[Priest] Disc

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[Priest] Disc

Postby daemonym » Tue May 04, 2010 2:24 pm

Leveling a priest currently and am at level 50. I had read the guides on EJ but they're fairly useless in the mean time as I'm not 80. I was wondering though what the general play style of disc is. I hear their primary role is raid healing but I had always thought holy was the raid heal spec. Any list of general priorities and spell ques would be very helpful. Also should I be looking for gear with spirit to help with mana regen, gem the shit out of int like a holy pally, or focus on mp5 pieces?

For addons, I'm currently lul healing random dungeons with grind/clique and it's 90% power shield and go afk, that normal? What addons do you recommend? If you use clique is there a way to basically disable it while out of combat? I have binds set to the priest buffs in the OOC profile, but my normal heal spells still cast when I hit their button on a unit frame, very annoying when trying to click a frame just to target them.
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Re: [Priest] Disc

Postby Amirya » Tue May 04, 2010 5:29 pm

Holy priests are raid heals. Disc priests can raid heal, but are better suited for single target in most cases (I call my priest my "paladin in cloth").

Once you hit 60, Penance is your friend. Flash Heal is your friend. I generally don't bother with spirit for mana regen, Rapture should cover that for you.

I'd add more, but I'm at work and can't see Fayeth.
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Re: [Priest] Disc

Postby Korola » Tue May 04, 2010 6:22 pm

As a disc priest, you prevent damage and add mitigation. It is entirely normal to /bubble, /bubble, /bubble, /bubble, /bubble, /yawn. I always have a shaman in the guild posting his HPS numbers and that they are higher than mine. You will need a certain immunity to meters if you are to play disc. We don't excel at being the greatest AoE healers, we excel at preventing damage. Those that understand disc, know this. It is a combination defensive and reactive healing. It is a very mobile healing spec, and is one of my favorite to play. Penance hits on the first tick instantly and the folowing two ticks aren't far behind. Flash heal doesn't have the HPS that greater heal has, but makes up for it in mobility. Prayer of Mending and Prayer of Healing are great raid utilities that fill heals in nicely for multiple targets. I use xperl raid frames and a nostromo n52 game pad for raid healing. This and a 5 button mouse are fast enough for me. I agree with Amirya here, a paladin in cloth is an excellent description here. Int and SP are your $$ at early levels, then you can go to EJ for the latest and greatest testing at level 80.
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Re: [Priest] Disc

Postby daemonym » Tue May 04, 2010 6:29 pm

Thanks for the info, give me a much clearer picture of what I should be doing. One other question though is abotu Borrowed Time. Should I let this buff come naturally through my general shield spam or should I try and keep it up at all times? If a target needs a big heal should I pop a shield on them (barring weakened soul) for the haste buff and minor glyph'd heal and hit them with pennance or G heal? Or is it just more effective to cast a G heal right away and not bother with the shield.
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Re: [Priest] Disc

Postby Amirya » Tue May 04, 2010 7:39 pm

Now that I'm home

To be quite honest, I rarely use Greater Heal in fights, but I do use it after wipes/boss kills as needed. At this moment, with the gear I still need to replace, I have 10% haste. My Greater Heal currently takes over 2 seconds to cast, while my Flash Heal is under 1.5 seconds. My Flash Heals that I just did were for 4131 and 4377. My Greater Heal was for 8747. It's not worth it. Penance, however, is your friend. 3100, 3169, and crit hit for 5024.

As Korola said, though, disc is about preventing damage. Renewed Hope is the disc version of Sanctuary, but it's raid wide. Your bubbles will be stronger than Holy. I have PW:S glyphed for healing, it's nice.

So I try and keep a shield up on the target every time Weakened Soul wears off. Penance if they need big heals, Flash of Light to top off, PoM or Renew in all other cases.

And looking at Fayeth, I need to fix her a bit :lol:
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Re: [Priest] Disc

Postby daemonym » Wed May 05, 2010 12:56 am

Well I just healed the hakkar fight in sunken temple using the advice here. It was really mostly just spam shield when adds popped up, toss a renew on the tank when I had to move, scream them off any zealous dps, flash heal for maintainence and drop a G heal when the boss came alive. Lather rinse repeat. Ended the fight with 60% mana and a shiny blue head piece. I think I'm going to like this whole healy shieldy priesty thing...
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Re: [Priest] Disc

Postby sherck » Wed May 05, 2010 4:34 am

Well, my two cents.

