[Hunter PVE] Advice sought

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[Hunter PVE] Advice sought

Postby ulushnar » Fri Feb 26, 2010 6:23 am

So yeah, my guild's getting a lot of decent melee dpsers right now, but we're having a lot of difficulty getting a reliable Hunter. (What is it about that class that seems to attract a lot of teenage boys?)

So I'm considering demothballing my old Hunter and getting him to 80. Gear-wise, I'll take whatever I can get from heroics and ilevel 245 craftables, but I have a few questions:

1. What's the "best" raiding spec at the moment, Marksmanship or Survival?
2. Which one has the most fun rotation? (I don't wanna go back to the days of Steady Shot macro spamming in TBC raiding, so I'll probably avoid Beastmastery).
3. Which pet's the best for raiding?
4. Gemming wise, what socket bonuses are worth going for?
5. I gather socketing ArP's good for Marksman and Agility's probably best for Survival, true?
6. How does Haste stack vs crit?
7. If I take the Sta -> AP talent from Survival, is it worth going for an Agi/Sta gem in blue sockets, or should I just ignore em?
Last edited by ulushnar on Fri Feb 26, 2010 8:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [Hunter PVE] Advice sought

Postby Shyrtandros » Fri Feb 26, 2010 6:59 am

They really have scaled almost all pets to be equal with the only exception I know of. (Which may have been changed)

Wolf Pets do a howl that increases hunter/pet dps. That doesn't get overlayed by raid buffs.

Leveling wise 70-80 is easily done with BM of course and survival is good also.

Survival would probably be the recommended "fresh 80" build simply because it doesn't have a HEAVY reliance on ArPen.

As for your other questions if you check the top like.. 20 recent threads you'll probably find all your questions answered and links to hunter websites.
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Re: [Hunter PVE] Advice sought

Postby ulushnar » Fri Feb 26, 2010 8:36 am

Shyrtandros wrote:As for your other questions if you check the top like.. 20 recent threads you'll probably find all your questions answered and links to hunter websites.


Yes, but what's the point of having access to a group of people who are bored on the internet if I don't use them to further my own ends?
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Re: [Hunter PVE] Advice sought

Postby Baelor » Fri Feb 26, 2010 8:57 am

ulushnar wrote:1. What's the "best" raiding spec at the moment, Marksmanship or Survival?
2. Which one has the most fun rotation? (I don't wanna go back to the days of Steady Shot macro spamming in TBC raiding, so I'll probably avoid Beastmastery).
3. Which pet's the best for raiding?
4. Gemming wise, what socket bonuses are worth going for?
5. I gather socketing ArP's good for Marksman and Agility's probably best for Survival, true?
6. How does Haste stack vs crit?
7. If I take the Sta -> AP talent from Survival, is it worth going for an Agi/Sta gem in blue sockets, or should I just ignore em?

1. Marksman at 245+ gear levels
2. Do you like watching that you won't overwrite Explosive Shot DoT's? Do you like reacting to Lock 'n Load procs? If so, Survival is more "fun." If you find those tedious, Marksman.
3. Wolf.

5. True

As for 4, 6, and 7, you'll have to wait for a real hunter to find this post.
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Re: [Hunter PVE] Advice sought

Postby ulushnar » Fri Feb 26, 2010 9:00 am

I guess I'm headed towards Marksman. I like something that's got a rythmn to it, but has buttons you can press when you need extra nukage.
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Re: [Hunter PVE] Advice sought

Postby bldavis » Fri Feb 26, 2010 9:14 am

ulushnar wrote:
Shyrtandros wrote:As for your other questions if you check the top like.. 20 recent threads you'll probably find all your questions answered and links to hunter websites.


