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[PVP Prot] Questions

Ret, Holy, PVP, etc

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[PVP Prot] Questions

Postby Autofollow » Fri Jul 30, 2010 11:39 am

Well, it seems that it's the usual "I'm bored and waiting for new game content" and I'm thinking it's time to mix things up with a little PVP action. Also, with the changes to raid content coming with Cata and the push towards PVP from Blizzard it seems that I may as well get a small start on it now so I'm not totally new to it when the time comes.

I used to PVP on my Druid before I came to be a Pally and to be honest I hated it. I made the switch to my Pally a few months back to OT our guild 25's and MT one of our 10's groups and haven't looked back once. I think I know where all of my heal buttons are for the Druid but they're deeply layered in dust and I'm not known for being too motivated to clean.

Basically, I started playing around in BG's with a few people I know using a Prot spec I put together that seemed to make sense to me. I'm not looking for "Can I please have all your macro's to make this easy for me" or "What class combo will make me win". I don't see many Prot Pallies in BG's and it's kind of made me think to do it just to be different. And.... I'll try to get to the point now.

Class: Pally duh =P
Spec: Prot 7/52/12
Comp: N/A
Rating (If Applicable): Nope, not yet.

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Onyxia&cn=Autofollow&gn=Eternal

Seeing the gear and spec I was just curious on any comments. I've felt fairly indestructible running around the BG's unless I get a ton of people on me. I've read all the posts about PVE gear Armor and Defense not making a difference in PVP but figured that my health pool would help make up for the extra damage I'll take. I went for reductions to stuns/slows/etc while trying to utilize the decreased timer on HoJ and increased dmg from a single target AS while I still have my CD's for DP, DS-DG, and trinkets. So far, it's seemed to work out fairly well.

A few people I've spoken with have recommended staying with the Prot spec but gearing and gemming like a Ret with full PVP gear.

Any thoughts?
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Re: [PVP Prot] Questions

Postby Kedon » Sat Jul 31, 2010 7:50 am

Autofollow wrote:
A few people I've spoken with have recommended staying with the Prot spec but gearing and gemming like a Ret with full PVP gear.


That's really the whole point in prot pvp. A mix of ret pvp and pve gear, a good shield and a slow dps main hand does wonders. And yeah full strength gems.

If you just go in pve tank gear, your higher health pool makes very little difference in the end. Ranged classes will kill you easily. Melee will have some trouble hitting you, but as a ret paladin at least, it's fairly easy to kill pve tanks with kiting and Judgements and Exorcism when they have no resilience.

Your damage is nowhere near what you could do in ret gear if you're in pve tank gear as well.
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Re: [PVP Prot] Questions

Postby Autofollow » Wed Aug 04, 2010 9:46 am

Kedon wrote:If you just go in pve tank gear, your higher health pool makes very little difference in the end. Ranged classes will kill you easily.


^ This :(

Thanks for the response. I've been playing with it and have noticed exactly what you mentioned. Some classes are not an issue but anyone that understands kiting has my number. Oh, and EFF warlocks, lol. Anyway I'm going to buy my set of Ret gear and gem STR with my spec and see what happens. BG's and WG with Tenacity 20 are fun though. Nothing like 225K health to make me feel like a raid boss.
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Re: [PVP Prot] Questions

Postby Punkss2 » Wed Aug 25, 2010 9:54 am

Didn't want to start a new thread since this was here already. Any tips for my on my build (i copied Invis' build tbh) and or gear choices, I actually have just a bout a full set of Ret pvp gear. I think the way i have my gear set up now, ive got about 860ish resil, is that not as important of a stat?

Thanks for the help.
Thinking of starting WOW again....
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Re: [PVP Prot] Questions

Postby blakk » Thu Aug 26, 2010 9:23 am

Punkss2 wrote:Didn't want to start a new thread since this was here already. Any tips for my on my build (i copied Invis' build tbh) and or gear choices, I actually have just a bout a full set of Ret pvp gear. I think the way i have my gear set up now, ive got about 860ish resil, is that not as important of a stat?

Thanks for the help.

