[Ret-PvE] FCFS Priority with Seal of Command

Ret, Holy, PVP, etc

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Re: [Ret-PvE] FCFS Priority with Seal of Command

Postby Baelor » Wed Apr 07, 2010 3:35 pm

At Zaulthar's request, I'll attempt to expound upon Joanadark's assertion regarding situational skill rotations.

-1 target that lasts a short time (an add to burn, like jeraxxus portal or blazing skeleton)

This is a situation in which you know the target won't be up for more than 10-20 seconds, making damage over time not as important as damage per move. You want to use your biggest, juiciest abilities on this sucker and just make it go away right now, not worrying about how you might not be able to deal nearly as much damage in 20 seconds from right now because of ability cooldowns. It also takes into consideration that you can't/won't have a 5-stack of SoV DoT's on your target making seal procs huge.

-1 target that lasts a long time (a boss)
This is the FCFS rotation that everyone keeps bringing up. If you don't know what this is, go read the first post of the EJ ret thread or my ret FAQ

-2 targets
-4 targets
-more than 4 targets that will take 20+ seconds to die
-more than 4 targets that will take <20 seconds to die

To be perfectly honest, I'm slipping in my "old age" and my inability to raid all of my guild's raid hours, so optimizing my multi-target rotations has been something I don't pay too much attention to. I just make sure to prioritize Divine Storm and Consecration when there's >2 targets (and Holy Wrath when they're undead). The preceding sentence is not optimal, do not take that as raiding gospel. The situations JD laid out all call for slightly different tweaks to the abilities you prioritize and seals you use.

That's the quick and dirty answer. If I had more time I'd give more, but unfortunately I'm writing this while I'm catching up on some work and waiting for my laptop to render stuff, so I'm not paying 100% attention. If I find some time later this week and JD or some other ret player hasn't filled this in with more detail, I'll try to do so.
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Re: [Ret-PvE] FCFS Priority with Seal of Command

Postby Joanadark » Tue Apr 13, 2010 3:26 pm

Everything boyfriend and Baelor have related is good, sound advice.

Burn Target
As Baelor related, this is mostly down to ranking your abilities from hardest-hitting to lowest, but there is a bit more to be said about that. In most raiding situations, burn targets are predictable. For example, a Jeraxxas portal appears on a set time interval exactly 45 degrees behind the boss's left shoulder. Valks on LK will obviously pick their targets up where the raid is standing and move in a predictable direction and are also on a set timer. This means that you shouldn't undervalue consecrate, even though it is bad short-term damage. It is still damage, and it can be placed early so that it is down and already ticking when a burn target spawns, or similarly place a consecrate down as the last gcd you use right before you reach melee range of a target so that the leading edge clips it.
In any situation where you need to move to a target you should have a very firm understanding of your abilities ranges and how close you need to be for them to hit or not hit a target and how your latency affects that. This is something that only experience will give, but which you can practice on target dummies at leisure. The first rule of DPS is that dead GCDs are bad GCDs, and using two abilities in the "wrong" order is pretty much always going to be better DPS than only using one. Players who are good at being flexible with their rotation on the fly will be significantly better at movement fights than those who aren't as fluid.
Don't forget that you can use Exo when moving-to-engage a different target and be out of melee range for a couple gcds or more. Particularly if the swap target is going to be a burn-target, don't "waste" exo into the boss right before you're going to need to be moving to attack, say, an orange gas cloud on Putricide.

RAWR and spreadsheets
As mentioned by others, the only way to get positive answers is to simply go into RAWR and play around with it yourself. Play around with fight length and targets #. Modify consecration effectiveness % and see how that changes things. Make sure you know in your head how many consecrate ticks it takes to make it more damage-per-gcd than each of your abilities.

SOC v 2 targets
One thing not mentioned regarding SoC is how good it makes Crusader Strike against 2 targets. Depending on your gear level, on 2 targets your highest priority should be maximizing the number of SoC seal hits you get as much as possible through crusader strike because the seal will bounce from your primary target to your secondary target, and then BACK to your primary target. This means that the damage-per-gcd of crusader strike is actually 147% of weapon damage on your primary target, with 36% of weapon damage worth of cleave on your secondary target. This puts CS at MORE damage than Divine Storm against your primary target, and your hardest hitting ability if you are fighting two targets at once, but trying to burn one down first (1% more damage to be technical, however it is composed of THREE parts that can independently crit, as opposed to only 2 for divine storm. This means that the more crit you have, the better CS is than DS in this situation).
By comparison, Divine Storm does less damage to the primary target of the 2, but does equal damage to all targets it damages. This means that if you are trying to kill targets evenly without preference or the need to kill one of the two faster than the other, DS is more total damage dealt because it is higher cleave.

Cons and DS
Obviously, DS is at its highest level of effectiveness against exactly 4 targets, while consecration gets more and more effective linearly the more targets you add. At 4 targets you should attempt to maintain 100% consecration uptime, but prioritize DS, while the more targets a pack contains the less the abilities other than Cons matter and so you will reach a target density and longevity where you should start prioritizing Judgement 2nd in order to be able to maintain 100% consecrate effectiveness without a gap. (Think a "many whelps" scenario.)
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Re: [Ret-PvE] FCFS Priority with Seal of Command

Postby Joanadark » Tue Apr 13, 2010 3:36 pm

I'd also throw out that probably the most fun I had as a DPSer in wrath was min/maxing DPS during shock blasts in phase 1 firefighter. It was like a chess match where you had to think 15 moves ahead so that the right abilities would be coming off cooldown right before and during the shock blasts so that you could consecrate as the cast started, divine storm behind you as you were running out, strafe-exorcism at the apex of your run out, judge forward from range as you ran back in, and the crusader strike as your gcd finished right as you got back in melee range again.
Firefighter was such serious business for a DPSer that you had to be able to do that level of min/maxing.
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