Yes, but what's the point of having access to a group of people who are bored on the internet if I don't use them to further my own ends?


very true
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Re: [Hunter PVE] Advice sought

Postby bldavis » Fri Feb 26, 2010 9:16 am

Baelor wrote:
ulushnar wrote:1. What's the "best" raiding spec at the moment, Marksmanship or Survival?
2. Which one has the most fun rotation? (I don't wanna go back to the days of Steady Shot macro spamming in TBC raiding, so I'll probably avoid Beastmastery).
3. Which pet's the best for raiding?
4. Gemming wise, what socket bonuses are worth going for?
5. I gather socketing ArP's good for Marksman and Agility's probably best for Survival, true?
6. How does Haste stack vs crit?
7. If I take the Sta -> AP talent from Survival, is it worth going for an Agi/Sta gem in blue sockets, or should I just ignore em?

1. Marksman at 245+ gear levels
2. Do you like watching that you won't overwrite Explosive Shot DoT's? Do you like reacting to Lock 'n Load procs? If so, Survival is more "fun." If you find those tedious, Marksman.
3. Wolf.

5. True

As for 4, 6, and 7, you'll have to wait for a real hunter to find this post.


i agree with all, but i obvously have been playing my pally for far too long and neglegting my hunter, cause i dont rember off the top of my head


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Brekkie:Tanks are like shitty DPS. And healers are like REALLY distracted DPS
Amirya:Why yes, your penis is longer than his because you hit 30k dps in the first 10 seconds. But guess what? That raid boss has a dick bigger than your ego.
Flex:I don't make mistakes. I execute carefully planned strategic group wipes.
Levie:(in /g) It's weird, I have a collar and I dont know where I got it from, Worgen are kinky!
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Re: [Hunter PVE] Advice sought

Postby fafhrd » Fri Feb 26, 2010 12:54 pm

bldavis wrote:
Baelor wrote:
ulushnar wrote:1. What's the "best" raiding spec at the moment, Marksmanship or Survival?
2. Which one has the most fun rotation? (I don't wanna go back to the days of Steady Shot macro spamming in TBC raiding, so I'll probably avoid Beastmastery).
3. Which pet's the best for raiding?
4. Gemming wise, what socket bonuses are worth going for?
5. I gather socketing ArP's good for Marksman and Agility's probably best for Survival, true?
6. How does Haste stack vs crit?
7. If I take the Sta -> AP talent from Survival, is it worth going for an Agi/Sta gem in blue sockets, or should I just ignore em?

1. Marksman at 245+ gear levels
2. Do you like watching that you won't overwrite Explosive Shot DoT's? Do you like reacting to Lock 'n Load procs? If so, Survival is more "fun." If you find those tedious, Marksman.
3. Wolf.

5. True

As for 4, 6, and 7, you'll have to wait for a real hunter to find this post.


i agree with all, but i obvously have been playing my pally for far too long and neglegting my hunter, cause i dont rember off the top of my head


PAGING FARFHD!


hmm, let's give this a shot.

regarding #1, the biggest thing for MM is weapon DPS, the better your weapon the more you tend towards MM - and the better your gear gets the more arp you tend to accrue, which also helps MM more than SV.

#4. most good gear only has socket bonuses for agi, or ap, with the occasional hit or crit one, making this an easy choice. The correct answer is always to plug yourself into www.femaledwarf.com or shandara's spreadsheet, try out the different gemming solutions for yourself and pick the highest DPS one. If you have to have gemming rules of thumb though, stick 20 agi in every red socket, agi+crit or agi+hit in every yellow socket that gives a usable DPS socket bonus, a nightmare tear in the blue socket that gives you the best bonus, and 20 agis in all the other blue sockets. 21 agi+3% crit damage meta gem.

6. Haste is generally terrible. It only affects autoshot DPS, and while auto is important, all your other stats also affect autoshot while also affecting your specials, pet etc. Normally haste is less DPS per point than INT - with 2pc T10 it picks up a bit and can be slightly better than INT (which is still just saying it's bad).

