Prot PVP @ 85

Ret, Holy, PVP, etc

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Re: Prot PVP @ 85

Postby Ojimaru » Sun Jan 09, 2011 11:21 pm

Sleetza wrote:Personally i go for hit/expertise cap, then strength. Crit is nice too.

I'm a little confused as to what the hit and expertise caps are. I hear some say 5%, others 6% (for hit) and then others simply disregard expertise.
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Re: Prot PVP @ 85

Postby Sleetza » Tue Jan 11, 2011 7:46 pm

Ojimaru wrote:
Sleetza wrote:Personally i go for hit/expertise cap, then strength. Crit is nice too.

I'm a little confused as to what the hit and expertise caps are. I hear some say 5%, others 6% (for hit) and then others simply disregard expertise.


Dont know the pvp-numbers by head, but just go for 0% misses and stuff at lvl 85 targets. Servers are down and cba to check the hard way (because you couldnt either :wink: ).
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Re: Prot PVP @ 85

Postby Sleetza » Mon Jan 17, 2011 9:21 am

I've just gotten the epic trinket with some resilience and about 1,6k strength on use. Its on 2 minute cooldown and provides awesome bust.

get 3 Holy Power, judgement, trinket+wings (red wings=cool!), SotR, DP, SotR, CS, HoJ CS, Judgement, CS, SotR = win. Tricky to pop without HoJ/trinket available. Good opponents will cc/kite you during it.

I feel I should have rolled a human instead of a draenei so I could use the racial instead of the insignia-trinket. 2 on-use trinkets on 2 minute cooldown paired with wings = awesomesauce.
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Re: Prot PVP @ 85

Postby Shyrtandros » Mon Jan 17, 2011 3:01 pm

I've been rocking 2 nights of prot WARRIOR pvp and it's been intense... almost nothing in equal like gear has a chance in touching me...

I figure it'd be about the same as my pally if I tried.. looks awesome.
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Re: Prot PVP @ 85

Postby Astronomic » Tue Jan 18, 2011 12:55 pm

Prot warriors are way more annoying than prot pallies to kill in my experience because they have a multitude of stuns where as a pallies basically got healz that (aside from WoG) are interuptable. And when i interupt that they are locked out of holy spells for another 5 seconds. However as a feral druid with thorns glyphd all I really hafta do is keep thorns up + bear form and you will more or less kill yourself overtime. :D
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Re: Prot PVP @ 85

Postby Sleetza » Tue Jan 18, 2011 5:34 pm

Sure, wanna duel? :)
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Re: Prot PVP @ 85

Postby Vort » Tue Jan 18, 2011 6:06 pm

As a joke the MT of my guild and I decided to do some Prot 2v2. Prot Paladin and Prot Warrior.

Pretty sure out of the 12 odd games we've played together we've only lost once, and that was simply because we were unsure of how to handle the situation.

With the magnitude of stuns (timed right we can keep one person locked down for up to 10 seconds) and interupts between us we were able to lock down entirely one person whilst putting out a fair level of damage on them, and regardless of who they attacked it was like punching a brick wall. In one instance we oomed a druid warrior team, twice.

I ran some prot paly in 3's with a warlock and holy paladin, managed to win 7 out of 8 games due to me charging in and putting people on the back foot. We nearly lost to a resto druid, survival hunter, ele shaman though. Our lock got bursted with CC going out and then we were down 3-2 with the other 3 on full HP. My holy paly had given up at this stage, and I was getting focused while my holy paly ran LoS so I decided to go out with a bang and try and clobber the druid, hit my buffs and wings etc and smashed him for 25k SotR (Vengeance is good in PVP too!) After seeing that, I hit my Plea and got another 25k SotR with a SD proc. My holy paly was curious and decided to heal me and we stunned the druid and killed him inside of the HoJ. The ele shaman and hunter then tried to kite me to no avail, switched to SoI and just kept my heals up and slowly killed the shaman. The hunter spat on me so my holy paly and I pulled out Hand of Rag and Ashkandi and slowly meleed him down.

It's going to become quite viable with rebuke, we just need to get strats and stuff sorted. We've got good interupts and decent support abilities with amazing survivability, and don't forget our SD procs can hit hard.
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Re: Prot PVP @ 85

Postby Kelaan » Wed Jan 19, 2011 2:12 pm

I always forget about Sacred Duty. I need a power aura or something to indicate when it's up, I guess.

I've been doing 2v2s with a survival hunter. It's been good so far -- we have about a 50% win ratio. It's interesting how player skill works, though. One warlock/warrior pair we faced died FAST, and the other pair just took our lunches and ate it while we died.

I really like Avenger's Shield as an opener versus mages or other casters -- it really seems to screw with their planned opening, especially when they're trying to CC someone. Interestingly, rogues are pretty hard to kill -- half the damage seems to be nature damage, and SoInsight doesn't prevent them from stealthing. Yikes. Combine that with Recuperate, and it gets ugly. I don't know HOW I beat the one that I faced -- I was lucky.

It's fun enough that I'm planning to stick with this comp as long as I can, and then (once I get enough resilience) try and find a healer or other friend to do 3s with.
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Re: Prot PVP @ 85

Postby Sleetza » Wed Jan 19, 2011 6:26 pm

Did find another prot pally with 3,1k ish resilience just like me. Did do some 2v2, we actually won everything except the odd healer/damage combo. We lost 2 matches against a warrior with a druid with 3500 resilience and a shitload regen. He did outrun us, we couldnt burn him down because of the regen and couldnt get him oom on the warrior either. Our best try was us running behind pillars so the dps had to come to us out LoS of his healer and try to burst him down while using LoS/HoJ on the druid. I can imagine shamans can do the same with ghostwolf but they dont have cyclonespam, which should make survivability MUCH better since 2 prot pallies easily outheal a dps if they want to. When rebuke gets baseline we'll have more tools to use LoS/spelllockout/HoJ while burning down the dps. Other then that we pretty much facerolled teams with 2 dps, bad restodruids without gear, one time it got to 1v1 where i died because i bursted down a DK but the other prot pally killed the holy pally.

Basically a geared/skilled healer with insane resilience + a class who does high dps and can slow both of us are really hard to beat but by pulling them apart, then bursting the dps while stunning the healer works really good.
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Re: Prot PVP @ 85

Postby ZeroKewl » Sat Jan 29, 2011 4:20 pm

Can anyone post their talent builds? I am quite enjoying pvping on my pally, and so far have been doing it in ret spec. Think I need to convert over.
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Re: Prot PVP @ 85

Postby letmebreathe » Sun Jan 30, 2011 2:08 am

http://www.wowhead.com/talent#sZhrrcRzdRRudbG:k0sdkRmcz

Is what I have started to use. Its more aimed at offensive pvp then Def, try going into holy if you spamming WoG a lot.

Also open to ideas or modifactions to the build.

Cheers,
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Re: Prot PVP @ 85

Postby Sleetza » Sun Jan 30, 2011 8:55 am

If you want to go offensive (which you should IMO) then you should certainly take Crusade over Eye for an Eye. Ive tried 3/3 Crusade and 2/2 Improved Judgement and Ive tried 3/3 Crusade and 2/2 Eye for an Eye. In arena's you need that ranged attack and if your opponents are smart they dont focus fire you so it has no use anyway. If theyre not then Eye for an Eye shouldnt be needed. You cant spellreflect people till death anyway, let alone spellreflect anything else then casters. Chances are youre getting double mage but then just use GoAK at the start with WoG-spam (I got WoG macroed to cancel Divine Plea so I can use DP for an emergency 3HP WoG) and you should be fine. The ranged attack is usable against any setup, and Crusade is just a must-have since our damage output is relatively low.
Divine Guardian is powerfull in group-pvp. I've excluded it because my main-focus are 2s and since it doesnt work on myself its not THAT good. In bigger setups like mass world-pvp or Arena its awesome.
Also, Seals of the Pure > Divinity. Its needed to get lower tier talents because its better then toughness. Speaks for itself that your build is very defensive. In 2s the lack of the insane damage warriors etc. can pull off is our weak point, our survivability is awesome already. And besides: Toughness aint gonna save you and has a very small and very situational use, those points are better spend elsewhere.
I am running with this:
http://www.wowhead.com/talent#sZGrMsRzdRMucbG:z0sdzVmcz

I took a point in Hallowed Grounds in order to advance to lower tier talents and I found myself dropping it against a pillar/pile of crates when people are running around pillars all the time.

