Icy touch bugy when using as a dd?

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Re: Icy touch bugy when using as a dd?

Postby blakk » Fri Apr 23, 2010 9:59 am

Flex wrote:
blakk wrote:that 8k includes movement when i'm not attacking whereas the 7k does not.


So you're not doing 7K TPS at 8K DPS.

Turns out our only rogue was being a tricks ninja >.>
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Re: Icy touch bugy when using as a dd?

Postby Levantine » Fri Apr 23, 2010 4:17 pm

fafhrd wrote:
Levantine wrote:Semantics aside, Frost DK's have some of the highest threat per damage done second to Hunters who can Feign it all away.


Arms warriors probably have it slightly worse actually, since they also have only a 20% passive threat mod, but have bonus % threat mods on execute and whirlwind.

I suppose I should disclaim that I haven't tested SD execute or bladestorm WW threat recently, but I did test fury WW threat last month, and it definitely still has a threat mod of around 125%.


To be fair, Arms Warriors also do like, zero dps. Frost on the other hand is competitive for the top DPS DK spec prize.
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Re: Icy touch bugy when using as a dd?

Postby fafhrd » Fri Apr 23, 2010 4:39 pm

Their threat gen though is high enough to need salves while simultaneously doing less dps than a fury warrior in the same raid who is fine on threat.

And good arms warriors do quite good dps - worse than the same warrior would do as fury, but better than probably 80% of people who play WoW.
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Re: Icy touch bugy when using as a dd?

Postby Joanadark » Fri Apr 23, 2010 5:14 pm

fafhrd wrote:Their threat gen though is high enough to need salves while simultaneously doing less dps than a fury warrior in the same raid who is fine on threat.

And good arms warriors do quite good dps - worse than the same warrior would do as fury, but better than probably 80% of people who play WoW.


This. Forlorn Legacy has a Warrior who played Arms exclusively until they started working on HLK who consistently was one of the top 3 or 4 DPS in the guild the entire time I was in it, as Arms. He's definitely one of the top 3 most skilled players I have ever met.
When he did a test comparison of Arms to Fury on Festergut once, I only remember it being a relatively small (500 DPS or so) difference between the specs.

Granted this is a very small sample size and is my only real exposure to Arms DPS, but it leads me to conclude that Arms isn't nearly as shit as everyone pretends it is, merely very difficult to master.
By comparison, Fury is retardedly easy, and lets you faceroll your way to high DPS.
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Re: Icy touch bugy when using as a dd?

Postby Levantine » Fri Apr 23, 2010 6:20 pm

Goddam you both. Let me be spec-ist in peace! D:<

Mebbe I can hate on BM Hunters or something.
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Re: Icy touch bugy when using as a dd?

Postby Flex » Fri Apr 23, 2010 8:09 pm

Levantine wrote:Goddam you both. Let me be spec-ist in peace! D:<

Mebbe I can hate on BM Hunters or something.


Sub Rogues and Frost Mages are still subpar. BM is competitive with Survival now.
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Re: Icy touch bugy when using as a dd?

Postby Dantriges » Sat Apr 24, 2010 2:54 am

Back on topic.

So I´ve watched it a little bit and saw him having burss of 11k tps in Omen during heroic Festergut. Could be that he got totted but not sure.
I´ve asked because he is sometimes prone to get himselves killed on single mob trash like the frost wyrm before the gunship and stuff like that and complained about it. Seems to me that the warrior/druid was low on rage and in the one case he pulled from me it was after a wipe and I was pretty oom.

So it seems to me it was a little problem of resource limited tank and a not so limited dps.

I am a little bit fed up with craptalk like that but not long enough in the guild to just tell him to shut up so I rather want to silence him with some facts.
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Re: Icy touch bugy when using as a dd?

Postby blakk » Sat Apr 24, 2010 8:56 am

RNG can cause threat bursts like that. Or a rogue using a ToT early but the threat should even out over an extended period of time. Frost can be a little bursty with early procs.
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Re: Icy touch bugy when using as a dd?

Postby Hokahey » Mon Apr 26, 2010 11:03 am

Dantriges wrote:Back on topic.

So I´ve watched it a little bit and saw him having burss of 11k tps in Omen during heroic Festergut. Could be that he got totted but not sure.
I´ve asked because he is sometimes prone to get himselves killed on single mob trash like the frost wyrm before the gunship and stuff like that and complained about it. Seems to me that the warrior/druid was low on rage and in the one case he pulled from me it was after a wipe and I was pretty oom.

So it seems to me it was a little problem of resource limited tank and a not so limited dps.

I am a little bit fed up with craptalk like that but not long enough in the guild to just tell him to shut up so I rather want to silence him with some facts.


So wait, who are you wanting to shut up and about what? The Frost DK that's pulling aggro?
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Re: Icy touch bugy when using as a dd?

Postby Dantriges » Tue Apr 27, 2010 5:35 am

Yes, I am the new guy and he tanks quite a bit if no other tanks are available, so I have to work with him and I can´t just Just shut up for f.... sake, you moron. Id rather prefer people on my side when my vote comes around instead of being Mr Yellatthetopofhislungs. So I prefer to have facts to get him to shut up and don´t embarass myself, by talking about something I don´t know.

Also I was bit surprised that he pulled aggro on single target from the warrior.
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Re: Icy touch bugy when using as a dd?

Postby blakk » Tue Apr 27, 2010 6:07 am

Make a log of your next raid and we can look and see exactly what's amiss.
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Re: Icy touch bugy when using as a dd?

Postby fafhrd » Tue Apr 27, 2010 8:34 am

Dantriges wrote:Yes, I am the new guy and he tanks quite a bit if no other tanks are available, so I have to work with him and I can´t just Just shut up for f.... sake, you moron. Id rather prefer people on my side when my vote comes around instead of being Mr Yellatthetopofhislungs. So I prefer to have facts to get him to shut up and don´t embarass myself, by talking about something I don´t know.

Also I was bit surprised that he pulled aggro on single target from the warrior.



I don't get it, are you mad at him for out-threating you as a DPS, or for complaining about his threat? You shouldn't be yelling either way, and he should be watching Omen and not pulling either way, but if he's doing the latter, he definitely has grounds to complain, assuming he has the 1 point in Subversion that appears to be fairly standard for frost DPS right now (every one of the top ranking frost DK DPS I checked at http://www.worldoflogs.com/rankings/pla ... th_Knight/ had it, although I didn't check them all). If he doesn't have that 1 point, and no one else in the raid has issues with your threat, tell him to STFU and go get it, other Frost DKs aren't raiding without it either. If he already has it, you need to learn to make more threat.
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Re: Icy touch bugy when using as a dd?

Postby blakk » Tue Apr 27, 2010 9:16 am

fafhrd wrote:
Dantriges wrote:Yes, I am the new guy and he tanks quite a bit if no other tanks are available, so I have to work with him and I can´t just Just shut up for f.... sake, you moron. Id rather prefer people on my side when my vote comes around instead of being Mr Yellatthetopofhislungs. So I prefer to have facts to get him to shut up and don´t embarass myself, by talking about something I don´t know.

Also I was bit surprised that he pulled aggro on single target from the warrior.



I don't get it, are you mad at him for out-threating you as a DPS, or for complaining about his threat? You shouldn't be yelling either way, and he should be watching Omen and not pulling either way, but if he's doing the latter, he definitely has grounds to complain, assuming he has the 1 point in Subversion that appears to be fairly standard for frost DPS right now (every one of the top ranking frost DK DPS I checked at http://www.worldoflogs.com/rankings/pla ... th_Knight/ had it, although I didn't check them all). If he doesn't have that 1 point, and no one else in the raid has issues with your threat, tell him to STFU and go get it, other Frost DKs aren't raiding without it either. If he already has it, you need to learn to make more threat.

I've swapped to that spec and I pull aggro 90% less now. Only LDW p2 gives any trouble now although I sometimes get the big whoosh that means "YOU'RE ABOUT TO DIE" on occasion early in a fight.
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