7. The talent can make it worth gemming an agi stam gem in a blue socket for a very good socket bonus, but usually no. 10agi+4.5ap needs a really good socket bonus to beat 20agi, and the chances of having more than one such socket bonus is low (if you have 1, you'd put a nightmare's tear in it). As before check in the spreadsheet or femaledwarf to make the final decision.


Personally I find MM more fun to play, and obviously better DPS. SV is quite fun too though, and unless you pvp seriously there's no real reason to have to choose - both are raid viable and you can dualspec and use both - they even use practically the same gear until a midpoint of gear where it's better to gem arp as MM but is still not worth gemming ArP as SV (eventually arp wins for both, but that's heroic ICC gear).

I can't comment about levelling, but once 80 getting your hunter raid ready should be quite easy. 2pc T9 and 2pc10 are both very strong set bonuses and easy to get from badges. Greatness+NES is a good trinket pair or even Mirror of Truth. The ICC5 mans have lots of good gear.
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Re: [Hunter PVE] Advice sought

Postby ulushnar » Fri Feb 26, 2010 3:37 pm

Thanks for your help. I'll admit my original goal was 2pc T9 with the 245 lvl helm, shoulders and crafted chest. But if I'm thinking forward to getting 2T10/2T9, which t9 pieces should I be grabbing?
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Re: [Hunter PVE] Advice sought

Postby fafhrd » Fri Feb 26, 2010 8:23 pm

ulushnar wrote:Thanks for your help. I'll admit my original goal was 2pc T9 with the 245 lvl helm, shoulders and crafted chest. But if I'm thinking forward to getting 2T10/2T9, which t9 pieces should I be grabbing?


helm + legs ideally for mm. shoulders or chest also work if you need all the hit, but helm and legs are perfectly itemized for MM, and no worse than anything else for SV.

245 badge shoulders and ony helm are also perfectly itemized, but 251 T10 shoulders and helm are better, so long term no great reason to buy them (shortterm reasons though if you have the badges).
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Re: [Hunter PVE] Advice sought

Postby cerwillis » Mon Mar 01, 2010 3:27 pm

fafhrd wrote:I can't comment about levelling, but once 80 getting your hunter raid ready should be quite easy. 2pc T9 and 2pc10 are both very strong set bonuses and easy to get from badges. Greatness+NES is a good trinket pair or even Mirror of Truth. The ICC5 mans have lots of good gear.

I assume by NES you mean the trinket in h FOS. Would you still suggest using that even if you're survival and nowhere near the arpen cap? Ive been trying to get it, but sadly no drop yet.
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Re: [Hunter PVE] Advice sought

Postby fafhrd » Mon Mar 01, 2010 4:45 pm

cerwillis wrote:
fafhrd wrote:I can't comment about levelling, but once 80 getting your hunter raid ready should be quite easy. 2pc T9 and 2pc10 are both very strong set bonuses and easy to get from badges. Greatness+NES is a good trinket pair or even Mirror of Truth. The ICC5 mans have lots of good gear.

I assume by NES you mean the trinket in h FOS. Would you still suggest using that even if you're survival and nowhere near the arpen cap? Ive been trying to get it, but sadly no drop yet.


I would tend towards "no" but then I'd catch myself and realize the correct answer is "use the spreadsheet to decide (or femaledwarf)".

Greatness is ridiculously good for SV (and MM, but not by as much), so if you're choosing between greatness and NES greatness would likely always win, but for your other trinket slot NES is probably better than most pre-T9 alternatives.
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Re: [Hunter PVE] Advice sought

Postby ulushnar » Tue Mar 02, 2010 12:24 am

Yeah, picked up a Greatness for my guy on Sunday, currently gathering mats as I level for at least the 245 crafted chest and bracers.

Based on what you've said, I'll probably grab a Survival spec first (Replenishment bitch version probably) and then an MM spec when I've got my craftables and I've got gold to burn.
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Re: [Hunter PVE] Advice sought

Postby blkthunder » Wed Mar 03, 2010 7:42 pm

ulushnar wrote:1. What's the "best" raiding spec at the moment, Marksmanship or Survival?
2. Which one has the most fun rotation? (I don't wanna go back to the days of Steady Shot macro spamming in TBC raiding, so I'll probably avoid Beastmastery).
3. Which pet's the best for raiding?
4. Gemming wise, what socket bonuses are worth going for?
5. I gather socketing ArP's good for Marksman and Agility's probably best for Survival, true?
6. How does Haste stack vs crit?
7. If I take the Sta -> AP talent from Survival, is it worth going for an Agi/Sta gem in blue sockets, or should I just ignore em?

1.) Highest theoretical dps is MM atm. But it requires hardcapping arp and essentially unattainable gear for non hardcore raiders. MM/SV ~ same. BM is about 600-1k dps behind.
2.) Suprisingly the difficulty imo goes SV due to proc watching. Then BM for dot management and non standard rotation intervals. MM is easiest because you fire and forget Serpent and you're really only managing CiS, Aimed, and steady. Then you have Rapid fire/readiness/rapid fire. Its not boring but its by far less complex than the other two.
3.) Wolf by a large margin.
4.) Red slots = +Agi
yellow slots = situational If the socket bonus is >= 4agi its usually best to go agi/crit, anything else is usually best to skip for +agi.
Blue = Nightmare tear slot if not +agi ignoring socket bonuses. Agi still scales better than the ap from stam bonus in the SV tree.
5.) No, MM arpen stacking is only useful if you're close to the softcap via trinket procs or compltely hardcapping it. In most 10m situations an Agi MM will be >= the ArP equiv due to high reliance on raid buffs. Ive always been a fan of "Best personal dps regardless of buffs" so i steer clear of ArP setups. Agi > all for SV.
6.) Haste = melee stat. It'll come with gear but you still want to prioritize
Hit(to cap)>Agi>crit>ap>haste>Int>stam for those pesky SV hunters.
7.) Refer to question 4... tldr fahgedaboutit /guido

Edit:
For me MM became better dps at uld10 gear lvl, so by the time you're badge geared out you'll be able to choose between MM and SV based on playstyle preference as opposed to gear limits. I think the 232 uld weapons dps threshold was what allowed MM to be competative so anything better than that and you're solid.

Banner of Victory = decent for MM
Needle Encrusted Scorpion = great for MM
Greatness = 100% drop and great for both specs
Mirror of something or another = decent itemization but still weaker than the above for mm.

Regarding hit... the imization on the 1h weapon enchant accuracy is superior to all others so that if you're lacking hit and you dont mind dual weilding its a great way to boost yourself 50 hit so you have some flexibility in your gearing options. Even if you're over the hit cap the crit is still comperable to dual greater potency.
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Re: [Hunter PVE] Advice sought

Postby ulushnar » Mon Mar 08, 2010 3:53 am

Here be he. (I don't know what happened with the AP gem in his legs, I think I was more tired than I realised when I logged into my JC alt on Saturday night).

Hit level 80 on Saturday at about 2pm, then started a monster grind for EoTs. Ended up with 3pc T9, 1pc T10 (lucky VoA) and some assorted other epic drops by 8pm on Sunday night, when I went raiding.

I've taken Survival and Marksman dual specs, Survival for Replenishment and Marksman for Improved/Glyphed Mark when we have a Replenishment buffer. I haven't really practised MM that much though and although trying it in a heroic this morning, I did notice my numbers per shot were significantly bigger.

1. Any suggestions on how I can improve either spec? Or indeed my Wolf's spec?
2. When did Volley become so frigging awesome? Seriously it was a bad joke in TBC.
3. My GM's asked me to get a Windserpent ready for Blood Princes. The idea being I can sic it on a Kinetic Orb and it'll free up one DPS from having to wand it (we don't have that much wand-using DPS normally). Has anyone tried this? Does it work? Does anyone know a good Windserpent spec?
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