[Hunter MM] EJ lists MM as highest DPS endgame, but...

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[Hunter MM] EJ lists MM as highest DPS endgame, but...

Postby Kiorken » Mon Aug 24, 2009 9:14 am

Hello, leveling hunter as MM, using my Powerauras to maintain the priority "rotation", and I seem to do excellent, in fact, hardly sustainable, because my pet can't hold agro, dps.

The thing is, am I wasting my time trying to attune myself to MM, or should I just stick to Surv? I am the kind of player that will play the spec the way you would endgame, even while leveling, to get used to it early. I have a friend that hits up huge dps as Survival, but I am seeing something different on EJ. Not seeing EJ as Gospel, but at the same time, they have excellent, if in doubt, valid points.

So, MM, or Surv?
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Re: [Hunter MM] EJ lists MM as highest DPS endgame, but...

Postby Kelaan » Mon Aug 24, 2009 9:22 am

May I suggest http://forums.tkasomething.com/ ? That's a hunter-centric forum the way this is a paladin-centric one. They'll have much more input than most of us will.
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Re: [Hunter MM] EJ lists MM as highest DPS endgame, but...

Postby Kiorken » Mon Aug 24, 2009 9:28 am

Ack, thank you, I tried it, but its blocked here at work, I will have to try it when I get home.
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Re: [Hunter MM] EJ lists MM as highest DPS endgame, but...

Postby hoho » Mon Aug 24, 2009 9:33 am

Go BM with croc (bad attitude FTW) and aoe everything in sight from when you get volley to L80. MM can be highest at end-game but BM is vastly better for leveling.

I used this guy's advice on spec and it was easymode. I could take on 5-10 mobs at a time without worrying about death. Taking on 3 mobs 6 levels higher than me was also possible, though a bit time-consuming.
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Re: [Hunter MM] EJ lists MM as highest DPS endgame, but...

Postby kanst » Mon Aug 24, 2009 9:50 am

MM is the best end game dps, however it has some strict gearing requirements. For it to really shine you have to be at armor pen soft cap with one of the arp trinkets (mjolnirs or grim toll) while still mantaining a healthy amount of crit. For marks to be better you should really be running almost full Ulduar gear. When you first hit 80 and start with heroics and Naxx survival will be better.

Also BM is OP as hell for leveling, but if your goal is to become familiar with a spec thats your choice.

So my advice is, if you are going to gear up quickly (have a guild willing to carry you) and plan on raiding t9 quickly stick marks, if your going to slowly gear up and start in Naxx go Survival...I hope this helped
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Re: [Hunter MM] EJ lists MM as highest DPS endgame, but...

Postby Kiorken » Mon Aug 24, 2009 9:57 am

Thank you HoHo and Kanst, I will look into it. The link you posted, it lists spec and what not? Again, blocked. And Kanst, that makes sense, sort of like endgame raiding Warlocks back in BC that used Destro.
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Re: [Hunter MM] EJ lists MM as highest DPS endgame, but...

Postby Kelaan » Mon Aug 24, 2009 12:57 pm

You can level well as a hunter no matter the spec. Some claim they'd do fine with zero talents spent, naked. (Personally, I'd miss Scatter Shot tremendously. It's a nice get out of jail card.) Play whichever is most fun, and then as you get past 70 consider MM vs SV more seriously.
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Re: [Hunter MM] EJ lists MM as highest DPS endgame, but...

Postby Viycktor » Mon Aug 24, 2009 6:10 pm

I like leveling as survival.

I focus on the talents that make my big shots mana efficient. While AotV means you don't have to have much downtime, Survival can go nearly full tilt leveling with AotH for moar dps.

The only problem is getting a pet to hold aggro. I run with a tank pet whereas if I were BM, I'd probably run with a dps pet (durability).

But BM is probably the best/easiest. It just bored me to tears spamming steady shot. (Plus, on a PvP server, improved traps+wyvern sting+scatter shot+pet with charge can be pretty useful).
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Re: [Hunter MM] EJ lists MM as highest DPS endgame, but...

Postby Shoju » Tue Aug 25, 2009 7:47 am

From the time they gave Surv Black Arrow, I have been survival on my hunter. Like someone said, you have to be at the armor pen soft cap for MM to become the Best DPS spec.

Surv is more than adequate to level.

BM may be faster, but it's about the only thing that competes with leveling a paladin in non-interactivity.

You HAVE to use a tank pet as Surv or MM to even have a chance of it holding aggro. Even now, if I EXP shot something too early and get sill crits, I will pull aggro.
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Re: [Hunter MM] EJ lists MM as highest DPS endgame, but...

