[Frost DK] Dual Weilding

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[Frost DK] Dual Weilding

Postby andx » Wed Aug 12, 2009 6:43 am

Recently I was able to convince my girlfriend to play WoW. Unfortunately she rolled alliance on a server that i had no chars on because she wanted to start fresh. Well anyway she played while i raided for teh last couple weeks so i had to roll a dk to catch her. Now that dk is nearing 80 and i was curious if DW frost DKs are a viable spec for a fresh 80. Also i was curious, because i can not get on EJ at work, if there were any other sites with DW frost DK guides?

thanks
Andx
Maybe I just have a disease or an addiction to tanking, my gf says I'm a masochist I say I like it rough, either way I'm a tank and I can't escape it.
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Re: [Frost DK] Dual Weilding

Postby Bharun » Wed Aug 12, 2009 9:26 am

I would be interested in this as well. I am currently leveling a DK as Frost DW (and its working great) but how it will go at 80 is a mystery to me.

My work also blocks most sites so EJ is a no-go. I am just glad I can still get though to Maintankadin.
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Re: [Frost DK] Dual Weilding

Postby TzumaNew » Wed Aug 12, 2009 9:50 am

The main issue I see with DW Frost coming back (thankfully) for a new 80 is weapon selection. There are only a few slow melee dps 1handers available in the game, let alone to a non-raiding toon.

You can get a titansteel bonecrusher for 1hand, but youre pretty stuck after that. Your best bet is Heroic ToC for the other (assuming you can get it to drop.... >.< )

Until you have slow 1handers, I find that a 2h build supasses the damage of a DW build by several hundred DPS. Your DPS wont be "bad" with fast 1handers, but it wont be as good as a solid 2h build.

I ran a few tests after coming back from a break between DW-Frost using Split Greathammer and Widows Fury (both out of Naxx) vs. a 2h Unholy build with a titansteel (pulled mine out of the bank just to have a comparable weapon test). For the record, my favorite spec was DW-Frost before the nerf to DW several patches ago.

I was consistently 200dps higher using the 2h unholy build on a dummy and 5mans (since I just got back from break, I dont have much in the way of raidbosses to test on atm). I never rolled on the ulduar 1-handers, so I wasnt able to test with weapon scaling if this changes.

With 2 slow 1handers, the DW Frost build is very easily competable with all other specs. Its the FOTM spec given how much dps it puts out for the effort.
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Re: [Frost DK] Dual Weilding

Postby Kelaan » Wed Aug 12, 2009 11:02 am

How does DW frost compare to 2H frost? I haven't seen a lot about that, since everyone is going "zomg dual wieeeeeeeeld!". I've not really been inclined to buy heirloom 1H's for my DK, hehe, so I haven't played with it.
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Re: [Frost DK] Dual Weilding

Postby Elsie » Wed Aug 12, 2009 11:04 am

2H frost is dead in terms of competitiveness. The two builds for PvE dps are blood (with a good amount of armor pen) and DW Frost. Unholy is good at low gear levels, but at higher gear levels unholy gets complicated because obliterate outscales scourge strike and you might as well go for blood at that point.
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Re: [Frost DK] Dual Weilding

Postby andx » Wed Aug 12, 2009 12:20 pm

TzumaNew wrote: stuff

Hmmm you sound like you know your stuff better than I, should Improved icy talons be included and are there any raid specs that would allow me to be more desired even if my dps is a little lower? Are dw frost dks rare on other servers because there are only a handful on Coilfang Horde US and i like being different.
Maybe I just have a disease or an addiction to tanking, my gf says I'm a masochist I say I like it rough, either way I'm a tank and I can't escape it.
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Re: [Frost DK] Dual Weilding

Postby TzumaNew » Wed Aug 12, 2009 12:23 pm

Elsie wrote:2H frost is dead in terms of competitiveness. The two builds for PvE dps are blood (with a good amount of armor pen) and DW Frost. Unholy is good at low gear levels, but at higher gear levels unholy gets complicated because obliterate outscales scourge strike and you might as well go for blood at that point.
This is spot on, though Im actually digging 2h Unholy with an Obliterate build at the moment. I know itll get killed in an upcoming patch (since it completely negates SS) but im a sucker for soon to be dead specs apparently. Plus, I tank blood after 3.2.

Oh, and forgot about the tourney 1h from champion seals in my first post. Weapon speed > weapon dps if its not grossly different, for the DW build.
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Re: [Frost DK] Dual Weilding

Postby TzumaNew » Wed Aug 12, 2009 12:40 pm

andx wrote:
TzumaNew wrote: stuff

Hmmm you sound like you know your stuff better than I, should Improved icy talons be included and are there any raid specs that would allow me to be more desired even if my dps is a little lower? Are dw frost dks rare on other servers because there are only a handful on Coilfang Horde US and i like being different.
I still wouldnt tank DW, personally. It still holds the same penalties it always did. For that reason, id say theyre probably rare everywhere though some people are masochists.