I run with about 200 resilience and I don't feel squishy at all. Using mostly ret pve gear and a few tier pieces for massive hotr smacks. Only real problem for me is a good Mage and some VERY VERY good players who know what to do to make a prot cry. DONT FORGET SS.
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Re: [PVP Prot] Questions

Postby Decadere » Fri Oct 15, 2010 6:08 pm

After 4.0 patch Prot PVP has been feeling squishy and dead in the water. After the next patch that will increase resilience effectiveness we might survive more than 10 secs of combat with a caster but as of this moment we just can't stand up to them.

With full Relentless gear I'm at half HP before i can move. Our DPS output also lowered considerably with the loss of SOC. I guess its time to crack out the two-handed weapon and dish out some righteous retribution.
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Re: [PVP Prot] Questions

Postby econ21 » Wed Oct 20, 2010 2:12 pm

Decadere wrote:After 4.0 patch Prot PVP has been feeling squishy and dead in the water.


I agree, although I suspect most classes feel squishy now. The patch seems to have boosted dps without a corresponding increase in survivability.

I only do Wintergrasp casually, but suffer from (a) the loss the +100% Avenger Shield glyph boost (it's down to 30% and I am not taking it, as I like the AOE functionality for PvE now); (b) the loss of pursuit of justice; (c) the loss of improved hammer of justice (can't find room for it in my spec, which is for PvE). All these things that, whereas before I could quite confidently duel most opponents in Wintergrasp (good ones would kill me, but I could kill many others), now I would generally avoid such one on one fights.

There are some consolations - we now have more sustained ranged capability with lower cool downs on AS and improved judgements; and we seem far less mana starved than before. But I think we are even more of a support class than before - we should not fight alone, but rather try to "tank" other groups. Fire off avenger shield, stun, consecrate, shield bash etc and hope to distract the enemy in order buy time for other more lethal allies to do their stuff. We still have above average survivability with a bubble, lay on hands, our armour and hitpoints, cleanse etc.

I don't see a role for us in rated BGs and arenas, to be honest (we'd be better off healing or retadining), but we are fine for letting off steam in Wintergrasp and casual BGs.
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Re: [PVP Prot] Questions

Postby Orthien » Wed Oct 20, 2010 7:39 pm

Decadere wrote:After 4.0 patch Prot PVP has been feeling squishy and dead in the water.


I disagree. While we are a little more squishy with the removal of SS and no longer having a Magic cleanse hurts I have found that WoG far makes up for that.
In BG's now I am pulling the same damage with less deaths and more killing blows.
The problem is you have to run a true PvP spec to be viable, not having IHoJ and EG full points in you build will hurt alot same goes for the Ret tier 2 skills when we can get them at 85.

I put our role same as we were before except we traded our burst and increased kitability for more stopping force, greater annoyance factor, even harder to kill and more team utility.
To me that's a win for Prot PvP

Also keep in mind these tree are build around level 85 PvP where we will have PoJ, until then the run speed to boot enchant is your friend.

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Barthilas&cn=Orthien
My second spec is for PvP only and I will log out in my PvP gear next time I am on.

My last BG was a WSG with 12 KB 3Deaths 56 HK 600k Damage done 150k healing 3 flag returns and 2 flag caps.
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Re: [PVP Prot] Questions

Postby Extermi » Wed Nov 03, 2010 12:20 am

Being a long time Prot PvP player (a little over 2000 rating) I tend to think the spec is dead, either, at least for arenas. Our key advantage has always been:

- The very high damage reduction we had - ~15% by talents
- Melee killer talents: "free" 10% parry/dodge etc. , damage reflecting holy shield that blocks week melee attacks
- 30s talented stun against casters
- Fast movement with PoJ
- High DOT damage from seal
- Very high burst from shield slam
- AD damage reduction

Now:
- Damage reduction reduced to 10%, while at the same time resilience got boosted across the bank -> lower advantage
- "Free" dodge etc gone, holy shield does not reflect damage and only blocks a percentage
- Stun up to 40s talented
- PoJ gone
- Seal damage reduced
- Burst requires to be 10s in melee range to get holy power
- AD cooldown nerfed

While WoG is great, it still needs the Holy Power build in melee range, while all other signs are negative.

I, personally, will move on to a Ret Spec again, and not look back. For flag carraying in Warsong prot is still great, though :-)

Edit: Tried, but went back to Prot because its more fun :-) Also, 3 HoPo with DP is helping to get some burst. After some testing its not worse than Pre-Patch, and I will give it another try @85

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