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[DK] The DK Low Level Tanking thread

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Re: [DK] The DK Low Level Tanking thread

Postby Hokahey » Fri Jun 04, 2010 11:31 am

Vorianloken wrote:Aww come on Shoju.

Don't tell me you don't try to line up KM+Rime for trash :) Or time KM for an HB.


I can honestly say I don't while tanking, in general. Its nice when it happens, but HB and UF runes are on cooldown constantly. When they come up, they get used immediately. Rime procs get used on trash when they come up. They don't get used on bosses unless there's literally no other damage ability on the GCD that *can* be used at that moment.

While DPSing, yes, I will go out of my way to use Frost Strike (or HB if an AoE pull) when KM procs.

I have to agree with Shoju on this one.
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Re: [DK] The DK Low Level Tanking thread

Postby Shoju » Fri Jun 04, 2010 12:22 pm

Yes, I seriously do not try and line up anything. If I'm AoE tanking, I DnD - HB - BB - BB - OB - FS (if over 52 RP). Once I get past that, I HB - BB - BB - OB - FS over and over and over until I get to 1 mob then I will IT- PS - BS - BS - OB if it is going to be up for a while.

I seriously do not time procs at all. They come when they come, and I'm not going to hold off on tabbing and OB/FSing through mobs so that I can HB in a couple of seconds.

I have RS macro'd into OB, BB, BS, PS.

I also single disease tank anything that I'm AoEing. I don't both with PS or Pest. GoHB makes it work far easier.


Like I said in another thread, I'm not going to get involved in any serious DK tanking threads, because according to a lot of DK's, I'm doing it oh so very wrong. It works for me, and even if I did do something like make my DK my main, I doubt I would change my frost tanking style because it works for me.
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Re: [DK] The DK Low Level Tanking thread

Postby cds4850 » Fri Jun 04, 2010 12:34 pm

Yeah, I've got to try frost tanking out this weekend. My 77DK just got his 2h from the Zul Drak ampitheatre for Blood tanking and the 2.6speed tanking axe from the really angry walrus in Zul Drak. Now I just need to find another 1h with which to smash stuff. I'm assuming frost DW prefers two slow weapons versus MHslow/OHfast?
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Re: [DK] The DK Low Level Tanking thread

Postby Shoju » Fri Jun 04, 2010 12:36 pm

pref slow/slow, but it is acceptable to do slow/tank. fast/fast is generally frowned upon for threat reasons, but I have at times DW Rimefang's
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Re: [DK] The DK Low Level Tanking thread

Postby Korola » Fri Jun 04, 2010 12:42 pm

Shoju wrote:Yes, I seriously do not try and line up anything. If I'm AoE tanking, I DnD - HB - BB - BB - OB - FS (if over 52 RP). Once I get past that, I HB - BB - BB - OB - FS over and over and over until I get to 1 mob then I will IT- PS - BS - BS - OB if it is going to be up for a while.

I seriously do not time procs at all. They come when they come, and I'm not going to hold off on tabbing and OB/FSing through mobs so that I can HB in a couple of seconds.

I have RS macro'd into OB, BB, BS, PS.

I also single disease tank anything that I'm AoEing. I don't both with PS or Pest. GoHB makes it work far easier.


Like I said in another thread, I'm not going to get involved in any serious DK tanking threads, because according to a lot of DK's, I'm doing it oh so very wrong. It works for me, and even if I did do something like make my DK my main, I doubt I would change my frost tanking style because it works for me.


I use the add on 'tell me when' when I dps (ret), because I like to watch for zerker procs, trinket procs, and combine them with avenging wrath to maximize dps. I know I should have the same mentality on my frost DK tanking, but I really look at how much threat I'm missing to wait for procs. It takes almost no time to set up the buff windows, but I honestly wouldn't wait for them anyways. I suppose if I was progression tanking, it might be a concern, but in reg dungeons I am always WAY ahead of the dps (read 70k threat VS. 15k dps threat by the time the mob dies). IT and HB are way overpowered, and I usually get very little that pushes me. I should probably start forming the 'right' habits now, but i seriously doubt he will see any progression fights this expansion.

TL:DR With bleeding edge dps I might try to time procs. I did say might. The blue crew dps reg dungeon groupies pulling 1200 dps - not worth the time.
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Re: [DK] The DK Low Level Tanking thread

Postby Shoju » Fri Jun 04, 2010 1:29 pm

My DK tank is ICC10 ready and going against out DPSers who go bananas doing 8+ k DPS the only time I will lose threat is if they get started before the HB goes off.

After seeing that I was able to stay ahead of them, it felt like trying to watch the procs was just adding more threat that I don't need, and it might add a 'little' dps, but I'm pulling 2-2500 on most single target fights, and 3500-4k on AoE packs, I'm not overly worried about it.