Also notice the glyphchanges. I replaced HotR by Crusader Strike. The only situation where you should be using HotR over CS is when you want to pressure some guys with a healer healing them if you have chances of getting him OOM. I dont even got it on my actionbar (with engineeringstuff my actionbar is pretty stuffed). And besides, crits are nice. Its all about burst for us anyway. Also removed the cleansglyph and some other manathing. I found myself rarely short of mana, if it does happen in rediculously long matches its when putting Concecration HoW etc down. If you have Improved Judgement you shouldnt run OOM. Focused Shield speaks for itself and more range on HoJ is king against runners/ranged and it turns HoJ into a ranged interrupt which is nice even when we get Rebuke (because Rebuke requires meleerange).

Think that sums it up mostly, just ask when I've forgot to explain something.

Got the 1550 achievement yesterday, not too shabby concidering Im running with a restodurid with 1600ish resilience :) Win/loss-ratio is pretty impressive, had win-streaks of 6. Just messed up with some guys without gear/communication/skill at the start of the season (tried to help some RL friends on their weekly conquestpoints... Not gonna happen at high rating when they suck).
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Re: Prot PVP @ 85

Postby Central » Sun Jan 30, 2011 9:56 am

http://taugrim.com/

He is pretty much the authority on Prot PVP. Has gotten nearly 2200 this season running with an enh shaman. Which is a pretty off the wall comp. He has a full guide including all the numbers, caps, and everything you need for prot pvp.
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Re: Prot PVP @ 85

Postby Sleetza » Mon Jan 31, 2011 9:14 am

Not sure what you mean by "off the wall" (no native English speaker here) but its a good comp. Insane utility, some cc, purges, pushbacks, totems, buffs etc.

I gotta say I dont agree with everything Taugrim says, altho its a nice read and good to get started.
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Re: Prot PVP @ 85

Postby Central » Mon Jan 31, 2011 11:46 am

Off the wall being not normal, or unstandard. Prot/Enh is far from a common comp.

What exactly do you not agree with? I'd love to see other people who pvp as prot's opinions on things.
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Re: Prot PVP @ 85

Postby Sleetza » Mon Jan 31, 2011 1:27 pm

Crap, I was already afraid you would ask that question so I would have to read it all again ^^

Taugrim says glyph of WoG (increases WoG healing by 10%) is mandatory, but it should be noted that this depends on your setup. I am running with a healer (which isnt ideal) so I got 3 damage boosting glyphs.

Seal of Light IS usefull for a short duration to get your mana back when you canceled Divine Plea for a WoG (/cancelaura) if you are playing against a composition who cant make you block so you dont get your mana back from that and you are using your heals/AoE. Besides that its a very usefull seal in PvE, I use it most of the time when chainpulling heroics. (Taugrim says its just crap to use EVER (PvE and PvP), I find it has situational benefits over SoT in PvE and PvP).

Seal of Judgement has some uses (ghostwolf, travelform).

As far as his spec goes: Divine Guardian is kinda lame in 2s, but I can see him takeing it since his shaman has no shieldwall-like abilities. It acts like a Divine Protecion for his ally. Hallowed Grounds is lame too anyway. For the rest it looks the same.

Furthermore I dont agree that yellow sockets are best used to put resilience in it. 20 res and 20 something else to get a socketbonus okay, but I would prefer a critgem over a resilience gem anyway. I am at 3387 resilience and I found myself in need of crit more often then in need of resilience.

About his part on trinkets: The "use" trinket is so much more valuable because thats where prot paladins shine in PvP. Its on 2 minute cooldown and can be paired with wings. Taking the "chance on hit" trinket is a big mistake if you ask me unless you are a Human and dont need an Insignia of the Alliance/Horde.

On the metagem: Requirements of Chaotic will be fixed to 2 blues minimum soon.

