Prot Warriors

Ret, Holy, PVP, etc

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Re: Prot Warriors

Postby Kelaan » Wed Mar 16, 2011 2:24 pm

I only mentioned it because it's roughly the difference between having the tank be able to interrupt his raid-wide damage+knockback (Shadow burst?), and having to have a DPS player on the boss full-time to babysit interrupts. (For those that don't have an ele shaman, etc.) In 25-man, that's not so bad, but in 10-man it means having only 4 DPS on the kill target instead of 5. (It's also not as bad when you can have one tank on the boss the whole time.)
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Re: Prot Warriors

Postby fafhrd » Wed Mar 16, 2011 3:16 pm

thatguy wrote:
bldavis wrote:
Mmo-Champ wrote: Warrior (Forums / Cataclysm Talent Calculator / Skills/Talents)
Colossus Smash now ignores 50% of a hostile player's armor (PvP), but continues to ignore 100% of a non-player character's armor (PvE).

now lets see if this makes it live


It's this kind of stuff that drives me bat shit crazy. After all of the "balancing" that they've tried to do, they finally realize that "Gee, maybe we could just flip this switch to differentiate between PvP and PvE". Why they can't do more of this just baffles me.


ESPECIALLY when they've said time and time again that they think having abilities behave differently between PvP and PvE is "too complicated for new players to have to pick up". They've previously rubberstamped it for CC by saying CC durations are covered by a single broad rule instead of per ability differences, but now they go ahead and do it for a DPS ability.

All that ranting being said, I'm glad they did it, since trying to balance warrior PvE sustained DPS against warrior PvP burst dps without something like this was just getting annoying. Hopefully they still go ahead with some of the other changes like increased white damage though, since otherwise we're stuck not really giving a damn about stats that only help white dps (hit past yellow cap, haste).
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Re: Prot Warriors

Postby Hokahey » Thu Mar 17, 2011 12:36 am

bldavis wrote:
Kelaan wrote:How would you have handled interrupts SOLO while tanking Halfus? I'm curious what the rotation is, especially given that you might be tank swapping.

I think it's also possible that they didn't want you to have an interupt more than every 10 seconds.

dang
you found the flaw in my logic

i dont know any of the raid fights cept the BH boss....if you call that a raid


Shield Bash and Pummel would be the only Warrior interrupts effective against Halfus, to my knowledge. Concussion Blow, Shockwave, Charge, and Intercept are stuns, so unless I'm off my mark, they do nothing to stop Halfus from casting, although they work great on caster trash.

There's also Spell Reflect, but it does nothing against AoE spells, and only certain single target spells from bosses can be reflected.

So, no, a Warrior is not an all-in-one interrupt machine on Halfus.

Frankly, the effect of losing Shield Bash will be minimal for PvE, in my opinion.

On the note of Halfus, last time I was in there with my guild, my Feral Druid friend said he had no problem using Bash to interrupt every single Shadow Nova by himself after the first, so I believe the cooldown is up to 10 seconds now, though I could be mistaken.
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Re: Prot Warriors

Postby bldavis » Thu Mar 17, 2011 2:18 am

skull bash has a 10 sec cd, idr what bash's is
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Re: Prot Warriors

Postby Hokahey » Thu Mar 17, 2011 4:31 am

bldavis wrote:skull bash has a 10 sec cd, idr what bash's is


Yes, thank you. Please excuse my typo.
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Re: Prot Warriors

Postby Flex » Thu Mar 17, 2011 11:53 am

bldavis wrote:
Flex wrote:
bldavis wrote:another case of pvp fucking up our pve


Or a PvE request, 10 second cooldown interrupt like every other tanking class, being filled in the most logical way.

if this is the case, then i want to kick the ass of who ever asked for it, we have 3 cooldowns we can use for interupts, why the hell would you ask for one to be taken away?

that is what i love about being a warrior, if i cant put my foot down or bash my shield in your face to get you to stfu, ill just throw my weapon at you.

im sure it is just more homogenization between the tanking classes but i think its screwed up

/rant


Silence and Stuns aren't Interrupts. Nothing is being taken away since Pummel and Shield Bash shared a cooldown anyway. To normalize the cooldowns in tanking classes they removed Shield Bash and allowed Pummel in any stance. PvE prot warriors are more or less buffed except in fringe trash positioning cases and PvP prot warriors were nerfed due to the Gag Order change.
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Re: Prot Warriors

Postby semp » Tue Mar 22, 2011 8:01 am

I have been really enjoying my prot warrior. I started leveling him in WotLK and from level 15-42 completely through instances. Now in Cata I started leveling him again through instances only and up to level 54. Only a few more levels for BC dungeons! The ability to change anytime is awesome. What I do miss is being able to chain cleave =/. Rend spreading to secondary targets with TC is great to.

As far as how I handle AOE, I charge -> rend -> TC to start the fight. Then keep cleave on CD and revenge whenever its up. This is like AOE god mode at least at these levels. I use glyph of cleave and revenge for more AOE.

On a side note, druid healers seem to be much weaker than paladins and priests at this level range (50s). Maybe I just have had all noob druids.
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Re: Prot Warriors

Postby thatguy » Tue Mar 22, 2011 8:30 am

I've been tootling around in random bgs on my prot warrior and I've been loving it. I will surely miss Shield Bash if that change goes through. I giggle when a healer started casting a heal and I could lock them out for a couple of seconds. It's not as if there are a crap ton of prot warriors anyways and on top of that we aren't incredibly Arena viable so I'm left scratching my head as to why they're doing it.

