[PvE Priest] Question on stats and gear

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[PvE Priest] Question on stats and gear

Postby sherck » Fri Oct 09, 2009 4:42 am

My priest is heading towards 80 and pre-raid gearing and I have a "just dinged 80" set mapped out that I will be able to step into inside of 1 hour of hitting level 80 (have to do a couple of quests that are not available until level 80). It consists of many BoE / crafted blue (not rich enough for Epic) items that have already been purchased from the AH, a couple of quest items and some rep vendor items. All are 100% obtainable.

This puts me in the position to start running Heroics and Naxx/OS/VoA and getting Emblems to start working on that gear (and hopefully get some quick upgrades along the way).

However, my set is heavily weighted towards "holy" stats; i.e. Spirit is on every piece as is Intellect and SpellPower with little in the way of Crit / Haste / MP5 (and Stamina is optional).

Questions:

1. I plan to dual spec at level 80 Holy healing and Disc healing. Will I be able to effectively heal Heroics / Naxx as a Disc healer with gear that is not super-loaded with Intellect and has virtually zero MP5 and Haste?

2. Which is the more effective Heroics healing spec; Holy or Disc? Should I be pointed more towards a Disc gearing instead of a Holy gearing for entry level stuff?

That's it. Thanks.

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Re: [PvE Priest] Question on stats and gear

Postby hoho » Fri Oct 09, 2009 5:15 am

Disc ftw!

Though I'm a "bit" biased.


Both are viable for everything from 5-mans to 25-man hardmodes as either tank or raid healers. Holy has awesome burst raid healing, disc has OP mitigation. If you have druids+holy priests on raid healing I'd say it's not as good as disc+druid as lots of druid hots will be sniped by coh/poh spam whereas shields would allow them to tick quietly while preventing people from dying. Not to mention the awesomeness that shields are when you pre-shield whole raid before XT tantrum. "lolwut, where's the damage?" is not uncommon when people just had 7-8k hp added to their healthpool :)

As for gear, disc is pretty much a holy pala in cloth, just not as obsessive about intellect and stacking much more spellpower. As disc I'd go for spellpower>int=crit>haste>mp5>spirit>rest. I value spellpower so high because I'm mostly on raid and shields only scale with spellpower. High longevity is important as shield spam eats through your mana FAST. Crit is good for the moments you spam something else besides shields, haste not so much as you'll get 25% of it on every shield cast.

For regen int is far superior to anything else, especially thanks to talents boosting it by 15%. MP5 is better than spirit because we get zero benefit from spirit as disc and for regen raw mp5 is much better.



I can't say much about holy as I know very little about them. From the little I've heard/read I think they mostly stack haste, spellpower and spirit with int and mp5 being much lower priority than for disc.

[edit]
From my understanding disc is a bit easier on lower gear levels. Our throughput doesn't scale much anyway and our regen through rapture is quite good so we don't run OOM as fast as holy would.
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Re: [PvE Priest] Question on stats and gear

Postby katraya » Fri Oct 09, 2009 6:57 am

Ugh, wrote a whole long post that mysteriously vanished when I hit a random button. :cry:


Anyway...

I agree with hoho that disc would be your best bet for starter heroics. The mana regen you will have will make your life significantly easier than it would be as holy. The only problem disc faces is in major AoE damage situations, but I believe you used to be a holy pally so you're used to that. Plus, disc is fun AND you get pretty shiny bubbles. The only reason I went holy after leveling and starting at 80 as disc was because when i switched my main to my priest my guild had a ton of holy pallies. Later one of those pallies switched to his priest and took the disc slot.

For gear, you want int, int and then some more int, at least when you're first starting out. With a side of spellpower, crit and maybe mp5 but really int is your main regen stat. Brilliant and Luminous gems will be your best friend. You also want to use the sp/crit head and shoulder enchants rather than the sp/mp5 ones.

What does this gear list of yours look like? Do you have a warcrafter or other profile link?

