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[Ret] - Someone who's bored, compare these pally apps for me

Ret, Holy, PVP, etc

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[Ret] - Someone who's bored, compare these pally apps for me

Postby fafhrd » Sun Mar 14, 2010 12:36 am

#1: http://www.wowarmory.com/character-shee ... hakkenbake
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/nzi7ojg7vy71uwux/

#2: http://www.wowarmory.com/character-shee ... &cn=Rocken
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/3upl ... etails/38/

From what little I've picked up about ret pallies from reading random threads here and on EJ, neither seems to be doing anything obviously wrong gear-wise. #2 arguably has the wrong meta, but he's getting a fairly good socket bonus from the extra blue gem he needs to activate it, so it's probably defensible. I don't know enough about their specs to compare. #1 gave intelligent sounding answers to questions, but apparently doesn't use any model/sim based tool (spreadsheets, rawr, simcraft) to make gear/spec decisions which worries me. #2 didn't mention this either, but hasn't been asked as pointedly as #1. They seem to disagree on the value of haste too, with #2 liking it more than #1.

You can actually read their apps if you're really bored, at http://www.scionsofdestiny.com/forums/i ... owforum=44 although I think you have to register to read threads, which is probably too much bother.

Both seem to do similar DPS in their guilds, around 9k on melee ideal fights like Saurfang and Festergut normal. I'm not sure if that's appropriate, it seems a bit low? My warrior alt does quite a bit more than that in worse gear on slower kills.

This won't really determine who gets recruited btw since I don't decide that, so don't feel bad about ripping into either. I'm just curious. I'd actually be pleasantly surprised if it turned out either of them read here.
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Re: [Ret] - Someone who's bored, compare these pally apps for me

Postby tuberon » Sun Mar 14, 2010 1:07 am

In comparing the same fights, I'd believe #1 is likely the better choice.

One doesn't *need* a spreadsheet or rawr if you understand your class.

#1 seems to put out more damage, very spiky, however #2 seems to have a more steady damage rate.

And, I can't really quantify it but I get the sense from the WoL parses that #1 has better reactions to his surroundings.
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Re: [Ret] - Someone who's bored, compare these pally apps for me

Postby Vorianloken » Sun Mar 14, 2010 1:13 am

Other than a missed +8 str socket bonus in legs for #2 and for #1 ignoring a +6 str bonus for a +4 don't really see anything wrong here. Glyphs seem fine too although I'm not a personal fan of consecrate glyph and the spec choices seem obvious AM v/s vindication.

Someone more knowledgeable than me can offer better insight but I would just say that their recruit decision should be based off their personality fit with your guild and their behaviours/attitudes.

Good luck :)
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Re: [Ret] - Someone who's bored, compare these pally apps for me

Postby Levantine » Sun Mar 14, 2010 1:42 am

Vorianloken wrote:Glyphs seem fine too although I'm not a personal fan of consecrate glyph

Which in this case is fine, because if they were like you they'd be failing at being a Ret Paladin.
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Re: [Ret] - Someone who's bored, compare these pally apps for me

Postby Vorianloken » Sun Mar 14, 2010 5:45 am

Levantine wrote:
Vorianloken wrote:Glyphs seem fine too although I'm not a personal fan of consecrate glyph

Which in this case is fine, because if they were like you they'd be failing at being a Ret Paladin.


How does me not using the consecrate glyph mean I fail at being a ret paladin?
Vorianloken - 80 Prot/Ret || Ajeet - 80 Frost Tank/Unholy DPS || Nunnaly - 80 Cat/Tree Druid || Bulveye - 74 Protection Warrior || Sherana - 80 Combat Rogue || Shadallas - 40 Demo Warlock

US-Medivh Power! 7th April 2010 - The day when Dual-Wield Frost Tanking was assassinated. R.I.P my dear friend.
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Re: [Ret] - Someone who's bored, compare these pally apps for me

Postby Levantine » Sun Mar 14, 2010 5:51 am

Last time I checked that was the top dps glyph for Retribution. I shall double check in rawr now, but like hell is it going to be outside the top 3.
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Re: [Ret] - Someone who's bored, compare these pally apps for me

Postby Vorianloken » Sun Mar 14, 2010 5:57 am

Levantine wrote:Last time I checked that was the top dps glyph for Retribution. I shall double check in rawr now, but like hell is it going to be outside the top 3.


so everyone should be min-maxing to the Nth degree and personal preferences are never considered because we all raid in progression guilds that are doing hard modes and everyone has to be pushing their peformance 1000% and should be following mathcraft blindly?
Vorianloken - 80 Prot/Ret || Ajeet - 80 Frost Tank/Unholy DPS || Nunnaly - 80 Cat/Tree Druid || Bulveye - 74 Protection Warrior || Sherana - 80 Combat Rogue || Shadallas - 40 Demo Warlock

US-Medivh Power! 7th April 2010 - The day when Dual-Wield Frost Tanking was assassinated. R.I.P my dear friend.
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Re: [Ret] - Someone who's bored, compare these pally apps for me

Postby Levantine » Sun Mar 14, 2010 6:03 am

There's a difference between doing it right and doing it wrong. Your argument fails to hold any water, and the only reason you think it does is because Blizzard has woefully under-tuned this expansion to the point where people can be doing it wrong to brain crushing levels and still get away with it.
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Re: [Ret] - Someone who's bored, compare these pally apps for me

Postby KysenMurrin » Sun Mar 14, 2010 6:12 am

It's not really min-maxing only relevant to high end raiding when you're talking about a glyph that's been best since 3.0. Consecration glyph increases damage per cast and damage per mana, and the cooldown increase is irrelevant because Ret usually can't cast it on cooldown.
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Re: [Ret] - Someone who's bored, compare these pally apps for me

Postby Levantine » Sun Mar 14, 2010 6:27 am

The increased cooldown is actually a good thing, not even simply irrelevant.
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Re: [Ret] - Someone who's bored, compare these pally apps for me

Postby Argali » Sun Mar 14, 2010 6:38 am

Vorianloken wrote:
Levantine wrote:Last time I checked that was the top dps glyph for Retribution. I shall double check in rawr now, but like hell is it going to be outside the top 3.


so everyone should be min-maxing to the Nth degree and personal preferences are never considered because we all raid in progression guilds that are doing hard modes and everyone has to be pushing their peformance 1000% and should be following mathcraft blindly?


"Playstyle" and "preference" are just words people throw up to mask their own stupidity and laziness.

Preference is playing combat, instead of mutilate, because both are viable raid specs, and both have certain advantages in certain fights, even if mutilate is top dps on bosses.

"Preference" is playing subtlety, without using any poisons.
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Re: [Ret] - Someone who's bored, compare these pally apps for me

Postby Vorianloken » Sun Mar 14, 2010 9:08 am

So, because I am not using a "top" glyph I am stupid and lazy and I fail at playing the spec. Cool. I didn't know that people could be termed bad just based on ONE glyph choice alone.

Levantine wrote:There's a difference between doing it right and doing it wrong. Your argument fails to hold any water, and the only reason you think it does is because Blizzard has woefully under-tuned this expansion to the point where people can be doing it wrong to brain crushing levels and still get away with it.


I am not making an arguement. You said I failed at playing my spec because my glyph choices are not top of the line.

This kind of stupidity is not what I come to these boards for. If people get called out like this then what is the point of people coming here for discussions? Hey you, you are not using the SoV glyph even though you are under the soft-cap for expertise. You are terrible and you fail. Hey you, you are not using the DP glyph as a tank, you are terrible and fail. I perfectly understand the mentality here on how to inform people about glyph choices - insult them and call them bad and you have done a perfect job as a member of this community.
Vorianloken - 80 Prot/Ret || Ajeet - 80 Frost Tank/Unholy DPS || Nunnaly - 80 Cat/Tree Druid || Bulveye - 74 Protection Warrior || Sherana - 80 Combat Rogue || Shadallas - 40 Demo Warlock

US-Medivh Power! 7th April 2010 - The day when Dual-Wield Frost Tanking was assassinated. R.I.P my dear friend.
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Re: [Ret] - Someone who's bored, compare these pally apps for me

Postby Argali » Sun Mar 14, 2010 2:06 pm

Neither is the purpose of the board to baby people who use sub-par things.

Try using a stick to play baseball.

It's only a game.
You're not a professional baseballer.
So who cares?

Still, how many people would mock?
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Re: [Ret] - Someone who's bored, compare these pally apps for me

Postby Levantine » Sun Mar 14, 2010 3:15 pm

Sounds like someone needs to shut their traps and lurk more to be honest. If you're doing something wrong, I'm going to mock you about it, that's pretty common knowledge around these parts. By all means, have a little cry about how the mean old internet anon hurt your feelings. I'm sure you'll get a whole ton of sympathy, especially when you're wrong and deserve to be called on it. (Protip: You deserve to be called on it because you were spreading your wrongness as decent advice. If you had've kept it a secret, none would be the wiser!)
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Re: [Ret] - Someone who's bored, compare these pally apps for me

Postby Boyfriend » Mon Mar 15, 2010 2:51 am

Overall I'd go with #1

#1 has a weird death to ooze pool on a rotface wipe, but I assume at the time wipe was called.

#1 has a weird gem choice taking +4 str but not +6 str socketbonus.

#2 has wrong metagem (and I don't think it's defensibly since the difference in metagem damage is minuscule)

#2 has a bad spec, those points in divine intellect serve no purpose. It's commonly accepted to take Divine Guardian if you're going for Vindication.

#2 died on Valrithia Dreamwalker to what seems to be obviously their own fault, even if the tank was picking their nose no dps should die to a Blistering Zombie, they are very slow on normal.

#2 is not taking any socket bonuses at all from yellow gems, which is now common practice (crit/str in yellow sockets if it unlocks a str bonus)

#2 has haste instead of agi on their cloak

#2 has the wrong reputation ring, the agi ring is better for ret currently than the str ring.
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