Prot Warriors

Ret, Holy, PVP, etc

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Re: Prot Warriors

Postby Brute » Tue Mar 15, 2011 6:49 am

Anyone else hear the rumor that Shield Bash is going away? what gives?! Are they making Pummel usable in any stance?
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Re: Prot Warriors

Postby Kelaan » Tue Mar 15, 2011 8:29 am

yes:

Heroic Throw is now available from trainers at level 20.
Pummel is now usable in all stances.
Shield Bash has been removed from the game.

Spell Reflection cooldown has been increased to 25 seconds, up from 10.

from http://www.mmo-champion.com/content/2193-Patch-4.1-Notes-February-28-Update
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Re: Prot Warriors

Postby fuzzygeek » Tue Mar 15, 2011 8:29 am

Yes; I blame PvP, Yes.
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Re: Prot Warriors

Postby bldavis » Tue Mar 15, 2011 9:36 am

another case of pvp fucking up our pve
i honestly think they should just leave it, i mean ffs if you want to protpvp then you should get the perk of an extra silence

this game wasnt meant to be balanced around pvp.....
more and more im moving closer to the dual tooltips camps
make abilities do one thing in pve and one in pvp

that is one thing i do like about rift, all thier resil/pvp crap is in a separate tree so to be great at pvp you have to spec into it
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Brekkie:Tanks are like shitty DPS. And healers are like REALLY distracted DPS
Amirya:Why yes, your penis is longer than his because you hit 30k dps in the first 10 seconds. But guess what? That raid boss has a dick bigger than your ego.
Flex:I don't make mistakes. I execute carefully planned strategic group wipes.
Levie:(in /g) It's weird, I have a collar and I dont know where I got it from, Worgen are kinky!
Levie:Drunk Lev goes and does what he pleases just to annoy sober Lev.
Sagara:You see, you need to *spread* the bun before you insert the hot dog.
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Re: Prot Warriors

Postby tbolt » Tue Mar 15, 2011 10:57 am

The shield bash change definitely sucks but while we lose the silence at least we gain a faster interrupt. I think I'm more pissed about spell reflect going on such a long cool down relative to before. It was a great tool for packs with lots of casters, free rage + threat at range without having to move.
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Re: Prot Warriors

Postby Shoju » Tue Mar 15, 2011 11:29 am

My goblin alt is now 70, and really really really beginning to hate DPS in PUGS. I mean... Is it SO FREAKING HARD to wait until you hear/see Thundclap before you start unloading on everything? 2 Globals is all I ask. 2 freaking globals.

I have tried marking, but well.... That doesn't seem to matter. I have tried letting people die, that doesn't matter because healing is faceroll. I have tried griping at people, that doesn't seem to matter. The pulls in UK right before first boss, and at the top of each set of steps truly make me miss having Avenger's Shield. As it is, I'm rocketing one, Taunting one, and Charging another, and people still find ways to run the mobs all over the place.

Stupid Effing DPS making my job harder.
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Re: Prot Warriors

Postby bldavis » Tue Mar 15, 2011 12:07 pm

the good thing is that at that level the dps can tank for a bit on thier own

it will get a little better once you get Heroic Throw at 78
but yes, i miss AS pulling too
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Brekkie:Tanks are like shitty DPS. And healers are like REALLY distracted DPS
Amirya:Why yes, your penis is longer than his because you hit 30k dps in the first 10 seconds. But guess what? That raid boss has a dick bigger than your ego.
Flex:I don't make mistakes. I execute carefully planned strategic group wipes.
Levie:(in /g) It's weird, I have a collar and I dont know where I got it from, Worgen are kinky!
Levie:Drunk Lev goes and does what he pleases just to annoy sober Lev.
Sagara:You see, you need to *spread* the bun before you insert the hot dog.
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Re: Prot Warriors

Postby Kelaan » Tue Mar 15, 2011 12:12 pm

At least the healers aren't in terrible danger, and DPS that choose to die pyrrhically are free to do so IMO. :) Here's hoping it gets better. Once I level my warrior more, I'll share your concerns, I bet. (Once I L2Prot, that is to say.)

Also, boo on forum-preview eating my post. :(

Shield Bash removal is PvE screwing up PvP, not the other way around. I like it - ONE interrupt to use (and balance around), no matter the spec or stance.
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Re: Prot Warriors

Postby Shyrtandros » Tue Mar 15, 2011 12:17 pm

After leveling my goblin warrior from 1 to 85 in about 2-3 weeks of casual leveling I am convinced anyone who is leveling a warrior at this time is HORRIBLY wrong if they are not Prot. Insta-Q's for dungeons, more dps than almost anyone until around the 70's. The ability to easily AoE pull & kill quest mobs..
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Re: Prot Warriors

Postby fafhrd » Tue Mar 15, 2011 2:53 pm

KysenMurrin wrote:Yeah, but before 4.0 a Prot Warrior could use Charge from level 20 with a macro and Stance Mastery. It was hard to adjust back on my lowbie Warrior when I realised I couldn't Charge any more because they moved Stance Mastery to level 58.


Yeah the changes to when you learn things were really jarring if were mid levelling. I actually had a level 20ish mage that I hadn't played in around 5 years, but I decided to pick her up again in Cata. Something like 70% of the abilities she was used to having as a level 22 frost mage were either gone, or bumped up to level 40 or level 50 abilities. Even seemingly basic things like conjure water and mana shield became really high level abilities, and because of the new not-getting-a-talent-point every level, even talented abilities in your primary tree are a lot farther than they look. It really seems that for some classes at least they want you to have almost no decisions to make for the vanilla levels.

She's 64 now though, so is no longer feeling lobotomized, but now she's back to no decisions because everything dies in 2 arcane blasts - sometime she goes frost to deal with groups or just to make things more interactive, but that's slower on the kill quests so I end up switching back.
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Re: Prot Warriors

Postby Flex » Wed Mar 16, 2011 7:51 am

bldavis wrote:another case of pvp fucking up our pve


Or a PvE request, 10 second cooldown interrupt like every other tanking class, being filled in the most logical way.
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Re: Prot Warriors

Postby bldavis » Wed Mar 16, 2011 8:09 am

Flex wrote:
bldavis wrote:another case of pvp fucking up our pve


Or a PvE request, 10 second cooldown interrupt like every other tanking class, being filled in the most logical way.

if this is the case, then i want to kick the ass of who ever asked for it, we have 3 cooldowns we can use for interupts, why the hell would you ask for one to be taken away?

that is what i love about being a warrior, if i cant put my foot down or bash my shield in your face to get you to stfu, ill just throw my weapon at you.

im sure it is just more homogenization between the tanking classes but i think its screwed up

/rant


edit: i know this isnt a prot thing, but its is showing that blizz MIGHT be going more towards seperate pve/pvp abilities

Mmo-Champ wrote: Warrior (Forums / Cataclysm Talent Calculator / Skills/Talents)
Colossus Smash now ignores 50% of a hostile player's armor (PvP), but continues to ignore 100% of a non-player character's armor (PvE).

now lets see if this makes it live
Image

Brekkie:Tanks are like shitty DPS. And healers are like REALLY distracted DPS
Amirya:Why yes, your penis is longer than his because you hit 30k dps in the first 10 seconds. But guess what? That raid boss has a dick bigger than your ego.
Flex:I don't make mistakes. I execute carefully planned strategic group wipes.
Levie:(in /g) It's weird, I have a collar and I dont know where I got it from, Worgen are kinky!
Levie:Drunk Lev goes and does what he pleases just to annoy sober Lev.
Sagara:You see, you need to *spread* the bun before you insert the hot dog.
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Re: Prot Warriors

Postby Kelaan » Wed Mar 16, 2011 11:23 am

bldavis wrote:
Flex wrote:10 second cooldown interrupt like every other tanking class, being filled in the most logical way.

if this is the case, then i want to kick the ass of who ever asked for it, we have 3 cooldowns we can use for interupts, why the hell would you ask for one to be taken away?

How would you have handled interrupts SOLO while tanking Halfus? I'm curious what the rotation is, especially given that you might be tank swapping.

I think it's also possible that they didn't want you to have an interupt more than every 10 seconds.
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Re: Prot Warriors

Postby thatguy » Wed Mar 16, 2011 11:42 am

bldavis wrote:
Mmo-Champ wrote: Warrior (Forums / Cataclysm Talent Calculator / Skills/Talents)
Colossus Smash now ignores 50% of a hostile player's armor (PvP), but continues to ignore 100% of a non-player character's armor (PvE).

now lets see if this makes it live


It's this kind of stuff that drives me bat shit crazy. After all of the "balancing" that they've tried to do, they finally realize that "Gee, maybe we could just flip this switch to differentiate between PvP and PvE". Why they can't do more of this just baffles me.
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Re: Prot Warriors

Postby bldavis » Wed Mar 16, 2011 12:46 pm

Kelaan wrote:
bldavis wrote:
Flex wrote:10 second cooldown interrupt like every other tanking class, being filled in the most logical way.

if this is the case, then i want to kick the ass of who ever asked for it, we have 3 cooldowns we can use for interupts, why the hell would you ask for one to be taken away?

How would you have handled interrupts SOLO while tanking Halfus? I'm curious what the rotation is, especially given that you might be tank swapping.

I think it's also possible that they didn't want you to have an interupt more than every 10 seconds.

dang
you found the flaw in my logic

i dont know any of the raid fights cept the BH boss....if you call that a raid
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Brekkie:Tanks are like shitty DPS. And healers are like REALLY distracted DPS
Amirya:Why yes, your penis is longer than his because you hit 30k dps in the first 10 seconds. But guess what? That raid boss has a dick bigger than your ego.
Flex:I don't make mistakes. I execute carefully planned strategic group wipes.
Levie:(in /g) It's weird, I have a collar and I dont know where I got it from, Worgen are kinky!
Levie:Drunk Lev goes and does what he pleases just to annoy sober Lev.
Sagara:You see, you need to *spread* the bun before you insert the hot dog.
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Re: Prot Warriors

Postby Kelaan » Wed Mar 16, 2011 2:24 pm

I only mentioned it because it's roughly the difference between having the tank be able to interrupt his raid-wide damage+knockback (Shadow burst?), and having to have a DPS player on the boss full-time to babysit interrupts. (For those that don't have an ele shaman, etc.) In 25-man, that's not so bad, but in 10-man it means having only 4 DPS on the kill target instead of 5. (It's also not as bad when you can have one tank on the boss the whole time.)
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Re: Prot Warriors

Postby fafhrd » Wed Mar 16, 2011 3:16 pm

thatguy wrote:
bldavis wrote:
Mmo-Champ wrote: Warrior (Forums / Cataclysm Talent Calculator / Skills/Talents)
Colossus Smash now ignores 50% of a hostile player's armor (PvP), but continues to ignore 100% of a non-player character's armor (PvE).

now lets see if this makes it live


It's this kind of stuff that drives me bat shit crazy. After all of the "balancing" that they've tried to do, they finally realize that "Gee, maybe we could just flip this switch to differentiate between PvP and PvE". Why they can't do more of this just baffles me.


ESPECIALLY when they've said time and time again that they think having abilities behave differently between PvP and PvE is "too complicated for new players to have to pick up". They've previously rubberstamped it for CC by saying CC durations are covered by a single broad rule instead of per ability differences, but now they go ahead and do it for a DPS ability.

All that ranting being said, I'm glad they did it, since trying to balance warrior PvE sustained DPS against warrior PvP burst dps without something like this was just getting annoying. Hopefully they still go ahead with some of the other changes like increased white damage though, since otherwise we're stuck not really giving a damn about stats that only help white dps (hit past yellow cap, haste).
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Re: Prot Warriors

Postby Hokahey » Thu Mar 17, 2011 12:36 am

bldavis wrote:
Kelaan wrote:How would you have handled interrupts SOLO while tanking Halfus? I'm curious what the rotation is, especially given that you might be tank swapping.

I think it's also possible that they didn't want you to have an interupt more than every 10 seconds.

dang
you found the flaw in my logic

i dont know any of the raid fights cept the BH boss....if you call that a raid


Shield Bash and Pummel would be the only Warrior interrupts effective against Halfus, to my knowledge. Concussion Blow, Shockwave, Charge, and Intercept are stuns, so unless I'm off my mark, they do nothing to stop Halfus from casting, although they work great on caster trash.

There's also Spell Reflect, but it does nothing against AoE spells, and only certain single target spells from bosses can be reflected.

So, no, a Warrior is not an all-in-one interrupt machine on Halfus.

Frankly, the effect of losing Shield Bash will be minimal for PvE, in my opinion.

On the note of Halfus, last time I was in there with my guild, my Feral Druid friend said he had no problem using Bash to interrupt every single Shadow Nova by himself after the first, so I believe the cooldown is up to 10 seconds now, though I could be mistaken.
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Re: Prot Warriors

Postby bldavis » Thu Mar 17, 2011 2:18 am

skull bash has a 10 sec cd, idr what bash's is
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Brekkie:Tanks are like shitty DPS. And healers are like REALLY distracted DPS
Amirya:Why yes, your penis is longer than his because you hit 30k dps in the first 10 seconds. But guess what? That raid boss has a dick bigger than your ego.
Flex:I don't make mistakes. I execute carefully planned strategic group wipes.
Levie:(in /g) It's weird, I have a collar and I dont know where I got it from, Worgen are kinky!
Levie:Drunk Lev goes and does what he pleases just to annoy sober Lev.
Sagara:You see, you need to *spread* the bun before you insert the hot dog.
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Re: Prot Warriors

Postby Hokahey » Thu Mar 17, 2011 4:31 am

bldavis wrote:skull bash has a 10 sec cd, idr what bash's is


Yes, thank you. Please excuse my typo.
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Re: Prot Warriors

Postby Flex » Thu Mar 17, 2011 11:53 am

bldavis wrote:
Flex wrote:
bldavis wrote:another case of pvp fucking up our pve


Or a PvE request, 10 second cooldown interrupt like every other tanking class, being filled in the most logical way.

if this is the case, then i want to kick the ass of who ever asked for it, we have 3 cooldowns we can use for interupts, why the hell would you ask for one to be taken away?

that is what i love about being a warrior, if i cant put my foot down or bash my shield in your face to get you to stfu, ill just throw my weapon at you.

im sure it is just more homogenization between the tanking classes but i think its screwed up

/rant


Silence and Stuns aren't Interrupts. Nothing is being taken away since Pummel and Shield Bash shared a cooldown anyway. To normalize the cooldowns in tanking classes they removed Shield Bash and allowed Pummel in any stance. PvE prot warriors are more or less buffed except in fringe trash positioning cases and PvP prot warriors were nerfed due to the Gag Order change.
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Re: Prot Warriors

Postby semp » Tue Mar 22, 2011 8:01 am

I have been really enjoying my prot warrior. I started leveling him in WotLK and from level 15-42 completely through instances. Now in Cata I started leveling him again through instances only and up to level 54. Only a few more levels for BC dungeons! The ability to change anytime is awesome. What I do miss is being able to chain cleave =/. Rend spreading to secondary targets with TC is great to.

As far as how I handle AOE, I charge -> rend -> TC to start the fight. Then keep cleave on CD and revenge whenever its up. This is like AOE god mode at least at these levels. I use glyph of cleave and revenge for more AOE.

On a side note, druid healers seem to be much weaker than paladins and priests at this level range (50s). Maybe I just have had all noob druids.
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Re: Prot Warriors

Postby thatguy » Tue Mar 22, 2011 8:30 am

I've been tootling around in random bgs on my prot warrior and I've been loving it. I will surely miss Shield Bash if that change goes through. I giggle when a healer started casting a heal and I could lock them out for a couple of seconds. It's not as if there are a crap ton of prot warriors anyways and on top of that we aren't incredibly Arena viable so I'm left scratching my head as to why they're doing it.

The best I can do is defend a node until backup arrives, annoy the bejeesus out of casters/hunters/healers, and be a meat bag with some stuns. Flag running is better served by paladins and blood dks as well. I still like the mobility of the warrior but Shield Bash was a niche that prot warriors had.

Don't even get me started on the Shield Reflect thing either. Frost mages most likely whined loud enough that they couldn't kill every class without thinking. Big whoop, I reflect your 8k ice lance but I close in on you and then get nova'ed/Cone of Cold/Frozen/Frost Barrier and then blink away. I can only trinket once/Berserker rage once every 2 minutes.

All the while your stupid frost bolts are slowing me. Maybe I'm doing it completely wrong but frost mages frustrate me to no end. I'd rather fight two holy pallies than a single frost mage. I might never win against holy pallies but at least I can get into melee range and try to do something without being perma-kited.

If anyone has tips on how to deal with these wretches, please let me know.
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Re: Prot Warriors

Postby Dane » Tue Mar 22, 2011 8:57 am

Here's a Cat raiding-level prot warrior question, or series, rather...

1) Hit cap...more important than it is for us? Should warrior tanks be reforging for hit?
2) Kind of a catch-all...as the "other" shield tank, is their gearing fairly similar to ours? My co-tank is 5 or so ilevels ahead of me...but healers say I'm easier to keep up. I checked our respective armories, and while he's sitting at about 160k unbuffed to my either 147 or 143...(sorry, stam isn't my gearing priority, so I know I'm lose to the 150k I want, but not QUITE there...I also don't know my exact number. I have enough to survive...I know that much.) but I've got about 7% more block than him. Dodge and parry are the same until you get to the hundreths column...
3) Threat...does he really need a shield spike...or would a defensive enchant serve him better?

I have a feeling I should have a talk with him, but I'd like to be sure I'm not making a fool of myself first. He's rocking dual-stam trinkets...which I told him was silliness at our gear/content level, but then I realized...maybe it isn't for a warrior, maybe it is.

Any insight is appreciated.
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Re: Prot Warriors

Postby fuzzygeek » Tue Mar 22, 2011 9:14 am

I would argue your warrior friend is doing it wrong. Mastery is amazing for both shield tanks; I follow the same gear guidelines with my warrior as with my paladin.

1. No, no.
2. Yes.
3. No, yes.
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