I know when my priest hit 80 I had stashed away the following goodies for her:
Titanium Spellshock Ring and Neck - my pally was a jc though so this was easy for me to make.
Reanimator's Cloak
Runecaster's Mantle
Spellweave Gloves - I think I got mine for under 200g
Deep Frozen Cord
Bindings of Yearning or badge bracers depending on server prices and your finances
Prison Manifest if you have a 1H weapon (like the Ring of Blood type event one)
Canoneer's Fusilage is a good quest trinket
I think I had a few Frostsavage pieces made as well. Even though they're more pvp orientated they still had a lot more sp and int than my leveling gear.

Also, while dual speccing disc/holy is a popular thing to do I am not a huge fan. I find it much easier to get into runs when I have the flexibility to be either a healer or dps. Two healing specs isn't really needed outside of later raids and even then it depends on your guilds needs. Do whatever makes you happy though.(Of course if you look right now I am holy/disc lol)
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Re: [PvE Priest] Question on stats and gear

Postby hoho » Fri Oct 09, 2009 7:03 am

katraya wrote:The only problem disc faces is in major AoE damage situations, but I believe you used to be a holy pally so you're used to that.
Bubble everything->poh spam? Holy only has coh and slightly harder-hitting poh but can't bubble. If aoe is at least somewhat predictable disc > holy for 5-mans.
katraya wrote:Also, while dual speccing disc/holy is a popular thing to do I am not a huge fan. I find it much easier to get into runs when I have the flexibility to be either a healer or dps
This is definitely right. You can even use shadow pieces as disc quite well and vice-versa for most of the time. Only problem is when you go for full int gems but it shouldn't really be needed, I've managed to heal all U10 hardmodes+lots of 25-man hardmodes in nearly full shadow gear with healing trinkets, I think I had around 25k raid-buffed mana.
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Re: [PvE Priest] Question on stats and gear

Postby sherck » Fri Oct 09, 2009 1:51 pm

katraya wrote:What does this gear list of yours look like? Do you have a warcrafter or other profile link?


First, thanks for the responses. Here is the gear I was thinking about:

Head: Shroud of Temptation Quest from reg DTK
Neck: Dragon Prow Amulet Already in Bank.
Shoulders: Runecaster"s Mantle Already in Bank.
Back: Reanimator"s Cloak Already in Bank.
Chest: Bauble-Woven Gown Quest from reg UP
Wrists: Ancestral Sinew Wristguards Revered with Wyrmrest Accord
Hands: Moonshroud Gloves Already in Bank.
Waist: Shimmerthread Girdle Already in Bank.
Legs: Frostmoon Pants Already in Bank.
Feet: Aurora Slippers Not found yet. Will purchase off AH or gather mats and get tailored.
1H Weapon: Gavel of the Brewing Storm Revered with Wyrmrest Accord
Off-Hand: Prison Manifest Already in Bank.
Wand: Wand of Chilled Renewal Quest reward in Storm Peaks
Ring: Lion"s Head Ring Quest in reg Gundrak
Ring: Ring of Decimation Quest in reg UK (yeah, only other "for sure" rign with Spirit on it. SP amount is a bit low but otherwise...

Have not found trinkets I like.

These all have Intellect, Spirit and Spellpower on them (witht he exception of the 1H weapon). That was my primary criteria for my 'holy' healing mindset.

If I change to Disc.....hmmmm....

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Re: [PvE Priest] Question on stats and gear

Postby sherck » Tue Oct 13, 2009 10:11 am

Well, after some research this weekend and a bunch of looking at theorycrafting, I have decided to follow your (collective) advice and look to go Disc healing primary (especially as I level to 80 to get a feel for it and to start doing Heroics) with Holy healing as a backup at level 80 instead of the other way around.

It seems to fit my healing style a bit better because it matches up with how a Paladin heals; pre-shield your target, lots of single-person direct heals with a lot of cool "specials" (Pain Supression, Power Infusion, Grace proc, Divine Aegis proc) that can effect how well you use your healing spells.

Of course, a Priest also has access to things like Prayer of Healing, Binding Healing, Prayer of Mending, Divine Hymn and Renew (however weak for a Disc healer) that a Holy Paladin does not to keep things interesting.

The final factor was that much of the mana regen theorycraft at Elitest Jerks talks about how mana regen right now pretty much is equal for Holy Priests in raids with access to replenishment no matter if you choose to stack Intellect or Spirit as your "regen" stat. Each do the job, they just do the job differently (MP5 is a static way to regen that is not dependent on either Intellect based regen or Spirit based regen).

So, as I build my Disc healing set, it can also double as a Holy healing set. However, if I build a Spirit based Holy set first, it CANNOT double as an effective Disc set.

So, with that in mind, here is my "just dingged 80, have not run a Heroic yet, 100% for sure" equipment list:

Head = Cowl of the Vindictive Captain, Quest from UP
I though about going for the Frostsavage Cowl because my choice has Haste instead of Crit but would lose 35 Intellect by going with the PvP tailored piece. Slap the SP/Crit Arcanum on it from Kirin Tor rep and I will be good to go.

Neck = Dragon Prow Necklace, In Bank
Yeah, it has Spirit on it but it was cheap, it is in the bank and the Intellect and Spell Power numbers are solid. I will upgrade to the Spellshock crafted neck if my bankroll can support the move but this is a fine choice for now.

Shoulders = Dark Runic Mantle, BoE World Drop
Good Intellect and Spell Power number but has Haste instead of Crit. Has a socket, however, for more 12 Intellect with a Brilliant Sun Crystal dropped in it. Grind for the Sons of Hodir "Storm" inscription for SP/Crit

Back = Shroud of Dedicated Research, Honored with Kirin Tor
Nice cloak but again, has Haste instead of Crit. It will be the last item with Haste on it instead of Crit. I will put the Speed enchant on it for another 15 Haste rating. Seriously, I am done with Haste.

Chest = Frostsavage Robes, Tailored
Intellect, Spell Power, Crit...all that a Disc Priest needs. Sure, has some PvP stats but all else is solid. Super Stats +8 for more Intellect goodness. Plus some Stam and Spirit.

Wrists = Frostsavage Bracers, Tailored
Again, PvP points but all else is good for a Disc Priest. + 23 Spell Power for the enchant.

Hands = Moonshroud Gloves, In Bank
I purchased them for only 125 gold on the AH. Sure, they have Spirit and no extras in the way of Crit/Haste/MP5 but they have a ton of Spell Power and a good Intellect amount. Nothing else pre-raid comes close until you get some badge gear. + 28 Spell Power enchant.

Waist = Deep Frozen Cord, In Bank
Intellect, Spell Power and Crit. Throw on a belt buckle and slot another Brilliant gem in for another 12 Intellect.

Legs = Frostsavage Leggings, Tailored
Old song is playing again...Intellect, Spell Power and Crit. Throw on some Shining Spellthread for the extra Spell Power (and Spirit, sigh) and you are good to go.

Feet = Aurora Slippers, In Bank
Okay, Spirit on this piece and no extras but the list of good cloth feet at this Item Level is not very long. I guess enchant with Greater Spirit because Fortitude does not do much for us.

Weapon = Devoute Aurastone Hammer, Using
Better than anything else I could go after other than the Gavel of Brewing Storms (Revered with Wyrmrest Accord) or the Kirin Tor rep dagger (also Revered). I do not plan on grinding those reps prior to level 80 so... It has the + 29 Spell Power enchant on it that I will NOT upgrade to the + 50 just until my Priest gets a real raiding weapon. I will be using this on my next Alt and that + 29 SP enchant was EXPENSIVE.

Off - Hand = Prison Manifest, In Bank
Was cheap, is in my bank and has good Intellect and Spell Power. Spirit on it but, oh well.

Wand = Iceshieker's Touch, Quests in Icecrown
Intellect, Spell Power and Crit; what more can I ask for?

Ring = Runed Mana Band, In Bank
Blah, Blah, Blah...Intellect, SP, Crit

Ring = Ring of Temerity, Quest in Occulus
HATE this quest chain, but the ring is good. Huge Intellect for Item Level, good Crit and only okay Spell Power

Trinket = Cannonneer's Fuselighter, Quest in Icecrown
Crit and an "On Use" of + Spell Power...about perfect

Trinket = No idea

Stats from gear/gems/enchants:
Stamina = 595
Intellect = 631
Spirit = 233
Spell Power = 1313
Critical Strike = 305
Haste = 155
MP5 = 7

Do those ratios seem about right to start off with?

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Re: [PvE Priest] Question on stats and gear

Postby Doogiehowser » Tue Oct 13, 2009 12:01 pm

http://www.wowhead.com/?item=47215

Go farm reg ToC for this trinket to fill your other trinket spot. I don't know how they got away with making this a 200 level item but it's absolutely fantastic.

Larger rapture gains, larger Judgements of the Wise gains, larger. . . well, you get my drift.

The proc works out to about 50mp5. Not too shabby.
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Re: [PvE Priest] Question on stats and gear

Postby sherck » Thu Oct 15, 2009 4:47 am

Doogiehowser wrote:http://www.wowhead.com/?item=47215

Go farm reg ToC for this trinket to fill your other trinket spot. I don't know how they got away with making this a 200 level item but it's absolutely fantastic.

Larger rapture gains, larger Judgements of the Wise gains, larger. . . well, you get my drift.

The proc works out to about 50mp5. Not too shabby.


Yeah, love that trinket...my only problem is that one piece is about the ONLY item that drops in Reg ToC that is good for Disc priest. Every other cloth piece that drops either has Hit or Spirit on it.

I ended up scoring a Darkmoon Card: Illusion on the AH for only 300 gold. That is a fine starter trinket for raiding until I can get better drops.

Again, thanks for the advice.

Cheers,
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Re: [PvE Priest] Question on stats and gear

Postby hoho » Thu Oct 15, 2009 5:00 am

Well, spirit isn't terrible for disc, it's certainly better to have something with spirit from totc than some blues :)
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Re: [PvE Priest] Question on stats and gear

Postby sherck » Thu Oct 15, 2009 5:05 am

So, for the final time, here is what I have decided to end up with on my soon to be level 80 Disc Priest.

I decided that my cash was doing nothing just sitting there on my banker toon so I opened up the spending and here is what I ended up with.

Head = Frostsavage Cowl (to work on Kirin Tor rep for Arcanum)
Neck = Titanium Spellshock Necklace (Luminous [Int/SP] Monarch Topaz orange gem)
Shoulders = Frostsavage Shoulders (to work on Sons of Hodir rep for Storm Inscription)
Back = Wispcloak (enchant Speed + 15)
Chest = Frostsavage Robe (enchant Super Stats + 8 )
Wrists = Frostsavage Bracers (enchant Greater Spellpower +23)
Hands = Frostsavage Gloves (enchant Exception Spellpower +28)
Waist = Deep Frozen Cord (Belt Buckle with Luminous Monarch Topaz orange gem)
Legs = Frostsavage Legs (Azure Spellthread)
Feet = Frostsavage Boots (enchant Icewalker)
Weapon = Devout Aurastone Hammer (enchant Spellower + 29)
Off-Hand = Faces of Doom
Wand = Iceshieker's Touch
Ring = Titanium Spellshock Ring (Luminous Monarch Topaz orange gem)
Ring = Runed Mana Band
Trinket = Darkmoon Card: Illusion
Trinket = Cannoneer's Fuselighter

Every piece has Crit on it except for the Wispcloak and the Darkmoon Card: Illusion (534 Crit Strike rating from gear).

Stats (self-buffed) with food and Flask about 10 minutes after I ding level 80 (so I can train)...

17,036 Health (dang PvP gear)
17,568 Mana
1730 Spell Power
30.23% Critical Strike change with Holy spells
6.46% Haste

Man, Pennance is a good spell.

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Re: [PvE Priest] Question on stats and gear

Postby hoho » Thu Oct 15, 2009 5:24 am

Frostsavage stuff isn't exactly great. Yes, crit is good but int is better and haste isn't a wasted stat either. I'd probably go with this quest reward and run stratholme or oculus heroics for the blue helms with meta socket that drop there.

Of course you can also do as I did with my druid and jump into some naxx/OS pugs in your quest and get your epics from there :P
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Re: [PvE Priest] Question on stats and gear

Postby sherck » Thu Oct 15, 2009 5:56 am

hoho wrote:Of course you can also do as I did with my druid and jump into some naxx/OS pugs in your quest and get your epics from there :P


That would be my plan. I will not turn down doing Heroics for the badges and potential blue/epic upgrades that may come from them but my plan would be to join raids as soon as possible and hopefully score epics there.

My brother and nephew are in one of the best progression guilds on my server, Alone, and I might have an angle to get in there and be one of their low-level substitute players. I only raid one night a week so I will never be on a raiding team but if I can get in a large, good guild, I hope that I can generate guild runs for Heroics and "alt" gearing raid runs.

We will see.

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Re: [PvE Priest] Question on stats and gear

Postby katraya » Thu Oct 15, 2009 6:43 am

hoho wrote:Well, spirit isn't terrible for disc, it's certainly better to have something with spirit from totc than some blues :)


This is very very true. Don't get so caught up in avoiding spirit. It isn't bad for you, it just isn't your top priority. You are not allergic to spirit, it is ok to have on your gear.

I actually found it very easy to get into regular ToC on my mage at 78. If you find people who are after a drop that a caster won't touch, like the ArPen trinket, they're usually happy to bring a low level caster over a melee dps. Now, if you only have a healing spec then it could be a bit difficult. However, it sounds like you know some people on your server so tryn to cajole them into taking you along.

For example, Legguards of the Haggard Apprentice are significantly better than the Frostsavage legs spirit or not.
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Re: [PvE Priest] Question on stats and gear

Postby hoho » Thu Oct 15, 2009 7:06 am

Heh, seems like I should have read more than couple of first items in the list. I find it kind of surprising you can even get that high manapool with all those pretty awful pvp blues. If you have a few mountains of gold you can easily get MUCH better crafted epics. E.g I got some cloth gloves for my druid for around 200g, there are decent pieces for most of the slots and that stuff shouldn't be that expensive.
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Re: [PvE Priest] Question on stats and gear

Postby sherck » Fri Oct 16, 2009 4:28 am

I healed my first 2 instances last night as Disc....reg Durnholde as a level 68 and then reg Nexus as a level 69 (level 74 tank, however).

Well, dang it, I just fell in LOVE with the Disc healing style. It felt just like a Holy Paladin except you have SO many more tools to deal with the issues rather than just the instant hammer, the little hammer and the big hammer that is Paladin healing.

While on the surface it seems somewhat the same: PW:S, Pennance and Flash Heal, I had PoM binging around (surprisingly, got 3-4 jumps on almost every pull...I was assuming less), I got in a couple of VERY nice Binding Heals, I used Greater Heal in conjunction with Inner Focus and I even threw in a couple of PoH which I thought would seem like they took FOREVER to cast but were in reality very nicely timed (why cannot DPS learn to kill the dang rift voids first? Stop DPSing the boss and kill the voids.....sigh).

Pain Surpression, Power Infusion, Shadowfiend, Fear Ward and multiple Dispels all kept it interesting as well.

It was fun, fun, fun and I got quite a few compliments from the Nexus group on my healing.

---------------
So, again, what stat weighting / priority would you put up for Disc healers? I am hearing:

Int >>>>>>> Spell Power = Crit >> Haste = Spirit with MP5 somewhere in there

Right? Wrong?

---------------
But, hey, if the Frostsavage stuff sucks, there is no where to go but up, right? :D

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