soft "caps" to Spirit and Haste amouns?

Postby Epimer » Tue Feb 08, 2011 7:49 am

sherck wrote:
1. 12k HPS? Holy crud; I can only do about 8.5k - 9.0k HPS. Granted, we are still 3 healing all the fights so if we went with 2 healer it would be different but that is some very fine healing; especially since he did not resort to using DL at all and FoL very little.


We three-healed it but honestly two would have been plenty. He was at 12k, I was at 8k and our new resto shaman was at 6.5k. Those lower numbers are, I think, a reflection of the fact that we didn't need three healers and low HPS is a reflection of not much more healing needed.

For a bigger sample size from this week's raids (data for the other guy, not me, as he's better and actually healed all of these fights whereas I was tanking):

Atramedes - 11k HPS, 11 FoL (6.9%), 0 DL.
Cho'gall, averaged over 9 wipes since we didn't get a kill - ~11k HPS, 87 FoL (3.2%), 17 DL (1.0%).
Conclave - 7.3k HPS, 7 FoL (4.9%), 0 DL.
Halfus - 8k HPS, 8 FoL (3.5%), 1 DL (0.6%).
Twilight Ascendant Council - 12.7k HPS, 24 FoL (13.8%), 0 DL.
Magmaw - 12k HPS, 11 FoL (3.9%), 0 DL.
Omnotron - 10.5k HPS, 18 FoL, (7.6%), 1 DL (0.7%).
Maloriak - 9k HPS, 9 FoL (6.2%), 0 DL.

So really the only fight in which FoL was a significant portion of his healing was our Twilight Council kill. This week, however, we had no interrupts in Feludius in P1 (well, we had me, but I was terrible at it and stopped maybe 1 bolt going off) which would necessitate heavier FoL usage to stabilise someone. And also P3 is a bit spammy. Overall it was a sloppier kill than usual and I imagine that would necssarily up the FoL usage.
User avatar
Epimer
 
Posts: 1496
Joined: Wed Jun 18, 2008 6:54 am

Re: [Holy] Anyone found soft "caps" to Spirit and Haste amouns?

Postby Forgrim » Tue Feb 08, 2011 8:21 am

Sometimes its really hard to gauge a well done healing job only based on HPS. Typically, I have the assignment of healing the Tank/OT and my fellow priest/druid healing takes care of most of the raid damage so they'll show higher HPS. If I popped Cone and Radiance on Cooldowns, my HPS can go off the charts.

Also, 12k comparison to your 8k seems more like an equipment issue if anything, considering the same amount of heals you used. That, or he has a higher reaction time compared to you to heal others.

I do like that little mini chart you created, showing different healing styles. I have almost never used FL on most of the fights, strangely enough. I almost exclusively chain DL unless its a very low period of damage time. It is however since I consider holy pallys having the strongest single target healing and am usually assigned to a tank that is getting burst down.

I also swap my beacon around every now and then, which does reduce my own HPS.

I do get made fun of my overhealing done all the time (Beacon of Light, Cone, and Self Healing makes up 95% of my OH). Gotta love my pally.

edit: My own HPS ranges from 8k-12k depending on my role in the fight.
Forgrim
 
Posts: 122
Joined: Thu Dec 09, 2010 11:11 am

Re: [Holy] Anyone found soft "caps" to Spirit and Haste amouns?

Postby Epimer » Tue Feb 08, 2011 8:50 am

Forgrim wrote:Also, 12k comparison to your 8k seems more like an equipment issue if anything, considering the same amount of heals you used. That, or he has a higher reaction time compared to you to heal others.


I'm honestly not bothered by the difference. Yes, he has better gear than me (his main spec vs. my off spec), which is noticeable in the effect his higher haste has on the number of spells cast per encounter, but he's also just better at healing than I am, since I heal maybe 2 (raid) bosses a week and he's healing on 9-10, has been MS Holy since forever etc etc.
User avatar
Epimer
 
Posts: 1496
Joined: Wed Jun 18, 2008 6:54 am

Re: [Holy] Anyone found soft "caps" to Spirit and Haste amouns?

Postby Minarva » Tue Feb 08, 2011 9:24 am

I posted some logs to show where and how I heal in 25, but I can tell you (as I happen to know) that 25s tend to be slightly more AOE healing orientated, but for the most part the same amount of healing is required per healer in 25 and 10. I barely use HL in heroic fights.

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/ub27 ... boss=44600

This log shows the sort of healing breakdown that I use in the difficult fights (ignore the fact that we have so many disc priests, Halfus is an oddity there but the breakdown is still good), where you can see that divine light has already become king and I am getting more healing out of flash than HL also. I also dismay that you choose to compare gearsets based on heroics (I assume you meant 5 mans). Heroics aren't any test of how good gear and stats are (I mean come on, HPS comparisons in dungeons mean nothing), but at least your conclusion is correct that spirit/int/haste gear is the best.

You must ALL get out of the mindset that meters and HPS makes you a better healer, we are not DPSers or tanks racing against omen. If your assignments don't die, you win. If nobody dies, then the only point of meters is to show who helped other people with their assignments faster. I could quite easily get 15k HPS in most fights by spamming light of dawn no matter if someone is critical or not, and just going around sniping everyone else's assignments. I may do 9k more HPS than everyone else there, but if I was assigned to tanks and the tank died because I was just raid healing than I am holding everyone back.

Haste is better than other stats, holy radiance or not, period. It allows you to react faster to damage spikes, which is so key in heroic raids I cannot stress. It's also amazing for Chimaeron and keeping everyone above 10k. Divine light WILL be your go-to heal when you all start heroic raids, and haste is so godly for it it is insane.

And Haste has little effect on FoL (already fast enough) and while it would help the cast time of Divine Light, I don't really want to be casting it faster because that means I am going OOM faster.

This is flawed logic. You must heal as much as damage taken demands, mana or not. If you are forced to use divine light, its because damage is high enough that holy light is a waste of time, but not flashing because someone won't die in the 0.7 seconds or so difference between the casts. If you continue to spam Divine light after this fact, it should be because damage is demanding it, not because your casts are faster so you can over-heal faster. Mana plays no part in haste being better or worse, and I see this argument alot so I figured I would address this, your heals are just as efficient with more haste or without - they still do the same amount of healing for the same amount of mana.
If your encounters are forcing you to spam FoL, then you are doing things wrong somewhere. FoL does not suck, but it is hardly going to be the largest portion of healing done given the encounters as they are right now. FoL should be doing a similar amount of healing as Holy light, if not less. As Epimer mentions, there shouldn't be that many casts of FoL - even on heroic encounters where damage spikes are king like halfus it was only 8.8% of my healing which I think other than Chimaeron heroic will be the most amount of healing I do with FoL.
Minarva
 
Posts: 123
Joined: Tue Jul 08, 2008 12:58 pm

Re: [Holy] Anyone found soft "caps" to Spirit and Haste amouns?

Postby Minarva » Tue Feb 08, 2011 9:24 am

I posted some logs to show where and how I heal in 25, but I can tell you (as I happen to know) that 25s tend to be slightly more AOE healing orientated, but for the most part the same amount of healing is required per healer in 25 and 10. I barely use HL in heroic fights.

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/ub27 ... boss=44600

This log shows the sort of healing breakdown that I use in the difficult fights (ignore the fact that we have so many disc priests, Halfus is an oddity there but the breakdown is still good), where you can see that divine light has already become king and I am getting more healing out of flash than HL also. I also dismay that you choose to compare gearsets based on heroics (I assume you meant 5 mans). Heroics aren't any test of how good gear and stats are (I mean come on, HPS comparisons in dungeons mean nothing), but at least your conclusion is correct that spirit/int/haste gear is the best.

You must ALL get out of the mindset that meters and HPS makes you a better healer, we are not DPSers or tanks racing against omen. If your assignments don't die, you win. If nobody dies, then the only point of meters is to show who helped other people with their assignments faster. I could quite easily get 15k HPS in most fights by spamming light of dawn no matter if someone is critical or not, and just going around sniping everyone else's assignments. I may do 9k more HPS than everyone else there, but if I was assigned to tanks and the tank died because I was just raid healing than I am holding everyone back.

Haste is better than other stats, holy radiance or not, period. It allows you to react faster to damage spikes, which is so key in heroic raids I cannot stress. It's also amazing for Chimaeron and keeping everyone above 10k. Divine light WILL be your go-to heal when you all start heroic raids, and haste is so godly for it it is insane.

And Haste has little effect on FoL (already fast enough) and while it would help the cast time of Divine Light, I don't really want to be casting it faster because that means I am going OOM faster.

This is flawed logic. You must heal as much as damage taken demands, mana or not. If you are forced to use divine light, its because damage is high enough that holy light is a waste of time, but not flashing because someone won't die in the 0.7 seconds or so difference between the casts. If you continue to spam Divine light after this fact, it should be because damage is demanding it, not because your casts are faster so you can over-heal faster. Mana plays no part in haste being better or worse, and I see this argument alot so I figured I would address this, your heals are just as efficient with more haste or without - they still do the same amount of healing for the same amount of mana.
If your encounters are forcing you to spam FoL, then you are doing things wrong somewhere. FoL does not suck, but it is hardly going to be the largest portion of healing done given the encounters as they are right now. FoL should be doing a similar amount of healing as Holy light, if not less. As Epimer mentions, there shouldn't be that many casts of FoL - even on heroic encounters where damage spikes are king like halfus it was only 8.8% of my healing which I think other than Chimaeron heroic will be the most amount of healing I do with FoL.
Minarva
 
Posts: 123
Joined: Tue Jul 08, 2008 12:58 pm

Re: [Holy] Anyone found soft "caps" to Spirit and Haste amouns?

Postby Aanar » Tue Feb 08, 2011 12:27 pm

I healed my first caty dungeon with my Holy Paladin last night, and I think I understand a little better why Paladin healers emphasize haste more than the other healers (I've mostly played a holy priest and resto shaman before this).

Paladins seem much more GCD constrained than my other 2 healers. They're chain casting too of course, but don't have to squeeze in judgement, holy shock, and wog. Mana wasn't ever a problem (which was good because I forgot to buy level 85 water :-O in my rush to get gems and enchants before my LFD group popped)

Conversely, when my other two healers were fresh 85s in ilvl 329, mana was the big problem, not GCDs.

Just my thoughts.
Aanar
 
Posts: 201
Joined: Mon Jun 30, 2008 9:26 am

PreviousNext

Return to Off-specs & Other Classes

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


Remove Advertisements

Who is online

In total there is 1 user online :: 0 registered, 0 hidden and 1 guest (based on users active over the past 5 minutes)
Most users ever online was 380 on Tue Oct 14, 2008 6:28 pm

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest