Help with my mage (arcane/fire)

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Help with my mage (arcane/fire)

Postby Dianora » Mon May 03, 2010 9:51 am

This is my mage Nodame. Her gear is not to shabby, but that's her armory set, which is what I used to wear going into raid. However, going by the AB until MB and casting MB ASAP have resulted in shockingly poor DPS.

Last night, I switch in a Haste set in ToTC25 where I loose about 200 spell power but my haste went from 677 to 1050, and my dps went from 5000 in ICC10 to about 7500 in TOTC25 (still low, but improving). I also held off on casting MB until 4 stacks of AB (or close to it). My Haste set does include 2 piece T10.25 bonus.

So should I re-gem my armory set to Reckless (Haste/Spellpower) whenever possible and use the ABx4 -> MB?
Last edited by Dianora on Fri May 07, 2010 2:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Help with my mage (arcane/fire)

Postby Palmela » Mon May 03, 2010 11:38 pm

You're pulling 500 dps in that gear? If that is the case your doing something really wrong, pop cds when theyre up. Personally if I have to be arcane i blow everything at the start, then AP when its up then wait for everything to be back up again and keep them together. You should work on getting 4pc, exclude the legs for arcane as they are the weakest piece, leggings of woven death being the stronger item here. I highly doubt gemming red slots with reckless gems is gonna give you more dps than pure runed cards.

http://www.magegraf.com

I dont really know how accurate it is, some folks at EJ recommend it, the number of your dps isnt entirely accurate but I find the stat weights to work out fairly well. For instance, all your sp/spi gems, once you lose 2pc T9 spirit becomes less and less valuable and besides meeting your meta usually a runed card>sp/spi. Your gear looks good, rotation, well i dont know how you can mess up the arcane rotation, use cooldowns as often as possible. Even with all the haste you lose 4pc t10 is worth it, 3% static dmg increase over the course of a fight assuming your using MI off cd as often as possible.
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Re: Help with my mage (arcane/fire)

Postby Dianora » Tue May 04, 2010 10:04 am

Ok, i'm currently wearing my haste set. And I do have 5 Tier 10 (Sanctified Shoulder and pants) for 4 piece bonus if needed. Should I build Leggings of Wolven Death and use the other iLevel 251 Tier 10 pieces?
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Re: Help with my mage (arcane/fire)

Postby Palmela » Tue May 04, 2010 10:40 am

Crafted pants are damn near BiS for arcane outside of 1 piece from HMs, I think. For fire I believe the gloves are replaced with a HM piece, but all in all yes replacing your offset gear with 4pc will net you more dps than using the non tier set pieces. I saw you already regemmed everything to full reckless gems, but if your planning on swtiching between fire and arcane id recommend red slots being runed as stat weights for haste decrease a lot switching from arc to fire. Not that haste is bad it just is a stronger stat as arcane than fire where at certain gear levels crit can be equal to haste and spellpower trumping both.
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Re: Help with my mage (arcane/fire)

Postby Dianora » Tue May 04, 2010 10:57 am

Palmela wrote:Crafted pants are damn near BiS for arcane outside of 1 piece from HMs, I think. For fire I believe the gloves are replaced with a HM piece, but all in all yes replacing your offset gear with 4pc will net you more dps than using the non tier set pieces. I saw you already regemmed everything to full reckless gems, but if your planning on swtiching between fire and arcane id recommend red slots being runed as stat weights for haste decrease a lot switching from arc to fire. Not that haste is bad it just is a stronger stat as arcane than fire where at certain gear levels crit can be equal to haste and spellpower trumping both.


I mainly raid as Arcane. Fire is just when I'm bored and running daily heroic for emblems. So off I goes to buy saroite and get some crafters.
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Re: Help with my mage (arcane/fire)

Postby bashef » Thu May 06, 2010 10:58 am

Can you please clarify that you mean 500 and 750 dps rather than 5k and 7k (i.e. that you're not missing zeroes?)

To put it in perspective, if you're really doing 500dps in ICC you're at around 3-5% theoretical dps (off by a factor of at least twenty). The only thing I can imagine that could possibly cause this is using rank one of every ability.

If it's 5k > 7.5k and you're unsatisfied shout and I'll go through the armoury and such to help. If it's 500dps and you're using max rank spells then I have no clue, and I can guarantee that small gear changes or regemming won't fix this. Something is deeply, fundamentally wrong and we need more details (a parse would be great).
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Re: Help with my mage (arcane/fire)

Postby Dianora » Fri May 07, 2010 12:30 pm

yeah, that's 5k and 7k dps. Just went and got the tier 10 crafted pants made. Now my tier 10 setis at a fairly decent 1113 haste rating, and my spell damage does take a hit at 2956. I still have too much hit, but it's not like I'm going out of my way to gear it.
Last edited by Dianora on Fri May 07, 2010 2:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Help with my mage (arcane/fire)

Postby Cronus » Fri May 07, 2010 1:02 pm

For arcane spec, you need to spam AB x4 and then AM once it procs. Dont hit AM before you get 4 stacks of the debuff. I have sat spaming AB 6, 7, 8 times before i got an AM proc. DONT hit AM once it procs before you get 4 stacks of the debuff. Exceptions to the rule are during heroics when stuff dies so fast...i am lucky to get 3 stacks and then I tab target hit AM. Doing this should increase your DPS. Also hit arcane power once you get AM proc plus any trinkets so it hits hard. Use arcane power when ever its off cooldown...its only a min cd.
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Re: Help with my mage (arcane/fire)

Postby Gracerath » Sat May 08, 2010 12:29 am

I'm not sure I agree with getting up to 4 stacks before using missile barrage procs with the 2T10, I usually go up to 3, sometimes I use it right away. Its situational depending on the fight, how long you anticipate its going to last, what phase you're in, etc. Its also a good way to run yourself out of mana especially while under the effects of arcane power. Thats one of the fun things with arcane is managing mana. If you can be as close to 0% mana as the boss dies, you've done a decent job.

The key is to always be casting something. If you have to move, don't forget Arcane Barrage, fire blast and ice lance.

AB in heroics = silly most of the time. AE that shit, yo. Anything more than 2 mobs, let your tank get off their AE threat stuff and just start using PoM/Flamestrike and Blizzard.

Something that I did that really improved my dps was made my Arcane power / icy veins timers very obvious and hit them essentially on cooldown. Its best to time them with things like heroism but remember its better to use a cooldown twice in a fight than just once with heroism. 4T10 is lolfuntimes in heroics. Nothing like doing threat free 12-16k dps for 30 seconds for every single boss.
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Re: Help with my mage (arcane/fire)

Postby bashef » Mon May 10, 2010 6:02 am

OK, so getting back to this.

Firstly, your gemming strategy is a bit off. Simple rule of thumb for matching sockets: red, +23sp; yellow, 12sp/10haste; blue 12sp/10 spirit. If you're going to ignore sockets (which is often worthwhile) it should only ever be to gem straight spellpower. Prismatic sockets should also be 23sp. Use something like RAWR to verify: a very coarse rule of thumb would be to match a socket if you get at least 5sp per non-red gem. In typical gear, one point of haste is worth 0.7-0.8sp, but as your spellpower increases for fixed haste the value of haste increases. Spirit is largely crap.

You sort of acknowledged this, but it bears repeating. You currently have an ungodly amount of hit - fully raid buffed, you're an astonishing 8.2% over cap. Drop hit from somewhere as a matter of urgency, that's massively wasted itemisation. As an intermediate measure, move points from arcane focus into student of the mind - the extra spirit should somewhat counterbalance the increased mana cost, and also gives you crit.

The badge int trinket is better than the haste one you're using. The on use is worth 100sp if used on cooldown, the static int is worth another 20 (plus crit) and with all that extra mana you can spam AB more/evocate less often.

