[DK] The DK Low Level Tanking thread

Ret, Holy, PVP, etc

Moderators: Fridmarr, Worldie, Aergis, Baelor

Re: [DK] The DK Low Level Tanking thread

Postby Shoju » Sat Jun 05, 2010 5:29 pm

nothing constructive here. Editing it out.
Last edited by Shoju on Mon Jun 07, 2010 11:52 am, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Shoju
 
Posts: 6391
Joined: Mon May 19, 2008 7:15 am

Re: [DK] The DK Low Level Tanking thread

Postby Baelor » Sat Jun 05, 2010 7:55 pm

Don't make me call in the banhammers and the thread locks, people. Keep it on topic and constructive.

Lev - baiting people with comments such as:
Levantine wrote:Troll disclaimer: From this point on nothing I say is particularly constructive due to my burning disdain for Death Knights who find 'adequate' as acceptable

Jesus christ I haven't raided in months and I'm still better than 90% of DK posters here.

... and...
I'm sorry, all I see is QQQQQQQQQQQQ the troll hurt my feelings.

Have fun being merely adequate. I never could understand a person's lack of desire to be the best that they could be, but then again, I try not to associate myself with Death Knight players most of the time anyway. Do us all a favor though and quit preaching that playing frost as a rotational spec is good, it's not. If it works for you, that's great, as I said, have fun being mediocre in comparison to what you could be, just stop talking about it lest you influence a new Death Knight into thinking it's a good way to play.

... is exactly what sets off community members and what causes me to come in here with mod tools. Knock if off. Now. Maintankadin is not the official forums and the derision/abrasiveness in your posts is not becoming of a Maintankadin community member. I don't care if you've been here since launch or since yesterday, this isn't the way to go about continuing a conversation on these forums. I once again refer you to the forum Code of Conduct:
Be considerate and respectful of others. Everyone plays this game for the same reason - to have fun. This extends to these forums as well. Please try not to be rude or disrespectful to others (no matter how wrong they are). If you must get into an argument with someone, please do so with civility, and with consideration to their viewpoints as well.



Shoju - while I understand your position, the profanity and vulgarity in your response and the personal attacks on another community member are not the way to go about it. The Report feature is the best way to get this taken care of. Fridmarr, myself, and the rest of the Moderator crew keep an eye on the post reports instead of reading every thread and policing the forum by brute force. Report it, we'll clean it up privately, and then we can all move on without this sort of ugliness.


All - I will not hesitate to lock or delete this thread if it's not back on track after this post.
I am the light that brings the dawn.
Something Wicked this way comes.
Formerly: Baelor of Runetotem-US (2006-2007) | Cathmor of Malfurion-US (2007-2010)
Follow me on Twitter
User avatar
Baelor
Moderator
 
Posts: 2677
Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2007 10:42 am
Location: New York

Re: [DK] The DK Low Level Tanking thread

Postby bldavis » Sat Jun 05, 2010 11:01 pm

no i havent read the entire thread, but has anyone linked a leveling tank/dps hybrid build to work on while leveling? (or can they pls?)

i prefer blood, but i will try frost or UH
i love tanking, and dk is enough of a change from pally and warrior tanking to be fun if im tired of shield bashing
Image

Brekkie:Tanks are like shitty DPS. And healers are like REALLY distracted DPS
Amirya:Why yes, your penis is longer than his because you hit 30k dps in the first 10 seconds. But guess what? That raid boss has a dick bigger than your ego.
Flex:I don't make mistakes. I execute carefully planned strategic group wipes.
Levie:(in /g) It's weird, I have a collar and I dont know where I got it from, Worgen are kinky!
Levie:Drunk Lev goes and does what he pleases just to annoy sober Lev.
Sagara:You see, you need to *spread* the bun before you insert the hot dog.
User avatar
bldavis
 
Posts: 7411
Joined: Mon Sep 07, 2009 12:04 pm
Location: Searching for myself. If i get back before I return, please have me stop and wait for myself.