Like Korola, my DK isn't going to see any progression fights that would even remotely push him.
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Re: [DK] The DK Low Level Tanking thread

Postby Levantine » Fri Jun 04, 2010 5:49 pm

Yeah well, call me an elitist asshole, but I think you're bad and letting yourself (and others) down for not playing frost to its fullest potential. I happen to think the same about everyone who plays Frost with a definite rotation.

Also, if you need the defensive properties of tank/tank it's perfectly acceptable. Your DPS will suffer as you'll be forced to Icy Touch more to maintain the same threat, but DK threat is a total non-issue.

Troll disclaimer: From this point on nothing I say is particularly constructive due to my burning disdain for Death Knights who find 'adequate' as acceptable

Jesus christ I haven't raided in months and I'm still better than 90% of DK posters here.
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Re: [DK] The DK Low Level Tanking thread

Postby Gracerath » Sat Jun 05, 2010 12:17 am

Basically.

Frost is all about watching your procs and knowing your priorities. If you're not using them to their full potential, you're missing out on a lot. Frost is so fluid and dynamic and I think it enforces good play from those willing to take advantage of it. Being able to adapt on the fly translates to good play in so many other things in game.

Sure, you don't NEED to but why not do it anyway? Its not a hardship. Watching and reacting the procs doesn't just mean more threat, it also means more DPS from you. Why do just the bare minimum? And I'm of the mind that if your group sucks, its well worth the time to be able to push more out of your own perfomance, unless your time isn't worth much to you. :P
Bye space sword!
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Re: [DK] The DK Low Level Tanking thread

Postby Vorianloken » Sat Jun 05, 2010 12:34 am

As I mentioned before, Blood is the one with the definite hard-nosed spam rotation and Frost is the 'fun' one with procs to watch for. If you are going to ignore the procs then why play as frost which is about those procs anyway?

If watching KM and Rime procs and timing their usage right can push your single-target or AE dps as a tank then why not? What do you lose? What do you gain? Bosses go down that much faster, less margin that someone's screwup will negatively impact the attempt, more time to work on other bosses, more fun for you since you are clearing faster and maybe can end the raid early and then go have some beers :)

The way I take it, not taking advantage of KM/Rime procs is like ignoring the free shield slams on a warrior or ignoring Art of War procs to heal people or damage a target. You don't HAVE to use those procs but why not? You don't lose anything.
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US-Medivh Power! 7th April 2010 - The day when Dual-Wield Frost Tanking was assassinated. R.I.P my dear friend.
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Re: [DK] The DK Low Level Tanking thread

Postby Korola » Sat Jun 05, 2010 7:43 am

Let me repeat - my DK will not see any progression fights.

Threat is a non issue. Time is a non issue. My skill isn't the issue either. Most RDF groups ask me to tank more. People aren't dying, I'm almost always on top of the meters, and the healer is never stressed. Because of all this, I'm not watching for procs because it doesn't matter to me. I could care less. Call me bad or adequate or whatever the fuck you want to, but the groups I'm in speak for themselves. I get invited back. Have made many friends because everyone likes a good tank on their friends list. You say adequate and bad, I say keep comments like that on the wow forums. I could see pointing someone towards being better if they were asking. Somehow -

Jesus christ I haven't raided in months and I'm still better than 90% of DK posters here.


Serves no other purpose than to inflame people and has no point in a discussion. I might also remind you -

Be considerate and respectful of others. Everyone plays this game for the same reason - to have fun. This extends to these forums as well. Please try not to be rude or disrespectful to others (no matter how wrong they are). If you must get into an argument with someone, please do so with civility, and with consideration to their viewpoints as well.

Post like this: "I understand your opinion, but I disagree."
Not like this: "You might think that, but that's because you're stupid."


Thanks for the advice :roll: if that's what you call that.
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Re: [DK] The DK Low Level Tanking thread

Postby Levantine » Sat Jun 05, 2010 7:46 am

I'm sorry, all I see is QQQQQQQQQQQQ the troll hurt my feelings.

Have fun being merely adequate. I never could understand a person's lack of desire to be the best that they could be, but then again, I try not to associate myself with Death Knight players most of the time anyway. Do us all a favor though and quit preaching that playing frost as a rotational spec is good, it's not. If it works for you, that's great, as I said, have fun being mediocre in comparison to what you could be, just stop talking about it lest you influence a new Death Knight into thinking it's a good way to play.
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Re: [DK] The DK Low Level Tanking thread

Postby Korola » Sat Jun 05, 2010 9:04 am

Levantine wrote:I'm sorry, all I see is QQQQQQQQQQQQ the troll hurt my feelings.

Have fun being merely adequate. I never could understand a person's lack of desire to be the best that they could be, but then again, I try not to associate myself with Death Knight players most of the time anyway. Do us all a favor though and quit preaching that playing frost as a rotational spec is good, it's not. If it works for you, that's great, as I said, have fun being mediocre in comparison to what you could be, just stop talking about it lest you influence a new Death Knight into thinking it's a good way to play.