Some of the macro's are unneeded, but it depends on your UI if they are usefull or not. To me most aren't.
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Re: Prot PVP @ 85

Postby Kelaan » Mon Jan 31, 2011 5:19 pm

Thank you for the link to Taugrim's blog. That was awesome and concise. I may have to spec specifically for PvP, now... I hope I can live without Ret spec. We'll see.

My question is about gear. Right now I am mostly in crafted gear, with two honor pieces (hands,cloak?) and the conquest point shoulders. I don't PvP often, so I don't have a massive honor point income right now -- mainly because I get on and raid or do dungeons instead of PvP, most nights. Should I fill out the Set Pieces first, regardless of blue/purple-ness, or should I spend my Conquest points on set pieces and Honor points on non-set pieces? I'm leaning towards the former, since it gets me the 4-piece bonus sooner, but it makes me cry a little to think that I'll be replacing the blue set pieces with purples eventually.

Also, right now I'm sticking with my Lava Spine + Elementium Earthguard, despite there being PvP ones I could buy, since they're basically clones of the PvP ones, aside from resilience itemization. I think that's a solid plan, since the weapon DPS and max damage are the same on the pvp weapons.

I wonder if I can get my partner to pvp on his DK instead of his hunter. ;) Probably not, which makes some of the reverse kiting that Taugrim talks about more challenging.

edit: on the matter of honor farming ... what's a good way to do that? I tried running random BGs, but the extra honor doesn't matter if our team doesn't win. =/ Are any of the maps well suited towards alliance, or to my role as a paladin? (CTF maps seemed to work wellsome of the time, but other times it's just an exercise in Who has A Healer. :( )
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Re: Prot PVP @ 85

Postby taugrim » Mon Jan 31, 2011 7:31 pm

Central wrote:http://taugrim.com/

He is pretty much the authority on Prot PVP. Has gotten nearly 2200 this season running with an enh shaman.


We're around 2040 atm in 2v2, and I don't expect we'll get to 2200 due to the high number of Mage/xxx or DK/xxx comps.

Mages are nuts in PVP now, they have high DPS, high survivability, and high CC. Mage really feels like two classes worth of special abilities LOL. We run into Mage comps back-to-back-to-back in 2v2 and if the Mage is competent and decently geared they should beat us. It makes scaling the ladder difficult.

We just started 3v3 this week and broke 2k in 61 games. We haven't hit our ceiling yet :)

Sleetza wrote:Taugrim says glyph of WoG (increases WoG healing by 10%) is mandatory, but it should be noted that this depends on your setup. I am running with a healer (which isnt ideal) so I got 3 damage boosting glyphs.


Are you talking 2v2 only? I end up offhealing a ton in both 2v2 and 3v3.

Sleetza wrote:Seal of Light IS usefull for a short duration to get your mana back when you canceled Divine Plea for a WoG (/cancelaura) if you are playing against a composition who cant make you block so you dont get your mana back from that and you are using your heals/AoE


You can switch to SoI to get mana back faster, although I tend to use my cooldowns in PVP on abilities instead of Seal rotating.

In 4.0.6 with the buffs to SoT, SoT will be even better.

Sleetza wrote:Besides that its a very usefull seal in PvE, I use it most of the time when chainpulling heroics. (Taugrim says its just crap to use EVER (PvE and PvP), I find it has situational benefits over SoT in PvE and PvP).


FYI.

You want the Expertise bonus from glyphed SoT, because you don't want a boss/mob to parry because it will get an immediate attack back on you. I'm not alone on this one, most PVE raid tanks are running glyphed SoT for boss and trash pulls:
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/1020823291

The heal from SoI is quite small, only procs from some of our attacks (auto-attacks), and isn't a guaranteed proc. In PVE mana management with Judgement isn't an issue and you won't be spam casting FoL except situationally.

Sleetza wrote:Seal of Judgement has some uses (ghostwolf, travelform).


Absolutely.

Sleetza wrote:As far as his spec goes: Divine Guardian is kinda lame in 2s, but I can see him takeing it since his shaman has no shieldwall-like abilities. It acts like a Divine Protecion for his ally. Hallowed Grounds is lame too anyway. For the rest it looks the same.


I tried 1/2 Reckoning and 0/1 DG, and I was really disappointed with the meager DPS increase from Reckoning. It's too bad it doesn't proc off our attacks like it did in 3.x.

Sleetza wrote:Furthermore I dont agree that yellow sockets are best used to put resilience in it. 20 res and 20 something else to get a socketbonus okay, but I would prefer a critgem over a resilience gem anyway. I am at 3387 resilience and I found myself in need of crit more often then in need of resilience.


I run with: Str, Str/Crit, and Str/Hit gems. No Resil - what I have from gear and socket bonuses is sufficient.

Sleetza wrote:About his part on trinkets: The "use" trinket is so much more valuable because thats where prot paladins shine in PvP. Its on 2 minute cooldown and can be paired with wings. Taking the "chance on hit" trinket is a big mistake if you ask me unless you are a Human and dont need an Insignia of the Alliance/Horde.


You can't use Wings in a lot of Arena at least due to the number of Mage comps. I have both trinkets and I prefer Insignia over Badge for Prot. For other specs, I'd prefer Badge (e.g. like my partner the Enh Shaman).

Sleetza wrote:Some of the macro's are unneeded, but it depends on your UI if they are usefull or not. To me most aren't.


Macros/keybinds are highly user-preference dependent. I have found a setup that allows fluid movement in most situations while allowing me to use skills on-the-move.

Let me know what other thoughts you have around Prot PVP. Always interested to hear people's perspective.

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Re: Prot PVP @ 85

Postby Kelaan » Wed Feb 02, 2011 10:25 am

taugrim wrote:You want the Expertise bonus from glyphed SoT, because you don't want a boss/mob to parry because it will get an immediate attack back on you.

The heal from SoI is quite small, only procs from some of our attacks (auto-attacks), and isn't a guaranteed proc. In PVE mana management with Judgement isn't an issue and you won't be spam casting FoL except situationally.


This is offtopic for the PvP discussion, but ... We have not confirmed that any bosses actually get hasted attacks when they parry: http://maintankadin.failsafedesign.com/forum/index.php?f=6&t=27934&rb_v=viewtopic If they don't actually get hasted attacks from parries, Expertise is purely a threat stat. Also, SoI may be low amounts of healing, but did 15% of my healing taken on the last Omitron fight, more than any other heal (by any healer) other than Word of Glory and my holy paladin's Divine Light. Last week, it healed as much as earth shield and more than Rejuv. It's powerful in PvE.


I run with: Str, Str/Crit, and Str/Hit gems. No Resil - what I have from gear and socket bonuses is sufficient.

I'm inclined to think the same; a gear upgrade from crafted -> honor, or honor->conquest, is more resilience than a gem, and people tend to focus my partner before me anyways, which means that my meager damage contribution is something I think I want to maximize.

Thanks a ton for your guide. I have it pinned in my browser at home and at work. (: Do you have any tactical suggestions for Prot/Hunter? We can't reverse kite or pillar-hump the way you and your shaman do, and I realize that the synergy isn't that good.
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Re: Prot PVP @ 85

Postby yappo » Thu Feb 03, 2011 5:24 pm

Been fiddling around with PvP the last weeks.

Comparatively standard 0/31/10 (ie my "thou shalt not kill me" -spec) and stacking resilience like there's no tomorrow (around 3.5k resil now). Hit and exp to cap.

Results:

It's absolutely fantastic in battlegrounds. Hit the center of crap, target a pet (yes, pet, not player) and start spamming HoTR for absurd AoE damage. Healers hate evenly spread damage all over the place. If you manage to make the opponents angry enough at you they'll actually follow you into a corner. I never imagined it was possible to tank players. This works surprisingly well in TB as well (even though you tend to get overwhelmed faster there when people decide to get rid of you).

It works so-so in arena (2v2 only, haven't triend anything else). So, I've only done the games needed to cap CP those last weeks, but it's rather clear that casters eat me and my PvE-geared surv-hunter for breakfast. Melee (unless said hunter is killed) do little to no damage at all. However, do NOT, repeat NOT, face off against another prot pally. After some 40 minutes the match ends automatically with neither team getting anything. Around 50% win, but I guess we're meeting equally crappy teams as ourselves.
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Re: Prot PVP @ 85

Postby Vort » Thu Feb 03, 2011 6:06 pm

That reminds me. I need points this week!