Re: [DK] The DK Low Level Tanking thread

Postby Vorianloken » Sun Jun 06, 2010 2:28 am

bldavis wrote:no i havent read the entire thread, but has anyone linked a leveling tank/dps hybrid build to work on while leveling? (or can they pls?)

i prefer blood, but i will try frost or UH
i love tanking, and dk is enough of a change from pally and warrior tanking to be fun if im tired of shield bashing


No idea if there are any other better builds out there but http://www.wowhead.com/talent#jbxRZhxxx ... zAo0gb:kao is what I came up with. You should be able to tank anything just great and your dps won't be too bad either :)

If anyone else has any suggestions go ahead.
Vorianloken - 80 Prot/Ret || Ajeet - 80 Frost Tank/Unholy DPS || Nunnaly - 80 Cat/Tree Druid || Bulveye - 74 Protection Warrior || Sherana - 80 Combat Rogue || Shadallas - 40 Demo Warlock

US-Medivh Power! 7th April 2010 - The day when Dual-Wield Frost Tanking was assassinated. R.I.P my dear friend.
Vorianloken
 
Posts: 498
Joined: Tue Nov 10, 2009 1:56 pm
Location: Los Angeles, US

Re: [DK] The DK Low Level Tanking thread

Postby amh » Sun Jun 06, 2010 3:17 am

bldavis wrote:no i havent read the entire thread, but has anyone linked a leveling tank/dps hybrid build to work on while leveling? (or can they pls?)


Page one, post two. :)
I used to play a paladin.
User avatar
amh
Maintankadonor
 
Posts: 3012
Joined: Fri May 02, 2008 6:25 am
Location: Oh hi

Re: [DK] The DK Low Level Tanking thread

Postby cds4850 » Sun Jun 06, 2010 8:47 am

I think people that take pride in their class and playstyle take offense to those who are forthcoming with advice predicated by oversight of best practices.

I know I am.

If I lived in a trailer, I wouldn't be spouting off financial advice to others.
cds4850
 
Posts: 135
Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2009 7:49 am

Re: [DK] The DK Low Level Tanking thread

Postby blakk » Sun Jun 06, 2010 10:18 am

bldavis wrote:no i havent read the entire thread, but has anyone linked a leveling tank/dps hybrid build to work on while leveling? (or can they pls?)

i prefer blood, but i will try frost or UH
i love tanking, and dk is enough of a change from pally and warrior tanking to be fun if im tired of shield bashing

I would not recomend blood for 5 mans. You need better aoe than blood offers. Other than that up until 70 or so a real tank spec isn't really neccessary if you know what you're doing. Once you start getting into the wrath dungeons you may spec for more tank orriented tallents like the 3 bases of the trees. Once you hve dual spec you can do whatever you want though
blakk
 
Posts: 484
Joined: Tue Apr 07, 2009 6:33 am

Re: [DK] The DK Low Level Tanking thread

Postby amh » Sun Jun 06, 2010 10:46 am

blakk wrote:I would not recomend blood for 5 mans. You need better aoe than blood offers.


I think this is a case of YMMV. I've never had any issues with blood aoe-threat at any character/gear level.
I used to play a paladin.
User avatar
amh
Maintankadonor
 
Posts: 3012
Joined: Fri May 02, 2008 6:25 am
Location: Oh hi

Re: [DK] The DK Low Level Tanking thread

Postby Shoju » Sun Jun 06, 2010 5:28 pm

cds4850 wrote:I think people that take pride in their class and playstyle take offense to those who are forthcoming with advice predicated by oversight of best practices.

I know I am.

If I lived in a trailer, I wouldn't be spouting off financial advice to others.



The Thing is, the proc works on three abilities. Icy Touch, Frost Strike, and Howling Blast. Now, I would never blow Killing Machine on Icy Touch unless I REALLY need the IT for the threat, BUT. IF I need the FS NOW For threat on a mob, I'm not going to wait for Howling Blast, even if I'm in an AoE situation.

I'm not talking about Rime here. If you aren't maximizing rime, well then you just aren't playing it right. Rime is FREE. No runes, resets the cooldown. I realize now that I should probably have mentioned that earlier. i'm specifically speaking of Killing Machine, something that in my current tank build I don't have maxed out.

There is no oversight of best practices here. There is a difference of opinion in the need to wait on a proc SINGLE proc.

Comparing the way that I and others play frost in that way is a pretty silly analogy.