Postby uke » Tue Aug 25, 2009 12:06 pm

Main problem with leveling the same way you'll be raiding is that your needs in a raid are very different vs leveling:

1. Where a raid boss will usually be concentrated on beating on the tank, leaving you to pewpew at will, leveling mobs will be concentrated on beating on you. Survivalbility is more important leveling vs raiding.
2. Squeezing out every ounce of dps is not necessary for leveling.
3. Many raiding builds aren't efficient while leveling because a.) don't have the gear to take advantage of a 'raid spec' vs 'leveling spec' and b.) specs that are good for maximizing dps over a several minute fight go to waste fighting leveling mobs that die in 8 seconds. Hunter raiding tools like hunter's mark and serpent sting have little use vs. questing mobs, and are a waste of mana.
4. If you're on a PVP server, it is more necessary to equip yourself to survive a ganking attempt that raid builds do not have.

That being said, any hunter spec is fine for levelling, with BM being the most efficient in that your pet is a aggro-whore letting you pew pew at will and BW/TBW is perhaps the ultimate anti-ganker tool in the game.

As for myself, my hunter just dinged 75 last night. I'm hoping that with 3.3 and the improved pet scaling that BM is more viable in the near future. I'll probably go BM when I ding 80 regardless, being that 3.2 brought them up to a more viable level (even if they're still behind MM and Survival). Not sure where the 'no interactivity' perception comes from, as I aim for max efficiency in either rounding up a ton of mobs to volley down or sending my bear pet to one mob after another, looting the one I just killed while the bear whacks on something else, all the while maintaining an arcane, steadyx3, repeat rotation. Granted, it's fewer total buttons than MM, but it's hardly lolautoattack. That just takes too long.

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Re: [Hunter MM] EJ lists MM as highest DPS endgame, but...

Postby Shoju » Tue Aug 25, 2009 12:21 pm

I just never found BM to be that engaging. send pet, attack, round up lots of stuff, let pet get aggro, AoE... There just wasn't much to the spec for me to be interested in.
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Re: [Hunter MM] EJ lists MM as highest DPS endgame, but...

Postby uke » Tue Aug 25, 2009 12:40 pm

Shoju wrote:I just never found BM to be that engaging. send pet, attack, round up lots of stuff, let pet get aggro, AoE... There just wasn't much to the spec for me to be interested in.


Meh, I don't find it any less engaging than ret, which amounts to smashing a few buttons over and over. If I wanted complexity I'd bring my kitty druid out of mothballs (John effin Madden!). I tried raiding as an 80 kitty for a bit but got tired of it after a while, way too stressful. I honestly like the comparatively laid back style of a hunter more - sit back and pewpew as your pet eats face.
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Re: [Hunter MM] EJ lists MM as highest DPS endgame, but...

Postby Isetnefret » Tue Aug 25, 2009 2:46 pm

We had a kitty druid that raided with us for a while. Eventually he was about 1000 dps higher than our survival hunters. Then he literally spazzed the F out and quit WoW.
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Re: [Hunter MM] EJ lists MM as highest DPS endgame, but...

Postby Kelaan » Tue Aug 25, 2009 4:35 pm

Shoju wrote:I just never found BM to be that engaging. send pet, attack, round up lots of stuff, let pet get aggro, AoE... There just wasn't much to the spec for me to be interested in.


My main used to be a hunter. I was a fairly die-hard SV hunter for a while, and then tried BM out. It was ... different. I liked it. You still have many tools, but you can do things differently. I could still pull aggro from the pet easily, at the time, but rotating between Intimidation and misdirect, or just burning things with TBW, I could chain pull like a monster. Now that pet healing is buffed, it's even easier. I found that I really liked the flavor of having a cat that would go eat faces while I was looting things. (Pet attack + mend pet would lend me some time to loot and give the pet a threat lead. ;))

Others have pointed out that while leveling or even farming, things die too fast. Spec for burst damage, as most things will die in 3-4 shots anyways. Or so they say - I've yet to un-mothball my hunter properly. (For which I catch well deserved grief. :))
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Re: [Hunter MM] EJ lists MM as highest DPS endgame, but...

Postby fafhrd » Tue Aug 25, 2009 10:12 pm

kanst wrote:MM is the best end game dps, however it has some strict gearing requirements. For it to really shine you have to be at armor pen soft cap with one of the arp trinkets (mjolnirs or grim toll) while still mantaining a healthy amount of crit. For marks to be better you should really be running almost full Ulduar gear.


MM was definitely quite a bit better (i.e. several hundred dps) on single target fights even in good naxx/maly gear in early ulduar. They've buffed SV a bit in 3.2, but I'm fairly sure MM will still be better at those gear levels. But for someone freshly hitting 80 and doing Naxx/Sarth3D etc you're probably right, SV will be better. Especially if you're pugging to catch up on gear and can't count on JoW being provided. If doing heroics MM is particularly bad regardless of gear because of mana issues, unless you're able to regen/drink between pulls.

As for levelling, like many have said, there's no point trying to play like you're raiding while levelling, your target is just too different from a raid boss. The best you can do is find a set of keybinds that work well for you and get used to them. Pretty much everything else, from mana consumption to threat to attacks to use, to what order to use them in will be different.
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