Now where did I put that MT of ours?
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Re: Prot PVP @ 85

Postby Kelaan » Fri Feb 04, 2011 2:25 pm

yappo wrote:do NOT, repeat NOT, face off against another prot pally. After some 40 minutes the match ends automatically...


I've had good track record vs other paladins. I think I used SoI for healing, and hammered him repeatedly; good AS proc luck helped too. I probably had more resilience than he did, which meant that he was taking more damage than I was, but I also used all of my damage reduction cooldowns.

So basically luck and a poorly geared opponent. ;)
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Re: Prot PVP @ 85

Postby yappo » Sat Feb 05, 2011 4:40 am

Kelaan wrote:
yappo wrote:do NOT, repeat NOT, face off against another prot pally. After some 40 minutes the match ends automatically...


I've had good track record vs other paladins. I think I used SoI for healing, and hammered him repeatedly; good AS proc luck helped too. I probably had more resilience than he did, which meant that he was taking more damage than I was, but I also used all of my damage reduction cooldowns.

So basically luck and a poorly geared opponent. ;)


I'm afraid I was the 'poorly' geared pally in that match. Poor meaning well over 3200 resilience. We just couldn't get the other anywhere close to actual killing range.
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Re: Prot PVP @ 85

Postby Kelaan » Tue Feb 08, 2011 12:49 pm

taugrim wrote:Mages are nuts in PVP now... if the Mage is competent and decently geared they should beat us.

Last night I was trying to get my 3's healer some extra matches, so I went into 2v2 with Prot+restodruid. One match was versus Mage/Disc. My partner died extremely fast, as she has nearly no resilience, but I proceeded to stay alive for something near another five minutes - had I been able to keep the healer in combat, I would have been able to prevent them drinking.

How well would Prot/Holy work (both paladins)? Holy seems to have some decent burst, when healing isn't critical, and our druid was thinking that swapping to paladin might make our 3s (Prot/hunter/[druid|paladin]) easier. She's starting at zero resilience for each of them, so it might be moot for a while, but I'm curious what you think.
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Re: Prot PVP @ 85

Postby Sleetza » Tue Feb 08, 2011 2:50 pm

taugrim wrote:
Sleetza wrote:Taugrim says glyph of WoG (increases WoG healing by 10%) is mandatory, but it should be noted that this depends on your setup. I am running with a healer (which isnt ideal) so I got 3 damage boosting glyphs.


Are you talking 2v2 only? I end up offhealing a ton in both 2v2 and 3v3.


Yes I talked mainly about 2v2 because thats where most of my experience comes from. I do end up offhealing sometimes, altho I run with a restodruid. The times I could have used that little extra burst from a damage-glyph occur much more often then situations where that 10% WoG-healing would have saved my healer. And apart from that, if its needed we made a mistake to get him in that position most likely (LoS, positioning, unstealthing).

taugrim wrote:
Sleetza wrote:Seal of Light IS usefull for a short duration to get your mana back when you canceled Divine Plea for a WoG (/cancelaura) if you are playing against a composition who cant make you block so you dont get your mana back from that and you are using your heals/AoE


You can switch to SoI to get mana back faster, although I tend to use my cooldowns in PVP on abilities instead of Seal rotating.

In 4.0.6 with the buffs to SoT, SoT will be even better.


Are you referring to global cooldowns? I am not sure what you are referring to here. I sometimes swap seals when I am chasing somebody, to me its not worth the global cooldown either. For damage SoT is obviously king of the hill but there are times where other seals have their uses.

taugrim wrote:
Sleetza wrote:Besides that its a very usefull seal in PvE, I use it most of the time when chainpulling heroics. (Taugrim says its just crap to use EVER (PvE and PvP), I find it has situational benefits over SoT in PvE and PvP).


FYI.