Which brings me on to rotation - yes, the 2t10 bonus is good, but you're still better using AB at least four times, and if you have mana til you get an Mbarr proc. Arcane does the whole mana > damage thing very well (meaning you can afford to fish for Mbarr procs beyond the AB 4 stack if you have mana/evo/gem available). Learning to manage your mana and timing cooldowns with periods where you have mana available to exploit them, will benefit you a lot.

The rest is much more generic dps stuff. Know the fights and where the periods that you can do lots of damage are so you can synch your cooldowns around them. Know when hero is coming. Don't stop casting, ever - if you're unsure what to do, don't just stand there, mash your nuke button. Save PoM for when you have to move to keep an AB stack alive. Abarr while moving unless it resets an advantageous AB stack. Ice lance/fire blast. Find a mod that keeps track of your personal cooldowns, trinkets, and especially trinket ICDs so you can time everything together. It's usually the case that people in similar gear levels have similar target-dummy dps, but there's a massive variation in boss damage and it's because the best players know the fights inside out, know what's going to happen before it does and are anticipating everything, get far more casts off (less time standing doing nothing or waiting for something) etc etc. It really does all add up.
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Re: Help with my mage (arcane/fire)

Postby gtechman » Mon May 10, 2010 8:08 am

Gracerath wrote:I'm not sure I agree with getting up to 4 stacks before using missile barrage procs with the 2T10, I usually go up to 3, sometimes I use it right away.


I believe with as much haste as he has, he can keep the 2T10 haste buff for a full 4 stacks.
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Re: Help with my mage (arcane/fire)

Postby Dianora » Mon May 10, 2010 1:55 pm

bashef wrote:Firstly, your gemming strategy is a bit off. Simple rule of thumb for matching sockets: red, +23sp; yellow, 12sp/10haste; blue 12sp/10 spirit. If you're going to ignore sockets (which is often worthwhile) it should only ever be to gem straight spellpower. Prismatic sockets should also be 23sp. Use something like RAWR to verify: a very coarse rule of thumb would be to match a socket if you get at least 5sp per non-red gem. In typical gear, one point of haste is worth 0.7-0.8sp, but as your spellpower increases for fixed haste the value of haste increases. Spirit is largely crap.

You sort of acknowledged this, but it bears repeating. You currently have an ungodly amount of hit - fully raid buffed, you're an astonishing 8.2% over cap. Drop hit from somewhere as a matter of urgency, that's massively wasted itemisation. As an intermediate measure, move points from arcane focus into student of the mind - the extra spirit should somewhat counterbalance the increased mana cost, and also gives you crit.

The badge int trinket is better than the haste one you're using. The on use is worth 100sp if used on cooldown, the static int is worth another 20 (plus crit) and with all that extra mana you can spam AB more/evocate less often.

Which brings me on to rotation - yes, the 2t10 bonus is good, but you're still better using AB at least four times, and if you have mana til you get an Mbarr proc. Arcane does the whole mana > damage thing very well (meaning you can afford to fish for Mbarr procs beyond the AB 4 stack if you have mana/evo/gem available). Learning to manage your mana and timing cooldowns with periods where you have mana available to exploit them, will benefit you a lot.

The rest is much more generic dps stuff. Know the fights and where the periods that you can do lots of damage are so you can synch your cooldowns around them. Know when hero is coming. Don't stop casting, ever - if you're unsure what to do, don't just stand there, mash your nuke button. Save PoM for when you have to move to keep an AB stack alive. Abarr while moving unless it resets an advantageous AB stack. Ice lance/fire blast. Find a mod that keeps track of your personal cooldowns, trinkets, and especially trinket ICDs so you can time everything together. It's usually the case that people in similar gear levels have similar target-dummy dps, but there's a massive variation in boss damage and it's because the best players know the fights inside out, know what's going to happen before it does and are anticipating everything, get far more casts off (less time standing doing nothing or waiting for something) etc etc. It really does all add up.


I know my hit is way too high for a Draenei arcane mage. Can't really be helped, as the gears came naturally with hit. I was using T9 badge trinket prior to switching back to ToC5 haste trinket. Of course, back then, my haste was at 713. It's now 1113. As for gemming, that was done with a prior version of RAWR. I can try again.
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