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[Holy - PVE] Mana issues

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[Holy - PVE] Mana issues

Postby BubbaBill » Mon Aug 10, 2009 12:09 pm

Any number crunchers out there know the value ratio for MP5 and Crit when HL spamming with the changes to 3.2? I ran H. ToC the other day and actually went OOM. My holy set was put together in 3.1 and was heavy on the crit with only a bit of MP5 on it. So the question is x MP5 = y Crit when using mostly HL? I took a look over at EJ but couldn't find the math for it there.
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Re: [Holy - PVE] Mana issues

Postby Isetnefret » Mon Aug 10, 2009 1:27 pm

For what it's worth, your armory link in your signature didn't work for me.
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Re: [Holy - PVE] Mana issues

Postby Isetnefret » Mon Aug 10, 2009 1:28 pm

Also, I cannot find the thread you were talking about on EJ, but I seem to recall it doing the opposite conversion, IE:

x crit = y mp5.


For some reason, I want to say their conclusion was to stack int, but now I can't find the thread you are referring to.
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Re: [Holy - PVE] Mana issues

Postby BubbaBill » Mon Aug 10, 2009 1:36 pm

hmmm will check the link when I'm not at work. As for the threat at EJ I said I looked and was not able to find any there either that's why I thought one of our resident theory crafters might have found it somewhere or crunched the numbers. I had heard stack int too which is fine when gemming but more concerned with when I have 2 pieces of gear to choose from one with crit and one with MP5 how to determine which is better for longevity. Throughput is fine and I mostly only heal 5 mans but we chain pull so don't want to be stopping to drink. Crit heals are mostly overhealling so I don't care about it for a HPS point of view just the mana return.
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Re: [Holy - PVE] Mana issues

Postby Earantur » Mon Aug 10, 2009 7:39 pm

MP5 is pretty much a better stat for regen than crit. Intellect is better than either.

If you're going OOM, are you meleeing at all? Using the EoH Libram? Which Tier gear? SoW Glyph?
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Re: [Holy - PVE] Mana issues

Postby Nemuria » Tue Aug 11, 2009 3:04 am

The 3rd phase in ToC needs HL bombing so keep mana for this kind of phase. You need to keep things up with FoL+Beacon and cast HL on spikes.

On former heroics I don't see much change. Before 3.2 mana didn't go below 40%-50% while chain pulling. Just paying more attention on wasted cast and cooldown and things are fine. I have been mostly tanking lately and while healers need to regen sometimes they still can pull with few mana.
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Re: [Holy - PVE] Mana issues

Postby Viycktor » Tue Aug 11, 2009 5:24 pm

I've been reading up on getting my holy spec fixed and read through the EJ thread... but I've been wondering the same thing. (I've been uber lucky in getting healing plate drops lately)

As for gemming and enchants, crit is no longer the way to go. Thought some people seem to still prefer it as a throughput stat. +spell power is now the throughput stat of choice (haste, of course, is invaluable and difficult to quantify), with +mp5 being the regen stat.

Intel is a dual stat as it serves as a 'regen' stat with divine plea and also just increasing your mana pool and providing a bit of crit for throughput.

But I haven't done any extensive testing... I was just trying to figure out what gems should go in what sockets for my new gear without having healed in forever. ;)
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Re: [Holy - PVE] Mana issues

Postby Earantur » Tue Aug 11, 2009 5:52 pm

Viycktor wrote:I've been reading up on getting my holy spec fixed and read through the EJ thread... but I've been wondering the same thing. (I've been uber lucky in getting healing plate drops lately)

As for gemming and enchants, crit is no longer the way to go. Thought some people seem to still prefer it as a throughput stat. +spell power is now the throughput stat of choice (haste, of course, is invaluable and difficult to quantify), with +mp5 being the regen stat.

Intel is a dual stat as it serves as a 'regen' stat with divine plea and also just increasing your mana pool and providing a bit of crit for throughput.

But I haven't done any extensive testing... I was just trying to figure out what gems should go in what sockets for my new gear without having healed in forever. ;)

Haste is far more effective a throughput stat than SP, especially after the Light's Grace nerf.
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Re: [Holy - PVE] Mana issues

Postby blkthunder » Tue Aug 11, 2009 6:10 pm

The new regen strat seems to be going for improved Sacred Shield and FoL. Stacking SP and Haste w/SoL glyph to get more throughput for better raid healing while keeping the tank up with FoL spam.

holy light spam was severly nerfed with the illum nerf. in order to combat this, Im parking myself with the melee and still bombing holy lights (for raid heals now since the OP bacon has the tank covered) but using 'esc' stopcasting to help with mana regen all while having auto attack going on the boss with SoW up. This used to be my strat in mana starving situations, but now its my strat for everything. Remember, if its safe for your melee, its safe for you. Just watch for silences.
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Re: [Holy - PVE] Mana issues

Postby Corpsicle » Wed Aug 12, 2009 1:48 am

I wasn't having any problems with mana tonight when I healed the 25 man Northrend Beasts encounter, even after half the raid died and a DPS DK had to pick up the last of the three Bosses and tank it for the last 20% or so. Beacon MT, SS on something, roll flash hots on anything with a sacred shield, judge light every now and then, flash spam on raid with holy lights when they will either prevent tank death or be effective healing on the raid member they are directly landing on OR provide needed aoe healing through Holy Light Glyph. I did have to use Divine Plea more, and if I hadn't been using Arcane Torrent, Divine Illumination, Divine Favor, I'd have been in a worse situation. I did mana pot, towards the end when it all went downhill (someone did not run away from charge fast enough of course, and the hunter that was alive didn't tranq shot quite fast enough) but I had mana left over after we won so perhaps that was unneccessary.

Actually, with the new beacon I out healed our holy priest and resto druid, both also raid healing. I have never done that before in a 25 man raid - they aren't slouches. The changes to beacon of light specifically make a paladin quite powerful now, and the illumination changes don't really seem too big a deal, provided you know how to manage your mana and have some mp5 gear sitting in the bank to slap on. Being able to sling around extremely fast holy lights and flash of lights, while still healing the MT is a lot of effective HPS. Cancel casting Holy Light is of course your friend, now more than ever.

I'd almost expect to see some changes, potentially more nerfs, come to Holy in the next few months only I don't know if I'm being pessimistic. Considering I'm not the greatest healer, I can imagine what a well geared holy paladin with more experience and familliarity with the spec could do using the new/improved tools.
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Re: [Holy - PVE] Mana issues

Postby Candiru » Wed Aug 12, 2009 8:25 am

Note that SoW is procing off judgement now, so judge the boss every chance you get to regen some mana. (Or better yet, melee it.) This will more than make up for the illumination nerf for anything but HolyLight spam.

You can also get the PvP +300 spellpower for FoL libram for a few arena points and honor (you need 700 rating, but you can get that instantly from being invited to a team above 1k rating without playing a single game with them.)
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Re: [Holy - PVE] Mana issues

Postby Corpsicle » Wed Aug 12, 2009 9:06 am

Candiru wrote:You can also get the PvP +300 spellpower for FoL libram for a few arena points and honor (you need 700 rating, but you can get that instantly from being invited to a team above 1k rating without playing a single game with them.)


Is this only once arena season 7 starts? And is it possible then to farm the arena points on a 'bad' team, then get an invite to a team with a high enough rating and go buy the libram?
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