The best I can do is defend a node until backup arrives, annoy the bejeesus out of casters/hunters/healers, and be a meat bag with some stuns. Flag running is better served by paladins and blood dks as well. I still like the mobility of the warrior but Shield Bash was a niche that prot warriors had.

Don't even get me started on the Shield Reflect thing either. Frost mages most likely whined loud enough that they couldn't kill every class without thinking. Big whoop, I reflect your 8k ice lance but I close in on you and then get nova'ed/Cone of Cold/Frozen/Frost Barrier and then blink away. I can only trinket once/Berserker rage once every 2 minutes.

All the while your stupid frost bolts are slowing me. Maybe I'm doing it completely wrong but frost mages frustrate me to no end. I'd rather fight two holy pallies than a single frost mage. I might never win against holy pallies but at least I can get into melee range and try to do something without being perma-kited.

If anyone has tips on how to deal with these wretches, please let me know.
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Re: Prot Warriors

Postby Dane » Tue Mar 22, 2011 8:57 am

Here's a Cat raiding-level prot warrior question, or series, rather...

1) Hit cap...more important than it is for us? Should warrior tanks be reforging for hit?
2) Kind of a catch-all...as the "other" shield tank, is their gearing fairly similar to ours? My co-tank is 5 or so ilevels ahead of me...but healers say I'm easier to keep up. I checked our respective armories, and while he's sitting at about 160k unbuffed to my either 147 or 143...(sorry, stam isn't my gearing priority, so I know I'm lose to the 150k I want, but not QUITE there...I also don't know my exact number. I have enough to survive...I know that much.) but I've got about 7% more block than him. Dodge and parry are the same until you get to the hundreths column...
3) Threat...does he really need a shield spike...or would a defensive enchant serve him better?

I have a feeling I should have a talk with him, but I'd like to be sure I'm not making a fool of myself first. He's rocking dual-stam trinkets...which I told him was silliness at our gear/content level, but then I realized...maybe it isn't for a warrior, maybe it is.

Any insight is appreciated.
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Re: Prot Warriors

Postby fuzzygeek » Tue Mar 22, 2011 9:14 am

I would argue your warrior friend is doing it wrong. Mastery is amazing for both shield tanks; I follow the same gear guidelines with my warrior as with my paladin.

1. No, no.
2. Yes.
3. No, yes.
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Re: Prot Warriors

Postby Kelaan » Tue Mar 22, 2011 10:03 am

Block % and critical block both scale with their mastery, right? So that means that he's missing out on a bunch if he's not doing that. I'd wager that double-stam trinkets are bag-o-meat-useless compared to mitigation ones, in most situations, (with the perpetual caveat, "unless you're doing hard modes I guess"). :)
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Re: Prot Warriors

Postby Dane » Tue Mar 22, 2011 10:40 am

Thanks for the help...I'm going to have to have a talk with my co-tank. He's a bit of a handful, because he "played professionally during part of Wrath" and they "one-shotted Yogg the first time they saw him," but I've also heard from the healers and dps that he's been merely 'ok' in heroics.

I guess I already knew this was coming, due to his insistence that he's chasing the trinkets from Magmaw AND Val/There...even though I'd had the "two stam trinkets bad atm" talk...
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Re: Prot Warriors

Postby Kelaan » Tue Mar 22, 2011 10:55 am

Make sure you can back it up with numbers. :)
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Re: Prot Warriors

Postby Dane » Tue Mar 22, 2011 11:48 am

Kelaan wrote:Make sure you can back it up with numbers. :)


Well...here's what I've got so far. Don't know if this is what you mean.

Him:

Health: 160,753
Dodge: 11.85%
Parry: 12.37%
Block: 43.98%

Me:

Health: Still not sure...we'll go with the lower number 143k and change
Dodge: 11.78%
Parry: 12.97%
Block: 51.50%

Looks pretty cut and dried to me. We're fairly similarly geared, levelwise...he's a little up on me.

RL has also been putting me in the main spots, but I've asked him to make sure things are fair...I may make sure roles ar switched tonight so we can do a parse by parse comparison on damage taken.
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Re: Prot Warriors

Postby bldavis » Tue Mar 22, 2011 12:18 pm

the main difference between the shield tank classes is block

pallies will block more often and for a set amount
warriors will block less but have a chance to block more damage

as far as gearing i am using a mostly pally thinking (mastery>stam stacking) and havent had a problem
ive even had some healers tell me im easier to keep up then some pallies
(prob just noob pallies)

asfar as teh shield spike.....if anything a pally would get more use due to blocking more
shield spike doesnt boost shield slam

however if you are specced into Heavy Repercussions keeping shield block up will

my pulls go shout, shield block, heroic throw, charge, shield slam ......into my priority list
ss>revenge>rend>devestate
keeping TC, and demo shout up
(if specced into Blood and Thunder, you can keep rend up by hitting TC)
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Brekkie:Tanks are like shitty DPS. And healers are like REALLY distracted DPS
Amirya:Why yes, your penis is longer than his because you hit 30k dps in the first 10 seconds. But guess what? That raid boss has a dick bigger than your ego.
Flex:I don't make mistakes. I execute carefully planned strategic group wipes.
Levie:(in /g) It's weird, I have a collar and I dont know where I got it from, Worgen are kinky!
Levie:Drunk Lev goes and does what he pleases just to annoy sober Lev.
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