I leveled my Pries as Disc spec. 7 pts in Shadow for Imp Mana Tap and +10% damage to Shadow spells. Like 13(?) points in Holy for +5% crit and something else and then +10% damage to Holy spells and then the rest in Disc.

PW:S will be your most cast spell by a large margin at lower levels followed by Flash Heal and Renew. I wanded A LOT when healing instances because I had a lot of down time between healing and did not want to use mana to DPS.

At max level, you are throwing out Prayer of Mending always; PW:S always, Pennance on is your big single person heal, Flash Heal is your go to "standard" heal, Prayer of Healing if you need to stabalize a lot of people quickly and Greater Heal/Renew rarely as you will probably skip the talents that improve them.

You can tank heal very effectively as a Disc Priest with Pennance, PW:S Flash Heal, PoM and Greater Heal if you are behind (althouth I typically just do FH spam until Pennance is off CD again rather than do a GH). You can also do raid healing effectively with a combination of PW:S, PoM, FH and PoH.

Disc priests stack Intellect, Haste and SP while Holy stack Int, Spirit, Haste and SP. I agree that as Disc, I rarely took a piece with Spirit on it unless it was a large upgrade otherwise. Your mana returns come from Replenishment and Renewed Hope? (mana return on PW:S popping) a ton. Obviously, that will change in Cata.

I like Disc a lot as a spec and look forward to seeing what PW: Barrier is like in Cata. I also like the look of the Chakka ability for Holy Priests so I am somewha split as what I will end up being in Cata when I get around to leveling him (he will be my 3rd toon leveled).

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Re: [Priest] Disc

Postby hoho » Wed May 05, 2010 5:13 am

I recently (started ~2 months ago, finished ~3 weeks ago) leveled a priest alt. It was holy DPS with spirit tap up early 60's and disc after that. After getting disc spec I also got shadow for soloing. IIRC at the moment I respecced I had this kind of holy spec:
http://www.wowhead.com/talent#bZfxx0cbqizheuZh:mu
sherck wrote:I leveled my Pries as Disc spec. 7 pts in Shadow for Imp Mana Tap and +10% damage to Shadow spells. Like 13(?) points in Holy for +5% crit and something else and then +10% damage to Holy spells and then the rest in Disc.
imp. ST is useless for leveling as it only procs off from mind blast, flay and SWD crits, two of what you'll get at high levels and none of what you'll be using in your spec. 10% boost to shadow spells pretty much means boosting only MB + SWP. First one is worse than smite (less damage, more mana) and mobs generally die before SWP has ticked it's full duration. Also even when having both up 100% of the time they make a tiny part of your overall damage.

TL:DR
3/3 spirit tap for 100% spirit and 83% regen bonus after getting killing blow is all you should ever put in shadow tree if you don't intend to level as (mostly) shadow. Everything else is wasted.
sherck wrote:PW:S will be your most cast spell by a large margin at lower levels followed by Flash Heal and Renew.
Using drdamage to show me HPM values for spells I found that as holy PW:S was actually very inefficient spell. It will be better once you get your first decent shield talents (imp. PWS around L25-28) but even then it's just about equal to renew. If you had gone holy instead and got imp. renew talents from the very first tier then renew would offer better HPM than shield, though with the potential of overhealing more. With planned casting that can be minimized though, especially below Outland-level dungeons where you can safely keep the tank around 50% hp throughout most the run. Also having renew ticking on a tank will likely mean you'll be dropping out of 5sr to regen quite often. If you learn to steal killing blows for ST proc you won't be missing not having meditation at all. Also, in aoe scenarios holy nova can be better to get ST proc. In instances where mobs put down totems wand them, they have 1hp and will proc ST on "death".

