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Retribution, PvE or PvP

Ret, Holy, PVP, etc

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Retribution, PvE or PvP

Postby Maballsies » Sat Aug 07, 2010 9:34 pm

I am actually MS ret (don't shun me!) so my ignorance of prot is made up for in extensive knowledge of the ret class (which some of you tanks would find valuable, yes? hopefully?)

Pretty much if you have any questions feel free. No question is too newby or too stupid. Some might be too hard though haha. No but really. I'm good.

Just trying to give back for the tank help I've got.
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Re: Retribution, PvE or PvP

Postby ZeroKewl » Sat Aug 07, 2010 9:57 pm

As a new lvl 80 pally I am finding it easier to Q as dps until I get to my defense cap. My question is this

What gear would you buy to get your dps up to par? I am currently doing about 2k in reg ToC, but even less in the few heroics I have been in.

I would love any advice you have. I am ZeroKewl on Hydraxis (cannot link from work).

I think I have the rotation semi down, as I have researched it, and its a work in progress.

edit-Also I read that I should use Blessing of might, but when running with a warrior with their shout, should I consider Kings?
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Re: Retribution, PvE or PvP

Postby Maballsies » Sun Aug 08, 2010 8:37 am

If you are looking for straight emblem gear here would be a quick list:

helm: Liadrin's Helm of Conquest (i232)
neck: Spiked Battleguard Choker (i226)
shoulder: Shoulderplate's of Trembling Rage (i245)
Back: Hammerhead Sharkskin's Cloak (i213)
Chest: Liadrin's Battleplate of Conquest (i232)
Wrist: Wristbands of the Sentinel Huntress (i213)
Hands: Liadrin's Gauntlets of Conquest (i232)
Waist: Belt of the Singing Blade (i226)
Legs: Liadrin's Legplates of Conquest (i232)
Feet: Bladed Steelboots (i213)
Ring(1): Bloodshed Band (i245)
Ring(2): Dexterous Brightstone Ring (i245)
Trinket(1): Mirror of Truth (i200)
Trinket(2): Mark of Supremecy (i245)
Libram: Libram of Discord (i226)

Gear explanation:
Now, that is all gear bought through emblems. It isn't the best (and you probably didn't want a full set) but thats would you should aim for until you are happy with your dps. I bolded the ones to go for first. The reason those are bolded is 1) that is your t9 4pc 2) i245 > i213 3) they will boost your dps the most. If you have the gold to spend I would craft the ulduar blacksmithing belt (Belt of the Titans (i226)) and feet (Battlelord's Plate Boots (i226)). The boots are better than the belt if you can only make one of them. If you have even more money, then get the ToC crafted wrists, Titanium Spikeguards (i245). Generally, if the item has ArP on it, do not bother picking it up unless you just have spare emblems or are still looking for upgrades. ArP is horrible for rets as it only affects ~30% of our damage (white strikes, CS and DS). The secondary stats you want are (in this order):
1)hit rating til 8% (263 rating)
2)crit
3)haste
4)expertise til 26 rating
5)ArP

Most people will put expertise higher up, but since you are just looking to get your dps up for heroics, don't bother capping that. Do the easier thing and just stand behind the target

Also, I saw you had the i245 ret libram. However, if you dps in ret spec you should have Seal of Command, which you should be using in heroics for the AoE, and if you are using that seal your libram will never proc unless you switch seals for a boss encounter.

Mechanics:
You used the word "rotation" which makes me want to make sure you know there is no rotation, but a First Come First Serve (FCFS) clash system. When you have multiple moves up, use them in this order: Judgement > CS > Hammer of Wrath (when sub20%) > DS > Consecration > Exorcism. The only time this isn't the order you should use is when you are going strictly for AoE, and in that case go Judgement > Consecration > DS > Holy Wrath(if they are undead targets) > CS > exorcism.

Your spec is currently the top end raiding spec which is not quite where you are at yet, but it is completely viable. If you want to get something that would give you a little more use in heroics go with http://www.wowhead.com/talent#sV0bZVMZVfbtbIuGdIfsu (7/7/57). That is the spec I had throughout my ToC days. As for glyphs, get Glyph of Consecration for your 3rd major glyph.

Gemming and Enchants:
If you gem your ret set, gem str in everything, unless you get nice gems. If you get nice gems, gem 10str/10crit in yellow sockets with a bonus of 4str or more. Also, gem a nightmare tear in your highest blue socket. For your Meta get the Relentless Earthsiege Diamond (21agi 3%crit dmg).

enchant list:
helm: ebon hold arcanum
shoulders: hodir rep
back: 23haste
chest: 10stats
wrists: 50ap
hands: 44ap
legs: icescale leg armor
feet: icewalker (if you need hit) or 32ap
weapon: berserking

Of course those are the best enchants you can get, and I would imagine you aren't trying to totally pimp out your ret set, so get the same stat, but lower numbers (ie 35ap over 44ap to hands).


If there is anything else you wanted to know or anything that doesn't make sense ask away. This is just what I came up with more or less rambling about ret :P

And to answer your question about warriors, its situational. Ask them which shout they are specced into if they bring it up. If they are using commanding, then use might, if they are specced into battle, then use kings. Most dps war's I queue with use commanding and just ask for kings on them. Might is more or less the same thing as battleshout, so if they are using it then use kings.
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Re: Retribution, PvE or PvP

Postby ZeroKewl » Sun Aug 08, 2010 10:48 pm

What libram do rets use? I have just been running with SoCor since I got it, as prior I only had the lvl 70 47 shield block libram. I knew we gemmed for str, so I figured it outta be ok.

Do you have a list of heroic drops that are good for ret as I plan to use badges to get my prot side up and running first.

As far as enchanting I generally try to max out anything I can do on my side. I do not get to run as much as I would like, so I attempt to eek out every point I can by either raising money to enchant or gem my gear. As soon as I get some decent shoulders I will be popping on the SoH exalted enchant, as I maxed them out before I hit 80...on that note they REALLY made it too easy to lvl them compared to when wotlk first came out.
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Re: Retribution, PvE or PvP

Postby Maballsies » Mon Aug 09, 2010 6:21 am

Maballsies wrote:Libram: Libram of Discord (i226)

Also, I saw you had the i245 ret libram. However, if you dps in ret spec you should have Seal of Command, which you should be using in heroics for the AoE, and if you are using that seal your libram will never proc unless you switch seals for a boss encounter.


And I actually do have a list of drops. I hit 80 back when heroic lockouts mattered and naxx was progression, so I made a list for myself of gear I wanted: http://www.wowhead.com/forums&topic=90474 Of course, some of the stuff has changed (enchants/gems mostly) as ilvl has increased, but if you are looking for straight gear, pick those up.

Hodir had fun dailies, so I actually grinded rep that way and didn't use relics til halfway through revered.

**EDIT**
Forgot to include gear from the new heroics.
ToC (reg)
-> http://www.wowhead.com/item=47232
-> http://www.wowhead.com/item=47176
-> http://www.wowhead.com/item=47197
ToC (H)
-> http://www.wowhead.com/item=47511
-> http://www.wowhead.com/item=47495
-> http://www.wowhead.com/item=47502

I could keep going with FoS, PoS and HoR, but I would just roll on any of the gear that drops to have a non 3kgs ret set to flex when you need to.
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Re: Retribution, PvE or PvP

Postby kennywu » Tue Aug 10, 2010 7:06 am

Libram: Libram of Discord (i226)


I cannot remember exactly what LoD does, but IIRC the ilvl 251pvp libram is better for trash. Also, for Retadins, crit>haste so for your back enchant one would prefer agility over haste.

This is just from an OS Protadin so please correct me if I am wrong.
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Re: Retribution, PvE or PvP

Postby Maballsies » Tue Aug 10, 2010 5:37 pm

Libram of Discord grants 235 extra damage for each Divine Storm hit (4targets would be an increased damage of 940 if you are AoEing 4 or more mobs). The i251 arena libram gives you 172ap for 10sec per crusader strike. The libram also has a 100% proc chance, so with a cooldown of 4sec on CS and being 2nd on your priority, you can pretty much guarantee this to be a static 172ap buff, which will affect your white strikes, CS, DS, judgement and Hammer of wrath (consecrate and exorcisms are spells, however they do dip into your AP a little, but the benefit is minuscule).

Personally I would use the i226 libram considering heroics are now more or less the tank grabbing a lot of mobs and dps AoEing them down. Either way, it is your decision based on your play style so get whichever you choose.

You are right that crit>haste for rets, but the back enchant is something that has been in question among rets for a while. 22agi vs 23haste is very close whichever way you choose. Personally I choose the haste enchant (except engineers, who use the 23agi / slow fall enchant) every time. The agility enchant gives about .42% crit, I think. I can't remember what the haste enchant gives off the top of my head, but it is better than agi from the many times I've tested it. I know it makes no sense since crit > haste, but the haste enchant is better.
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Re: Retribution, PvE or PvP

Postby Selgar » Mon Aug 16, 2010 9:11 am

Maballsies wrote:If you are looking for straight emblem gear here would be a quick list:

Most people will put expertise higher up, but since you are just looking to get your dps up for heroics, don't bother capping that. Do the easier thing and just stand behind the target



FYI 26 is the softcap for hitting from behind the mob (no parry from behind). I believe its 58 or so from the front.
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Re: Retribution, PvE or PvP

Postby Gamingdevil » Mon Aug 16, 2010 11:25 am

Selgar wrote:
Maballsies wrote:If you are looking for straight emblem gear here would be a quick list:

Most people will put expertise higher up, but since you are just looking to get your dps up for heroics, don't bother capping that. Do the easier thing and just stand behind the target



FYI 26 is the softcap for hitting from behind the mob (no parry from behind). I believe its 58 or so from the front.


Actually, for mobs below level 83, parry chance is the same as dodge chance. So in heroics, if you're raid soft capped, you'll eliminate parries as well.
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Re: Retribution, PvE or PvP

Postby Selgar » Tue Aug 17, 2010 8:40 am

Gamingdevil wrote:
Selgar wrote:
Maballsies wrote:If you are looking for straight emblem gear here would be a quick list:

Most people will put expertise higher up, but since you are just looking to get your dps up for heroics, don't bother capping that. Do the easier thing and just stand behind the target



FYI 26 is the softcap for hitting from behind the mob (no parry from behind). I believe its 58 or so from the front.


Actually, for mobs below level 83, parry chance is the same as dodge chance. So in heroics, if you're raid soft capped, you'll eliminate parries as well.



Except that mobs dont parry from behind. Standing behind you only need to cover dodge %, standing in front you need to cover dodge AND parry %. And I checked the hard cap is 56 expertise (on lvl 83 mobs) that will allow you to dps from the front if you wish.

The gear lists so far have been emblem gear and raid gear you dont need that for heroics. But anyway the implication was that with 26 expertise you could dps from the front with no parry's and I just wanted to make sure people understood that was not the case.
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Re: Retribution, PvE or PvP

Postby Maballsies » Wed Aug 18, 2010 8:05 am

Expertise is not needed for an OS used in heroics. Yes, 26 is the soft cap (and only realistic number a ret will ever need to know) but you do not need to worry about that since you realistically only need 16 after the glyph and that is ~2 pieces of gear with expertise on them.

Also, Hard Cap is generally 56, but there are a few fights the cap is 58, as stupid as it is >.<
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Re: Retribution, PvE or PvP

Postby ZeroKewl » Wed Aug 25, 2010 10:12 am

Okay just got my tank set full, and now have extra badges open. I see your listing , but the item level of the list you posted just seems so low compared to what is out there. Is there better or newer list out there?
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Re: Retribution, PvE or PvP

Postby Kelaan » Wed Aug 25, 2010 11:47 am

I doubt it, unless you consider spending Frost emblems on Ret gear. 2x T10 is TREMENDOUS in its effect: Divine Storm suddenly is the rock star that one would expect from a tree-topping talent. 2x T10/2xT9 seems to be pretty good, though 4x T10 is better overall. Good luck in Vault of Archavon and on spending excess Frost badges. ;)

You may be able to use pvp wrists, depending on whether the itemization is strong even without resilience being useful. I know my caster friends love the pvp wrists.

edit:
http://www.wowhead.com/compare?items=51364;47680;50230

PvP wrists vs Jaraxxus(10) wrists vs Malykriss bracers (ICC 5man bracers)
= (14 str, 21 crit, 60 stam) vs (48 arpen) vs (6 crit, 45 hit)

Malykriss bracers look better overall, but the PvP bracers are very close. They look better than the Jaraxxus ones, in fact. (Hm, I need to farm those, I guess?) More importantly, you can farm the honor for them potentially much more easily than you can get the Malykriss ones, as those only drop in heroic Pit of Saron.

Boots:
http://www.wowhead.com/compare?items=51 ... 7511;40742
PvP boots are Worse than the ICC 5-man heroic boots, but better than the heroic ToC/5 boots (I think, given the extra stamina). Hands-down better than the ilevel 213 boots. Again, more farmable than any of them, IMO, assuming you can stand battlegrounds.

Belt:
http://www.wowhead.com/compare?items=51 ... 08&focus=0
PvP belt is +1 socket, and trades 19 crit/37 str for 43 hit rating. Seems better to me, unless you need the hit rating.
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Re: Retribution, PvE or PvP

Postby Maballsies » Thu Aug 26, 2010 6:25 am

The item list is low because you did not want to spend high level emblems or money on your ret set. The gear I posted is the best gear there is until you get serious about ret.

And farm ToC25 for i245 tier9 2pc. It will stay with you until you have 3 i251 and 1 i264 tier10. As for the pvp stuff, you are comparing i264 with i219 and i226. Of course the item 2 tiers above will be slightly higher, but once you start looking at i245 gear, the pvp will be less than the pve gear, despite the lower gs.
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Re: Retribution, PvE or PvP

Postby ZeroKewl » Fri Aug 27, 2010 5:16 pm

Looking at badge and crafted items where would you go?

4/4 T9 chest leg hand head
245 wrist
232 shoulder non tier
232 weapon tyrannical
245 hit trinket


Also for gemming when is it worth matching? Guessing yellow 10 crit str is okay. Using 10 stats gem in wrist for blue slot.
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