As far as blood is concerned:
Blood is just fine for 5 mans, It is a little rough if you are the undergeared one in an AoE situation. Now, once you are in standard heroics smashing gear (plenty of EoT gear), blood is more than passing, more than acceptable, more than enough AoE.

You can tank anything in TBC as a DK with a marginally useful spec, and a working knowledge of the class, though just like any other tank class, the difference between UK and TBC dungeons is noticeable.
User avatar
Shoju
 
Posts: 6391
Joined: Mon May 19, 2008 7:15 am

Re: [DK] The DK Low Level Tanking thread

Postby Kelaan » Mon Jun 07, 2010 11:11 am

bldavis wrote:i prefer blood, but i will try frost or UH
i love tanking, and dk is enough of a change from pally and warrior tanking to be fun if im tired of shield bashing


I leveled past 70 with a build with basically this at it's core:

http://www.wowhead.com/talent#jfzGoIcIofRdsstZfM:GpZVm

It's a Blood tree with mostly DPS talents chosen, with things like self-heals when you kill things. It's not optimal for tanking, but I solo'ed most of my group quests by just swapping to tank gear and frost presence. With tanking gear, I didn't really feel the need to spec specifically as a "tank" -- half-assed tanking+DPS specs were GREAT for leveling. You still get DPS cooldowns (like DRW), but you have a whole lot of self-healing options when you want to. You shouldn't be hurting for threat, damage, or mitigation as a leveling DK. Clearly, once you get to 80, you'd want to dual spec to things that you like. :) (E.g., my DK is blood for tanking and DPS.)

By comparison, I was Frost until 71, and soloed some of the group quests (and all the nongroup ones) in Howling Fjord -- it works too, just feels different. Frost felt like a race against the health bar timer, whereas Blood felt a lot safer. Frost's bursting with frosty DPS procs, though, made for entertaining pulls.

Glyph of Disease is a convenience: it's suboptimal but very pleasant.
User avatar
Kelaan
 
Posts: 4037
Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2008 12:01 pm

Re: [DK] The DK Low Level Tanking thread

Postby Kelaan » Mon Jun 07, 2010 11:17 am

Shoju wrote:Blood is just fine for 5 mans, It is a little rough if you are the undergeared one in an AoE situation....

You can tank anything in TBC as a DK with a marginally useful spec, and a working knowledge of the class, though just like any other tank class, the difference between UK and TBC dungeons is noticeable.


Well said. To elaborate: Blood's initial AOE isn't as good as a Howling Blast, but a Death and Decay + disease-spread pull is enough to hold off most AOE -- especially if you are aggressive in pulling before DPS get a chance to finish drinking, picking their noses, etc. You may often get one or two people who push you hard, esp now that BoA gear is out, but you can say something like, "Please wait 5 seconds on a pull before you start DPS; my initial AOE threat is less than some DK specs, but is fine in the long run.", or "Please wait on AOE until the skull is at half health." If you don't mark a skull, people assume AOE (and often do even with the mark).

Your best tool for threat is to pull aggressively. If you have a D&D down and diseases spreading before your DPS have caught up to you, you have a good head start.
User avatar
Kelaan
 
Posts: 4037
Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2008 12:01 pm

Re: [DK] The DK Low Level Tanking thread

Postby Hokahey » Tue Jun 08, 2010 4:24 pm

Allow me to clarify my previous post.

The Frost tanking "rotation" I use is a priority queue. However, just like most other classes, that priority queue results in a rotation-like effect, but interspersed with an ability or 2 used based on certain procs, the available resources at that moment, and that ability's location in your priority queue. Those procs do not always occur. In fact, if a pull is short enough, I may never see KM or Rime proc. As such, it doesn't make sense to wait to use an available ability. If the attack is available, and its next on my list of priorities, and I have the time and resources to use it, it gets used.

WHEN KM procs, it will be consumed the next time one of the abilities it effects comes available, which is almost always what would have been used whether or not KM had procced. All runes are put on cooldown virtually as soon as they come up excluding when I am waiting for that second Death rune, usually a single GCD, which I will fill with another available ability *if there are any*. Runic Power is consumed any time Rune Strike is available and I have Runic Power to use it, which means there's very rarely enough RP to use Frost Strike the moment KM procs. So KM procs usually end up being consumed on the next Icy Touch in single target fights or Howling Blast in pulls with more than 1 mob. In other words, it rarely changes anything, resulting in a fairly fixed rotation.