You want the Expertise bonus from glyphed SoT, because you don't want a boss/mob to parry because it will get an immediate attack back on you. I'm not alone on this one, most PVE raid tanks are running glyphed SoT for boss and trash pulls:
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/1020823291

The heal from SoI is quite small, only procs from some of our attacks (auto-attacks), and isn't a guaranteed proc. In PVE mana management with Judgement isn't an issue and you won't be spam casting FoL except situationally.


Mobs parrying isnt an issue as long as long as you dont bring either undergeared or underskilled players. And if you bring those you shouldn't chainpull heroics. When chainpulling I dont prioritize Judgement. And if I use divine plea at the start for the holy power and thus is on cooldown when I could use it for manaregen I sometimes endup going OOM when solotanking heroic bosses. Especially slow attacking ones. Bottomline: I use SoL mostly for manareturns if I endup going OOM somehow or when shit hits the fan (soloing Altairus on heroic mode comes to mind lol).

taugrim wrote:
Sleetza wrote:As far as his spec goes: Divine Guardian is kinda lame in 2s, but I can see him takeing it since his shaman has no shieldwall-like abilities. It acts like a Divine Protecion for his ally. Hallowed Grounds is lame too anyway. For the rest it looks the same.


I tried 1/2 Reckoning and 0/1 DG, and I was really disappointed with the meager DPS increase from Reckoning. It's too bad it doesn't proc off our attacks like it did in 3.x.


The Divine Protection for our allies is probably more usefull then the small dpsboost is. Altho I tend to go with reckoning for the same reason I dont use glyph of WoG. Not 100% convinced for either talent tho, especially in 2v2. In 3v3 its already like two Divine Protections and in 5v5 its like 4.

taugrim wrote:
Sleetza wrote:Furthermore I dont agree that yellow sockets are best used to put resilience in it. 20 res and 20 something else to get a socketbonus okay, but I would prefer a critgem over a resilience gem anyway. I am at 3387 resilience and I found myself in need of crit more often then in need of resilience.


I run with: Str, Str/Crit, and Str/Hit gems. No Resil - what I have from gear and socket bonuses is sufficient.


I was referring to the part in your prot pally pvp guide where you recommend 40 res gems too. I could see the use for it when you are still gearing up and dont have all pvpgear yet but str/crit or str/hit is the way to go.

taugrim wrote:
Sleetza wrote:About his part on trinkets: The "use" trinket is so much more valuable because thats where prot paladins shine in PvP. Its on 2 minute cooldown and can be paired with wings. Taking the "chance on hit" trinket is a big mistake if you ask me unless you are a Human and dont need an Insignia of the Alliance/Horde.


You can't use Wings in a lot of Arena at least due to the number of Mage comps. I have both trinkets and I prefer Insignia over Badge for Prot. For other specs, I'd prefer Badge (e.g. like my partner the Enh Shaman).


Tbh I never had my Wings gotten spellstolen yet. But you are probably less in need of more damage because you are running with a dps-shammie. I am running with a healer so the burstdamage is all we got since our damage is lower then warrior's for example. Most of our 2v2 matches are won by bursting down people while the restodruid/HoJ keeps the other guy CC'ed while I pop my cooldowns on my target. And even thats RNG, no crits no kills mostly.

taugrim wrote:Let me know what other thoughts you have around Prot PVP. Always interested to hear people's perspective.

- Tau


:) I really find it awesome you take time to talk with the community and not just stand there on your soapbox shouting down whats best. Together we'll improve. /highfive

Kelaan wrote:
How well would Prot/Holy work (both paladins)? Holy seems to have some decent burst, when healing isn't critical, and our druid was thinking that swapping to paladin might make our 3s (Prot/hunter/[druid|paladin]) easier. She's starting at zero resilience for each of them, so it might be moot for a while, but I'm curious what you think.


Running with a holy paladin could be viable I think but it wouldn't be my choice. Its basically the same as resto/prot as I am playing currently but restodruids have good CC-abilities holy/prot paladins lack. Exorsismspam is nice tho, but thats the same as wrathspam I believe. It might get interesting when Rebuke gets baseline, two paladins could pretty much spelllock a healer/caster till death.
Sleetza
 
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