[pve-hunter] Marksman... to go armor pen or no?

Ret, Holy, PVP, etc

Moderators: Fridmarr, Worldie, Aergis, Baelor

[pve-hunter] Marksman... to go armor pen or no?

Postby Shoju » Mon Feb 22, 2010 12:14 pm

I have read EJ, and a couple of guides that I have been able to find, and I'm a little confused as to how to gem a marksman hunter? I have seen marksman hunters with

20agi
40 ap
and armor pen gems.

Sometimes they are full arp, sometimes they are a mix of arp + agi/ap (one or the other) gems, but never a mix of agi/ap.

how do I know how to gem? is AP better than AGI?
User avatar
Shoju
 
Posts: 6395
Joined: Mon May 19, 2008 7:15 am

Re: [pve-hunter] Marksman... to go armor pen or no?

Postby bldavis » Mon Feb 22, 2010 12:21 pm

every thing i have read and heard about MM hunters is that ArPen is KING!

I would say go with ArPen gems and Agil/ArPen becuase hunters get AP from Agil, i believe its 2:1 if i remember right (been playing my pally too long forgot my mains theroycraft now!)

Agil will also get you some crit, and who doesnt like crit?

i dont have numbers, just my own expirience, but then again i leveled as BM and then switched to Surv, never done MM so .....
Image

Brekkie:Tanks are like shitty DPS. And healers are like REALLY distracted DPS
Amirya:Why yes, your penis is longer than his because you hit 30k dps in the first 10 seconds. But guess what? That raid boss has a dick bigger than your ego.
Flex:I don't make mistakes. I execute carefully planned strategic group wipes.
Levie:(in /g) It's weird, I have a collar and I dont know where I got it from, Worgen are kinky!
Levie:Drunk Lev goes and does what he pleases just to annoy sober Lev.
Sagara:You see, you need to *spread* the bun before you insert the hot dog.
User avatar
bldavis
 
Posts: 7418
Joined: Mon Sep 07, 2009 12:04 pm
Location: Searching for myself. If i get back before I return, please have me stop and wait for myself.

Re: [pve-hunter] Marksman... to go armor pen or no?

Postby Palmela » Mon Feb 22, 2010 12:37 pm

ArP until hardcapped with trinkets then Agi or Agi/crit if the sockets worth it, some MM hunters go full ArP and ignore ArP trinkets although that requires high end gear. Either way if your hunters fresh 80 surv is gonna beat MM until later gear levels where you can actually reach ArP caps with your gear/trinkets. http://www.femaledwarf.com/ hunter web-based spreadsheet that can tell you which gemming would be an upgrade.
Image
Image
Image
Palmela
 
Posts: 132
Joined: Tue Aug 19, 2008 12:40 pm

Re: [pve-hunter] Marksman... to go armor pen or no?

Postby Shoju » Mon Feb 22, 2010 12:46 pm

Palmela wrote:ArP until hardcapped with trinkets then Agi or Agi/crit if the sockets worth it, some MM hunters go full ArP and ignore ArP trinkets although that requires high end gear. Either way if your hunters fresh 80 surv is gonna beat MM until later gear levels where you can actually reach ArP caps with your gear/trinkets. http://www.femaledwarf.com/ hunter web-based spreadsheet that can tell you which gemming would be an upgrade.



Thanks for the info. I wont be changing to survival. The REASON I leveled this guy was to have a marksman hunter. I know, weird, stubborn, whatever. I tried Survival, and it was ok, and I tried BM, and I H.A.T.E.D. that. If Arp is the way to go, then I will start gearing for that. I looked at Fafhrd's gear, and he is gemmed for Agi, but I wasn't sure if that was because of being passively at the Arp cap or for some other reason.
User avatar
Shoju
 
Posts: 6395
Joined: Mon May 19, 2008 7:15 am

Re: [pve-hunter] Marksman... to go armor pen or no?

Postby Palmela » Mon Feb 22, 2010 1:08 pm

Hes probably hitting hardcap with his trinkets procced so after that agi is gonna be the strongest stat.
Image
Image
Image
Palmela
 
Posts: 132
Joined: Tue Aug 19, 2008 12:40 pm

Re: [pve-hunter] Marksman... to go armor pen or no?

Postby Shoju » Tue Feb 23, 2010 5:20 am

Well, For anyone who might be able to help me,

Here is my hunter.

How good is 4pc t9 for a Marks hunter? I know the pet isn't a lot of my dps currently, and wasn't sure if 4pc should be a goal? My plan for emblems on the guy is

Legs
Chest
Trinket (unless a NeC drops first)
Ring
Gloves
Shoulders

Does that seem to be the right way to go?
User avatar
Shoju
 
Posts: 6395
Joined: Mon May 19, 2008 7:15 am

Re: [pve-hunter] Marksman... to go armor pen or no?

Postby Kelaan » Tue Feb 23, 2010 11:25 am

May I suggest the TKASomething forums? It's a forum roughly of similar quality as this one, but all about huntering. There are several threads (as well as a spreadsheet and an online tool) about arpen.

http://forums.tkasomething.com/
http://www.femaledwarf.com/

Have you run your character through Femaledwarf and seen how arpen affects your dps? Note also that arpen depends heavily on there being sunders on the target, which is much more common in 25-man raids and relatively rare in 10-man raids. See what the spread between the two, and then realize that agi is universally useful whereas arpen needs raid buffs to reach full potential.
User avatar
Kelaan
 
Posts: 4037
Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2008 12:01 pm

Re: [pve-hunter] Marksman... to go armor pen or no?

Postby Shoju » Tue Feb 23, 2010 11:45 am

Kelaan wrote:May I suggest the TKASomething forums? It's a forum roughly of similar quality as this one, but all about huntering. There are several threads (as well as a spreadsheet and an online tool) about arpen.

http://forums.tkasomething.com/
http://www.femaledwarf.com/

Have you run your character through Femaledwarf and seen how arpen affects your dps? Note also that arpen depends heavily on there being sunders on the target, which is much more common in 25-man raids and relatively rare in 10-man raids. See what the spread between the two, and then realize that agi is universally useful whereas arpen needs raid buffs to reach full potential.



Thanks for the links. I have gone through the femdwarf looking at suggested dps, but I haven't changed anything up to see how things work out by adding more arp for my dps.
User avatar
Shoju
 
Posts: 6395
Joined: Mon May 19, 2008 7:15 am

Re: [pve-hunter] Marksman... to go armor pen or no?

Postby Kelaan » Tue Feb 23, 2010 2:59 pm

Agility gemming gives you versatility: predictable performance in all situations. Arpen will give you better performance in some situations, and worse in others.

From what I've read, in optimal situations (sunders), arpen stacking seems to pay off well -- I think a couple hundred DPS? -- but doesn't do as well as plain agility when you don't have that (such as when dealing with adds, etc). Many fights in ICC (and elsewhere) are stand-and-dps fights, but several major ones have hunters dealing with adds (saurfang, deathwhisper, putricide, etc) where you often won't have that extra armor reduction. Moreover, I believe often people are using an armor penetration trinket. However, I think I've read people at TKAsomething saying that some of the ICC trinkets are Better Overall than the older arpen trinkets, and that by losing that large chunk of static (and/or procced) armor penetration, it's harder to reach suitable levels of armor pen.

Disclaimer: My main used to be a hunter, so I still trawl TKASomething's forums. I've not leveled my hunter to 80 yet, as my paladin has simply been Way Too Much Fun, so I can't back anything up with anecdote. ;)
User avatar
Kelaan
 
Posts: 4037
Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2008 12:01 pm

Re: [pve-hunter] Marksman... to go armor pen or no?

Postby fafhrd » Fri Feb 26, 2010 1:32 pm

So many hunter threads this week :o

"should I gem arp or not?" is an annoying and pointless question people ask. Current hunter gear/enchant/spec choices are all best made via spreadsheet or www.femaledwarf.com . Both are painstaking made and maintianed to model everything we can about the class as possible. "Use the spreadsheet" is always a better answer than any human on a forum can give you. If the spreadsheet say you get more DPS gemming arp, keep gemming arp until it tells you to stop. If the spreadsheet ever tells you to gem AP, you have most likely misconfigured something.

I stuck to gemming agi since I dualspec SV for 10's very often and the slight DPS gain from gemming arp to softcap as MM wouldn't offset the large dps loss I'd cause my SV dps. That being said, I'm currently over arp softcap for my trinket without gemming any arp anyway. If a DBW would drop so I weren't locked into an ulduar 10 ArP proc trinket, I would gem ArP up to hardcap.

Re: your hunter:

- you have a bit too much hit, look into replacing those pieces first if you have a choice (although replacing the blues and 200s first would obviously be a better deal
- 4pc T9 is fairly terrible as a set bonus, but if you're just trying to gear up quick, buying the badge pieces is likely a good and quick upgrade.
- all the badge trinkets other than the ilvl200 one are fairly bad for hunters
- t9 gloves are the weakest piece, t10 legs are the weakest piece
- change to female belf
ImageImage
1/1 Lore pre-nerf.
User avatar
fafhrd
 
Posts: 5432
Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2007 2:31 pm

Re: [pve-hunter] Marksman... to go armor pen or no?

Postby Shoju » Fri Feb 26, 2010 1:40 pm

fafhrd wrote:So many hunter threads this week :o

"should I gem arp or not?" is an annoying and pointless question people ask. Current hunter gear/enchant/spec choices are all best made via spreadsheet or http://www.femaledwarf.com . Both are painstaking made and maintianed to model everything we can about the class as possible. "Use the spreadsheet" is always a better answer than any human on a forum can give you. If the spreadsheet say you get more DPS gemming arp, keep gemming arp until it tells you to stop. If the spreadsheet ever tells you to gem AP, you have most likely misconfigured something.

I stuck to gemming agi since I dualspec SV for 10's very often and the slight DPS gain from gemming arp to softcap as MM wouldn't offset the large dps loss I'd cause my SV dps. That being said, I'm currently over arp softcap for my trinket without gemming any arp anyway. If a DBW would drop so I weren't locked into an ulduar 10 ArP proc trinket, I would gem ArP up to hardcap.

Re: your hunter:

- you have a bit too much hit, look into replacing those pieces first if you have a choice (although replacing the blues and 200s first would obviously be a better deal
- 4pc T9 is fairly terrible as a set bonus, but if you're just trying to gear up quick, buying the badge pieces is likely a good and quick upgrade.
- all the badge trinkets other than the ilvl200 one are fairly bad for hunters
- t9 gloves are the weakest piece, t10 legs are the weakest piece
- change to female belf



Thanks for the info. I kind of walked into 2t10 (legs and hands) in a VoA10 guild run. We had another pally, but didn't have a hunter, so I bought my guy along.

I'm hoping for another 1h'er to drop, hopefully, that will help fix my hit dilemmas. The next thing that Rawr is saying for EoT's (I'm going by what is the biggest DPS increase) is to replace the Ring of Foul Mojo with the Dexterous Brightstone Ring. So, I'm working on that one. If I had the Artic Fur, I would already have new belt and boots, but the stuff is back over 100g each on server, and I don't have a skinner (I have the gold, but damn... 2k g in mats for 2 pieces of gear for an alt just irritates me). I will probably be sticking with 2t9 2t10 for a while, and picking up the 245 lvl non set hat (though I can't stress enough how much I love the look of the metal goat head)

Looks like I'm going to be praying to the devourer of souls for a NEC then?

I would change to fem B/E, but man.... that would mean that all my 80's are fem BE, and that might creep people out.
User avatar
Shoju
 
Posts: 6395
Joined: Mon May 19, 2008 7:15 am

Re: [pve-hunter] Marksman... to go armor pen or no?

Postby blkthunder » Wed Mar 03, 2010 8:04 pm

Things to shoot for while gearing out a MM hunter

Ony helm
245 shoulders
232 crafted boots are actually pretty good in the long run
RUN ToC5 as many times as you can for BoV

and as previously stated www.tkasomething.com and www.femaledwarf.com
Image
.............................Do not go gentle into that good night.............................
...........................Rage, rage against the dying of the light...........................
Image
blkthunder
 
Posts: 200
Joined: Mon Jul 14, 2008 7:37 am

Re: [pve-hunter] Marksman... to go armor pen or no?

Postby Shoju » Thu Mar 04, 2010 8:15 am

Well, you can check out my hunter again. I haven't had a chance to run any raids with him, but I'm thinking I'm not going to have the gear to run as MM which makes me very sad.

I was doing the math, and I would be much better suited to go to Survival with my current gear :( I lost the NESc to a guildie hunter last night, here is hoping that I can get another crack at it tonight. Even with the NESc Fem dwarf is showing more dps as survival.
User avatar
Shoju
 
Posts: 6395
Joined: Mon May 19, 2008 7:15 am

Re: [pve-hunter] Marksman... to go armor pen or no?

Postby blkthunder » Thu Mar 04, 2010 9:23 am

you dont HAVE to go arpen as mm. its top theoretical dps but not necessarily best overall. You dont have much arp but you have balanced enough gear to pull off MM.
Image
.............................Do not go gentle into that good night.............................
...........................Rage, rage against the dying of the light...........................
Image
blkthunder
 
Posts: 200
Joined: Mon Jul 14, 2008 7:37 am

Re: [pve-hunter] Marksman... to go armor pen or no?

Postby Shoju » Thu Mar 04, 2010 10:39 am

It was just disheartening to see my dps in a heroic. Maybe I'm setting my sites to high, but I'm only hitting 3800-4300 DPS normally unless it is a nice stand and deliver fight (last time I did tyrannus I didn't get hit with brand at all) and I can do 4600-4800.

Is that acceptable in a 5 man? I know it's hard to gauge dps in a 5 man setting, but it felt like I wasn't getting the most out of my dps. Then again, the only other physical DPS experience I have is on my pally as ret.
User avatar
Shoju
 
Posts: 6395
Joined: Mon May 19, 2008 7:15 am

Next

Return to Off-specs & Other Classes

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

Who is online

In total there is 1 user online :: 0 registered, 0 hidden and 1 guest (based on users active over the past 5 minutes)
Most users ever online was 380 on Tue Oct 14, 2008 6:28 pm

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest