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[Ret-PVE] Value of t9 2p

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[Ret-PVE] Value of t9 2p

Postby Arnock » Wed Apr 28, 2010 2:53 pm

'ello all


So outside of my weapon, my ret set is mostly a hodgepodge of unneeded offspec gear thrown together throughout my wrath raiding career, and I've gotten a few items out of an icc10 run that I'm wondering about the value of.


As you can see in my armory, I'm using the 232 t9 shoulders and pants, and last night in icc I got battle maiden's legguards
http://www.wowhead.com/item=51025
they are a significan't upgrade over my current pants, but I'm not sure whether or not it's worth losing the t9 2piece bonus.

So, at what level does the straight ilvl upgrade of an item out-do righteous vengeance critting?

one piece of 251 gear? 2 pieces? should I only replace it to get t10 2piece bonus?
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Re: [Ret-PVE] Value of t9 2p

Postby Gamingdevil » Thu Apr 29, 2010 12:56 am

Arnock wrote:one piece of 251 gear? 2 pieces? should I only replace it to get t10 2piece bonus?


I would say the only thing worth losing 2-piece T9 for is 4-piece T10 (since you can get 2-piece in other slots), but the iLevel upgrade is significant, so I'm not sure.
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Re: [Ret-PVE] Value of t9 2p

Postby Shamora » Thu Apr 29, 2010 2:18 pm

Best way to tell for sure is to use RAWR and see if switching that piece is an upgrade or not.
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Re: [Ret-PVE] Value of t9 2p

Postby Vorianloken » Fri Apr 30, 2010 12:35 am

Shamora wrote:Best way to tell for sure is to use RAWR and see if switching that piece is an upgrade or not.


Second that. I like how RAWR can change the values of tier pieces depending on how many you have and stuff :P Helped me make a very touhh decision for my unholy dk hehe
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Re: [Ret-PVE] Value of t9 2p

Postby Kelaan » Fri Apr 30, 2010 9:19 am

I don't get it, though. I look at my righteous vengeance's percent of damage done on a boss fight, and then look at the fraction gained by that critting, and it seems miniscule. Like, 1 to 1.5 percent of my overall damage. I guess that the stat upgrades from 232 to 251 are not enough to give similar damage?
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Re: [Ret-PVE] Value of t9 2p

Postby Gamingdevil » Fri Apr 30, 2010 10:44 am

Kelaan wrote:I don't get it, though. I look at my righteous vengeance's percent of damage done on a boss fight, and then look at the fraction gained by that critting, and it seems miniscule. Like, 1 to 1.5 percent of my overall damage. I guess that the stat upgrades from 232 to 251 are not enough to give similar damage?


1.5% damage increase isn't exactly miniscule is it?
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Re: [Ret-PVE] Value of t9 2p

Postby Kelaan » Tue May 04, 2010 2:36 pm

Gamingdevil wrote:1.5% damage increase isn't exactly miniscule is it?

While I agree that it's about the same amount as what we'd spend a talent point on (more, in fact!), it's relatively insignificant. I'm not even sure 1% is a good estimate -- I eyeballed Recount one day, looked at my Righteous Vengeance, and said, "40% extra of a small percent of my damage is a small number!".
Looking at my parse:
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/51cc ... 014&e=1211

RV did ~5.7% of my damage (counting crit'ed ticks), or 84k damage.
Ticks: 50 ticks @ 887 average = 44382 damage
crits: 19 crits @ 2093 average = 39779 damage.
If the crits had not critted (no 2x T9), those 19 ticks would have done 16865 damage. So, 2x T9 gave me 22914 damage, or 116.3 DPS, which is ~1.56% of my total DPS.

Cool. I'd not looked that closely at the effect before; it does indeed seem somewhat significant. By comparison, the 4x bonus for T10 is 10% more seal/judgement damage, so I'd gain ~3.4% damage -- a straight 2% damage upgrade over 2x T9. Cool. I guess I'll just save badges even longer. (:
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Re: [Ret-PVE] Value of t9 2p

Postby Donahu » Fri May 07, 2010 1:02 pm

I'm at a loss on rawr. It completely confuses me :P.

I load my gear in and I can see how you can use it to upgrade individual pieces but I don't know how to make it adjust for 2pc, etc.

For an idea of the gear swap in question -

I have 2 pc T10 ret. 264 legs and 251 shoulders.

I don't have any T9 245. I do have enough badges for full T9 232 if I want.

I have 264 plate bp off Marrowgar (grossly over hit cap so using 251 plate bp off saurfang).
I have 232 Onyxia hat currently.
I have 251 gloves off Festergut (hella hit and exp).

Ideally, I would like to get the 245 T9 hat and gloves but I have terrible pug luck so 232 is the option I have atm.

The question is, should I bother with getting T9 232 and downgrade what would be 264 bp and 251 gloves? I don't know and can't find the models of rawr to figure out if it's worth the stat loss for the set bonus gain >.<.

I would post a link to armory but I am NEVER logged out in ret gear so that doesn't help at all (I am main spec prot, just enjoy ret dps in pugs).
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Re: [Ret-PVE] Value of t9 2p

Postby Selgar » Mon May 10, 2010 8:58 am

Donahu wrote:I'm at a loss on rawr. It completely confuses me :P.

I load my gear in and I can see how you can use it to upgrade individual pieces but I don't know how to make it adjust for 2pc, etc.

For an idea of the gear swap in question -

I have 2 pc T10 ret. 264 legs and 251 shoulders.

I don't have any T9 245. I do have enough badges for full T9 232 if I want.

I have 264 plate bp off Marrowgar (grossly over hit cap so using 251 plate bp off saurfang).
I have 232 Onyxia hat currently.
I have 251 gloves off Festergut (hella hit and exp).

Ideally, I would like to get the 245 T9 hat and gloves but I have terrible pug luck so 232 is the option I have atm.

The question is, should I bother with getting T9 232 and downgrade what would be 264 bp and 251 gloves? I don't know and can't find the models of rawr to figure out if it's worth the stat loss for the set bonus gain >.<.

I would post a link to armory but I am NEVER logged out in ret gear so that doesn't help at all (I am main spec prot, just enjoy ret dps in pugs).



The loss of DPS from downgrading 264/251 to 232 FAR FAR outweighs the benefit you would get from 2pc T9. If you are a weekend ret player just pick up ret pieces as you get them and dont worry so much about it.
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Re: [Ret-PVE] Value of t9 2p

Postby Kelaan » Mon May 10, 2010 3:23 pm

Selgar wrote:The loss of DPS from downgrading 264/251 to 232 FAR FAR outweighs the benefit you would get from 2pc T9. If you are a weekend ret player just pick up ret pieces as you get them and dont worry so much about it.

Rawr would seem to disagree, or at least it does for me. Two Non-tier 251 pieces yield (in Rawr's sim) ~80-100 less DPS for my character than 2x T9 (ilevel 232). Wearing T9.245s makes it much more competitive. For me, at least, it looks like (4x T10) > (2x T10, 2x T9) > (2x T10, offset 251/264 pieces).

I'd have to double check in other ret DPS spreadsheets to be sure, but the difference is substantial in Rawr.
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Re: [Ret-PVE] Value of t9 2p

Postby Selgar » Tue Jun 15, 2010 4:39 pm

Kelaan wrote:
Selgar wrote:The loss of DPS from downgrading 264/251 to 232 FAR FAR outweighs the benefit you would get from 2pc T9. If you are a weekend ret player just pick up ret pieces as you get them and dont worry so much about it.

Rawr would seem to disagree, or at least it does for me. Two Non-tier 251 pieces yield (in Rawr's sim) ~80-100 less DPS for my character than 2x T9 (ilevel 232). Wearing T9.245s makes it much more competitive. For me, at least, it looks like (4x T10) > (2x T10, 2x T9) > (2x T10, offset 251/264 pieces).

I'd have to double check in other ret DPS spreadsheets to be sure, but the difference is substantial in Rawr.


RAWR shows a 10% dps loss by switching out the 251 BP and 251 hands for T9 232's which is what I got from reading

I have 264 plate bp off Marrowgar (grossly over hit cap so using 251 plate bp off saurfang).
I have 232 Onyxia hat currently.
I have 251 gloves off Festergut (hella hit and exp).

Ideally, I would like to get the 245 T9 hat and gloves but I have terrible pug luck so 232 is the option I have atm.

The question is, should I bother with getting T9 232 and downgrade what would be 264 bp and 251 gloves? I don't know and can't find the models of rawr to figure out if it's worth the stat loss for the set bonus gain >.<.


I reiterate what I said before if you are a weekend ret player dont worry about set bonuses and just get the highest ilvl stuff you can since you most likely arent optimizing everything optimizing one thing would have little effect.
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Re: [Ret-PVE] Value of t9 2p

Postby Dorvan » Wed Jun 16, 2010 1:12 pm

FYI, you can see the value of set bonuses in Rawr by selecting Buffs -> Set Bonuses from the slot menu. As a point of reference, in my (~5k gs) gear with full raid buffs 2pT9 is worth 210 dps. In my gear is looks like 2pT9 (232,head/legs) slightly beats out the best 2 non-set 251 pieces (7856 for offset, 7899 for 2pT9).

Offset pieces used were Battle-Maiden's Legguards and Deathspeaker Zealot's Helm

YMMV depending on your overall gear and which offset pieces you have.


As far as general instruction for Rawr, what you want is pretty simple. Just go through the gear lists and click the diamond next to the pieces you own. Make sure your spec and glyphs are correct on the talents tab. Then go to tools -> optimize, drag the throughness slider most of the way to the right (the further right it is, the more accurate but longer the optimization will be), then click optimize. Rawr will do some calculation for a few second to a few minutes, then tell you what works best with your current gear.
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Re: [Ret-PVE] Value of t9 2p

Postby Syrcla » Tue Jun 22, 2010 3:03 pm

I'm in a similar situation (ret OS and do it for fun atm). Thank you so much Dorvan. I recently installed RAWR and was fairly confused on what all I could do with it aside from loading my gear and seeing the lists per slot.

This will help out a lot! Thanks again!!
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