No hurt feelings. I know that is all you are looking for with your inflammatory comments. I never said frost was a rotational spec. I merely said I do not watch for procs. I use the runes in a conditional fashion. I use the abilities that I have, when I want to use them. It serves me no purpose to base what I do waiting for a proc. I would take any advice you have, but I see no advice here.

I don't like the way it feels when tellmewhen is loaded to show killing machine and rime procs. No amount of slander and chest pounding will change that. It could be that I just don't like frost, but I do not think that is the case. I have found a niche to use the spec as I feel it works for me. In a world of min/max, my frost dk does not fit in. It is clearly proven that watching for KM and rime is better. I can't refute that point. Because I don't enjoy playing that way doesn't make me mediocre. It merely makes me sub optimal.

I am actually surprised to see such an immature response on Maintankadin.
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Re: [DK] The DK Low Level Tanking thread

Postby Vorianloken » Sat Jun 05, 2010 9:20 am

Getting too off-topic here talking about player approach to how they want to play their toons and being derogatory and defensive.

Korola, do you find timing the proc-usage to be un-fun? Does it seem "tacked on"? If yes, then why? Because for me that's the beauty of the spec and the beauty of a prot warrior watching for those free SnB procs for free s-slams. And if you don't time the procs and just keep on with a "rotation" then aren't you locking yourself down anyway?

Because the procs are there to change the "rotation". Let me ask it in another way. For deathwhisper adds, do you time your KM procs for a free/runic HB? On Marrowgar when people are spiked do you do the same? For gunship adds? I don't know whats the extent of your ICC experience so I will wait to mention any other bosses.

What it boils down for me, whether a lol-heroic instance or a raid is to make it as efficient on time as possible and not let the DPS ever catch up. I've been in heroics of all types - where dps go all out on mobs before you even sneeze on them or ones which wait for you to pick them up properly, high dps and low dps. My personal mentality doesn't change with regard to what I'm doing.

I recognize you do things differently as do other people and my main question is why? Unless you are there inside an instance to just enjoy the experience and take it at a leisurely pace then why not speed things along? A minute here, a few seconds there, it can all add up quite a bit :)
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US-Medivh Power! 7th April 2010 - The day when Dual-Wield Frost Tanking was assassinated. R.I.P my dear friend.
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Re: [DK] The DK Low Level Tanking thread

Postby Korola » Sat Jun 05, 2010 9:38 am

I just don't like the way it feels.

This might be up for more discussion as a thread titled "[PVE Frost DK] Help me tank ICC Progression". Being titled the DK low level tanking thread, most death knights would simply find that using DnD and dark command would be sufficient for low level dungeons. The rest is up to play style. I don't use a rotation, I just don't watch for procs. I know it boggles people's minds that you could play in such a fashion, but that is how I like to play. I don't intend to use him for progression this expansion, he is merely being leveled to be at cap for Cata. I really don't think I would enjoy the spec the way it is supposed to be played. Therefore I am not advocating that people play the way I do, just expressing an opinion. It is possible I am alone in my play style, but I doubt it. I never said anything against watching for procs, just that I don't do it. Who knows, maybe I will get him to 80 and mess around with tellmewhen and see how it feels at 80.
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Re: [DK] The DK Low Level Tanking thread

Postby Levantine » Sat Jun 05, 2010 5:09 pm

Korola wrote:
Levantine wrote:I'm sorry, all I see is QQQQQQQQQQQQ the troll hurt my feelings.

Have fun being merely adequate. I never could understand a person's lack of desire to be the best that they could be, but then again, I try not to associate myself with Death Knight players most of the time anyway. Do us all a favor though and quit preaching that playing frost as a rotational spec is good, it's not. If it works for you, that's great, as I said, have fun being mediocre in comparison to what you could be, just stop talking about it lest you influence a new Death Knight into thinking it's a good way to play.


No hurt feelings. I know that is all you are looking for with your inflammatory comments. I never said frost was a rotational spec. I merely said I do not watch for procs. I use the runes in a conditional fashion. I use the abilities that I have, when I want to use them. It serves me no purpose to base what I do waiting for a proc. I would take any advice you have, but I see no advice here.

I don't like the way it feels when tellmewhen is loaded to show killing machine and rime procs. No amount of slander and chest pounding will change that. It could be that I just don't like frost, but I do not think that is the case. I have found a niche to use the spec as I feel it works for me. In a world of min/max, my frost dk does not fit in. It is clearly proven that watching for KM and rime is better. I can't refute that point. Because I don't enjoy playing that way doesn't make me mediocre. It merely makes me sub optimal.

I am actually surprised to see such an immature response on Maintankadin.


Just a little heads up, if you don't like flowing with procs and adjusting your play to suit them, you don't like Frost.
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