From what Ive seen, I see more specific spec requests for guild recruitment leaning towards Unholy DKs - desired for raiding due to the ebon debuff, and its also the least-used tank tree, so it would jive a bit better with a DK tank in the group. Though most requests are still mainly "DPS" or "Tank" without a specific request, generally being focused more on the role and the players ability.
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Re: [Frost DK] Dual Weilding

Postby andx » Wed Aug 12, 2009 12:49 pm

@TzumaNew

I see. I will be using this char as a pure DPS at least until the tanks in my girlfriends guild start to frustrate me and i spec into it haha. So here's what i've gathered so far:

Get slow weapons
Unholy 2h is better until geared
It is different
the frost tree is built for DW


I'm curious about specs. do i spec into IIT or no, is the haste buff good for dks. what stats are good for a DW frost dk? i ask too many questions.

Thanks
Andx
Maybe I just have a disease or an addiction to tanking, my gf says I'm a masochist I say I like it rough, either way I'm a tank and I can't escape it.
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Re: [Frost DK] Dual Weilding

Postby Earantur » Wed Aug 12, 2009 3:39 pm

Spec IIT if your raid needs the buff.

Also, for starter gear the Titansteel Bonecrusher in the main hand and the Ebon Blade sword in the OH seems to work quite well for me.
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Re: [Frost DK] Dual Weilding

Postby Worldie » Thu Aug 13, 2009 3:44 am

DW tanking is fun! If anything, just cause female belf swing animations are full of win.

I can push around 6k TPS at the moment "unbuffed", and i really need a slow MH. If ToC could be arsed dropping that one :\
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Re: [Frost DK] Dual Weilding

Postby amh » Thu Aug 13, 2009 4:10 am

Wts lol-fiftyfour-expertise?!-set :)
I used to play a paladin.
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Re: [Frost DK] Dual Weilding

Postby daemonym » Thu Aug 13, 2009 2:08 pm

strange bug i've noticed while DW with my dk, when i hit blood strike it doesn't always turn into a death rune as it's supposed to, anybody else notice this? and yes i have it talented to be 100%. as far as dps goes, it's totally OP. i'm pushing out 6k dps. here's what i'm using now. my only real question is if 2pc tier 7/8 is better than 4pc t7 considering the rp issues. also of note, is threat is srs bsns with this spec, hence my taking 3/3 subversion. i pulled off an uld geared pally single target half way through a fight so i think it's needed.

http://chardev.org/?template=226486

link to spec:
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#jcZG0exIbczf0chzAofM0hxM:kauM0m

eventually i'll be getting a second of the 1h mace i have, t8 chest, emblem gloves, and if god willing bandits insig, which to date i have never seen drop ironically (seen grim toll 3 times though since i started running 25 naxx).
Again. What grim vision this? Blood stained tomb, beer cans, and piss. This. Is no life...for a god.

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Re: [Frost DK] Dual Weilding

Postby Gracerath » Fri Aug 14, 2009 6:32 am

Be sure you're not actually missing a blood strike somehow (dodge most likely or attacking on the move and the mob is slightly out of range when you hit blood strike). I'll be going through my rotation and not notice that a blood strike missed (not quite expertise capped anymore) and when it comes time to spam obliterates, I'm left with a death rune and a blood rune.

The threat is indeed pretty retarded which sent me back to 3/3 subversion as well. Luckily 3/3 subversion isn't much difference than 3/3 blood caked blade so its an easy talent switch for almost no loss (and some theorycraft seems to suggest subversion comes out on top). If you're set on keeping points in blood caked blade, you can take points from killing machine also with little loss.

I'm not sure I'd call it OP. I am still behind rogues and feral druids by a good chunk though I was able to keep up with our feral druid for the most part in our latest 10 man by within ~300dps when normally she does 600+ more than I do. Of course feral dps is seemingly considered OP too so who knows :P Also finally being able to utilize my ulduar gear is making dps go up. (2x Malice > 1x BoH)

Anyhow, unless you're trying to min/max yourself at every possible level, just go by preference. Sure DW frost may not be great with lower 1hers that may be fast but if the difference is only 200dps when you're doing 3k or more, (just pulling numbers out of my bottom, here) big deal. I love the Killing Machine > Rime > Howling Blast dynamic too much to be any other spec.

EDIT: Just did a quick browse of the dk dw thread at EJ, seems there is an issue as you describe that was a result as a hotfix to pestilence giving 2 death runes instead of 1. Seems like you can only get 1 death rune every 1.5 seconds or so. If you run in UP, you'll have that problem. I didn't notice anything cause I run in blood presence.
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Re: [Frost DK] Dual Weilding

Postby Splug » Tue Aug 18, 2009 1:49 pm

Blood tap also does strange things with your death runes.

The parry-haste effect on dual wield tanking isn't as crippling as people make it out to be. From the wmo's I've posted elsewhere, running a pair of tanking weapons actually reduces incoming damage by more than parry haste increases it.

I don't see any reason dw frost would be harder to play than any other spec at an early level. The only problem would be meeting defense requirements without stoneskin gargoyle.

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