At low levels often heal/lesser heal had better HPM than other heals, though that greatly varied with your spellpower and level. Sometimes one was better than the other.
sherck wrote:I wanded A LOT when healing instances because I had a lot of down time between healing and did not want to use mana to DPS.
Wanding is nice but you'll rarely get killing blows for spirit tap that way. I found holy fire much better for it. It costs less mana than smite while hitting harder and faster.

sherck wrote:At max level, you are throwing out Prayer of Mending always; PW:S always, Pennance on is your big single person heal, Flash Heal is your go to "standard" heal, Prayer of Healing if you need to stabalize a lot of people quickly and Greater Heal/Renew rarely as you will probably skip the talents that improve them.
I agree with most of this but actually renew isn't all that bad. It's about as good as non-crit fheal for both throughput and mana usage so it helps quite nicely if you use it on heavy-damage scenarios to help keeping tank stable.
sherck wrote:Disc priests stack Intellect, Haste and SP while Holy stack Int, Spirit, Haste and SP
Depends on your "job". If you are the bubble-dispenser then you barely need any haste, around 300-ish will put you at GCD cap with borrowed time. Though for tank healing it's kind of nice to have more. Around 900-ish is is enough to put you at GCD cap without borrowed time IIRC.


For soloing shadow becomes vastly better than either disc or holy at L50 when you get vampiric touch. I'd dare to say once you get dispersion shadow is on-par with other specs in healing aswell. I was easily healing in most Northerend 5-man normals in full shadow spec/gear, even in quite a few L80 instances.



This kind of came out as anti-disc even though I love that spec :D
I know disc is awesome but I'd say it's sub-optimal at lower levels. Once you get deeper to disc it starts to outperform holy for 5-mans but big boost will be once you get penance. At 80 I prefer disc for 5-mans and raids where you aren't supposed to heal through aura damage as disc sucks pretty badly without having someone else helping with that, you can thank having grace in that but also general suckyness in scaling. Bubble-spam is mind numbingly boring but extremely overpowered though.
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Re: [Priest] Disc

Postby Korola » Wed May 05, 2010 6:44 am

If you learn to steal killing blows for ST proc you won't be missing not having meditation at all. Also, in aoe scenarios holy nova can be better to get ST proc. In instances where mobs put down totems wand them, they have 1hp and will proc ST on "death".


This is a great tip. I always just took meditation and didn't have to worry about casting a very expensive holy nova to steal a ST proc.

Using drdamage to show me HPM values for spells I found that as holy PW:S was actually very inefficient spell. It will be better once you get your first decent shield talents (imp. PWS around L25-28) but even then it's just about equal to renew. If you had gone holy instead and got imp. renew talents from the very first tier then renew would offer better HPM than shield, though with the potential of overhealing more. With planned casting that can be minimized though, especially below Outland-level dungeons where you can safely keep the tank around 50% hp throughout most the run. Also having renew ticking on a tank will likely mean you'll be dropping out of 5sr to regen quite often.


I would agree with this statement, IF by going in the disc tree you couldn't cast renew. I find a PW:S + renew to be very nice on a dps taking aoe damage. Both are instant cast on the run spells. You can make either spell work to your advantage. You can make both work to your advantage as well. With a PW:S and a renew, you can easily get to the 5SR as well. But you won't need it as much with meditation. :wink:

At 80 I prefer disc for 5-mans and raids where you aren't supposed to heal through aura damage as disc sucks pretty badly without having someone else helping with that, you can thank having grace in that but also general suckyness in scaling. Bubble-spam is mind numbingly boring but extremely overpowered though.


I would have to agree with you here. It can be done but...I find that healing through AoE damage to be the most frustrating part with a disc priest. On my shaman it is awesome when everyone is taking damage. Riptide and Chain Heal makes me :D . If I have to move though.....
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Re: [Priest] Disc

Postby daemonym » Wed May 05, 2010 4:21 pm

As far as renew vs power shield goes, I still like power shield even with both untalented, mostly because of the duration. Shield lasts 30 seconds and renew is 12. You'll completely negate a trash pack at low levels with shield and renew will be largely wasted or require a second one. Right now I'm trying to figure out what mouse binds feel more natural to me when using clique (5 button mouse) since I like only having to push 1 button to heal instead of two. I'm completely in love with grid as it tells me exactly what I need and takes up liek zero space, the same thing goes for decursive and the "muffs" it gives. A bunch of small boxes that show an icon of something you can (right) click on to cure it.
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Re: [Priest] Disc

Postby Amirya » Wed May 05, 2010 4:33 pm

Well, I did the respec, I have both Imp PWS and Imp Renew. Those are easy enough to toss on dps or even yourself, as noted previously. Granted, you don't have PoM or Penance yet, but here's what I usually do:

PWS everyone
Renew everyone
PoM tank
Flash Heal tank as needed
Penance for that oh hell moment
Pray you don't get an OH HELL moment
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Re: [Priest] Disc

Postby hoho » Thu May 06, 2010 12:22 am

daemonym wrote:As far as renew vs power shield goes, I still like power shield even with both untalented, mostly because of the duration. Shield lasts 30 seconds and renew is 12
Actually it's 15s, glyphing it is pretty bad thing to do at lower levels. Though I agree about the completely negating damage bit :)
Amirya wrote:PWS everyone
Renew everyone
Why? It's very rare that everyone are taking constant damage and until PWS holds all those renews are going to waste.

I generally just PWS+pom the tank, others get shielded/healed when they are dropping <50% or are in danger of taking heavy damage. As long as nothing too dangerous is around random pom pounces and occasional random passive heals generally heal them up. Usually when 3+ people are hurt for enough that PoH won't overheal them (much) I use that instead of multiple fheals/renews.
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Re: [Priest] Disc

Postby Amirya » Thu May 06, 2010 11:30 am

hoho wrote:
Amirya wrote:PWS everyone
Renew everyone
Why? It's very rare that everyone are taking constant damage and until PWS holds all those renews are going to waste.

I generally just PWS+pom the tank, others get shielded/healed when they are dropping <50% or are in danger of taking heavy damage. As long as nothing too dangerous is around random pom pounces and occasional random passive heals generally heal them up. Usually when 3+ people are hurt for enough that PoH won't overheal them (much) I use that instead of multiple fheals/renews.

It's a bad habit of mine, unfortunately. Mostly from running with idiots that I can't trust to reliably move out of fire/void zone/other bad stuff.
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Re: [Priest] Disc

Postby Korola » Thu May 06, 2010 11:41 am

It's a bad habit of mine, unfortunately. Mostly from running with idiots that I can't trust to reliably move out of fire/void zone/other bad stuff.


^This

I have had to implement play styles and button set ups for certain people I play with. Everyone plays the game different and I can usually pull stuff out, but it generally means I waste a lot of resources that would be unnecessary otherwise.

As far as renew vs power shield goes, I still like power shield even with both untalented, mostly because of the duration. Shield lasts 30 seconds and renew is 12. You'll completely negate a trash pack at low levels with shield and renew will be largely wasted or require a second one. Right now I'm trying to figure out what mouse binds feel more natural to me when using clique (5 button mouse) since I like only having to push 1 button to heal instead of two. I'm completely in love with grid as it tells me exactly what I need and takes up liek zero space, the same thing goes for decursive and the "muffs" it gives. A bunch of small boxes that show an icon of something you can (right) click on to cure it.


It sounds like you've got the feel for it. :wink:
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Re: [Priest] Disc

Postby Gracerath » Fri May 07, 2010 1:03 am

I actually leveled entirely as disc on my priest and almost exclusively through the LFD tool. I didn't set foot out of IF from level 23 all the way to level 68, which I took myself to Dalaran and set up my hearth stone.

PW:S is really quite amazing when all talented. My experiences were similar to Sherck's but I didn't take any non-healing talents since I was only healing dungeons and not questing ever (I did eventually pick up a shadow off spec and ran a few dungeons as shadow though). PW:S the group -> wand -> move on to next pack of mobs.

I always keep a PW:S up but I don't toss a renew on anyone other than the tank unless its to top someone off who has taken some damage and wont be taking any more and I'm moving. I wanted to keep the weakened soul debuff up as often as possible to get the extra crit from talents while someone is affected with it.

I still got a lot of learning to do though. I'm actually holy spec now for my heroic grind. The raid I play with has an established and high attendence disc priest so to help fill in if needed I said I'd go holy. Its fun but some places are fairly difficult to heal. What seems weird is I have an easier time healing heroic ICC 5's (FoS and PoS) than I do heroic ToC 5. I have such a hard time keeping up with the damage on the 3rd phase of the black knight. Of course it depends on the group. In a high dps group where he dies in 10 seconds its not so bad. In lower dps groups where that debuff stacks up high, its just a pain in the ass.
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