When Rime procs, it gets used at a higher priority than the next Obliterate on single target fights, and if enough time remains on Blade Barrier that it is not in danger of falling off (>3 seconds). In pulls with a group of mobs, HB trumps everything but Blade Barrier when available. Even then, under some circumstances I may intentionally hold off, if I'm anticipating adds arriving during the fight, and don't want HB on cooldown.

If you're going to say what I've described here is sub-optimal in a realistic in game-scenario (where it is uncertain at what time or under what circumstances a buff/ability will proc), thats fine. Just explain precisely how, and provide something tangible to back that assertion up.
Hokahey
 
Posts: 863
Joined: Fri Sep 18, 2009 8:42 am

Re: [DK] The DK Low Level Tanking thread

Postby cds4850 » Wed Jun 09, 2010 4:17 pm

Lev, can you direct me to some endgame DK threads? I searched through EJ and only found the "fireside" guilde which talked about rotations and builds. I'm curious about gearing strategies and whether or not there is a significant difference in stat prioritization (ie significance of hit/exp caps, agi v exp v dodge for purple gems, etc.)
cds4850
 
Posts: 135
Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2009 7:49 am

Re: [DK] The DK Low Level Tanking thread

Postby Vorianloken » Thu Jun 10, 2010 2:22 am

cds4850 wrote:Lev, can you direct me to some endgame DK threads? I searched through EJ and only found the "fireside" guilde which talked about rotations and builds. I'm curious about gearing strategies and whether or not there is a significant difference in stat prioritization (ie significance of hit/exp caps, agi v exp v dodge for purple gems, etc.)


I believe that pwnwear.com is a very good resource for DK tanking. Haven't really been there myself but its usually the one place that I hear about from a lot of DKs. Kinda like how MTadin is for us :)
Vorianloken - 80 Prot/Ret || Ajeet - 80 Frost Tank/Unholy DPS || Nunnaly - 80 Cat/Tree Druid || Bulveye - 74 Protection Warrior || Sherana - 80 Combat Rogue || Shadallas - 40 Demo Warlock

US-Medivh Power! 7th April 2010 - The day when Dual-Wield Frost Tanking was assassinated. R.I.P my dear friend.
Vorianloken
 
Posts: 498
Joined: Tue Nov 10, 2009 1:56 pm
Location: Los Angeles, US

Re: [DK] The DK Low Level Tanking thread

Postby cds4850 » Mon Jun 14, 2010 7:30 am

Thanks for the input so far. I'm pretty proud of my little guy now:

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-shee ... s&cn=Herbz

To date I've only been thrown out of one ToC25 PuG on account of GS (whatever that is.) I do have a couple questions about talent point allocation. After reading what the guys at EJ have put together for endgame blood tanking, I question a few of their last point allocations:

http://elitistjerks.com/f72/t44638-suno ... e_tanking/

Their build is linked midway through the first post. The first thing that strikes me as off is their choice of grabbing Dancing Rune Weapon. I do not see the benefit of having DRW as a tank, so I've dropped that point from my build. So where to place that bastard talent point? Their build also has one point in Sudden Doom, and a point into Scent of Blood, either could be a possible home for my newly freed up talent point. So, which would yield more threat per point? What about putting that extra point into the unholy tree to grab Ravenous Dead for the added 1% strength which will contribute to threat output as well as a marginal parry gain? Of course, there's always the option of taking out those three points in question and placing them in Spell Deflection, but I have a feeling there is some thorough post that shows that talent, even at 3/3, to be a flawed allocation of points.

My question really boils down to this: is there a DK equivalent to Thecks talent breakdown?
Image
cds4850
 
Posts: 135
Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2009 7:49 am

PreviousNext

Return to Off-specs & Other Classes

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

Who is online

In total there is 1 user online :: 0 registered, 0 hidden and 1 guest (based on users active over the past 5 minutes)
Most users ever online was 380 on Tue Oct 14, 2008 6:28 pm

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest