Consecration Idea [Multi-Spec]

Ret, Holy, PVP, etc

Moderators: Fridmarr, Worldie, Aergis, Baelor

Consecration Idea [Multi-Spec]

Postby Zakkarai » Wed Jul 29, 2009 11:41 am

I've had an idea rolling around in my head for quite some time, and it's something I would enjoy some feedback and refinement on before I start championing it to anyone in the development team that will listen to me. Since it affects holy as well as retribution, in addition to protection, I thought that here would be the best place to put the topic.

Consecration (current)
Consecrates the land beneath the Paladin, doing $X Holy damage over 10 sec to enemies who enter the area.

Consecration (proposed)
Consecrates the ground targeted by the Paladin, doing $X Holy damage every sec to enemies that remain in the area and healing friendly targets within the area $Y every sec, for 10 sec.

Unstated change would be an instantaneous tick as soon as the effect is deployed, ala Death and Decay. The healing value, $Y, would ideally be independent of $X, with a stronger SP component than an AP one (if it had an AP component at all). It would be deployed via a grenade-style "throw" ala the Death and Decay ability.

This would provide a number of utility benefits to multiple specs, including giving Retribution a fire-and-forget ranged AOE like Death Knights have with Death and Decay, provide Protection paladins with an instant pickup that they can throw down on spawn points (again, like D&D), and give Holy paladins that degree of AOE healing that they presently lack. Moreover, it would do it with a re-tuning of an existing ability rather than the introduction of a new ability.
Zakkarai
 
Posts: 39
Joined: Tue Oct 23, 2007 7:21 am

Re: Consecration Idea [Multi-Spec]

Postby dmok » Wed Jul 29, 2009 11:43 am

I like consecrate. I do not want D&D, with new healing powers or not.
There ain't no pirate like a Mead Hall Pirate

Mead Hall Pirates - The Scryers US
Dmor: 80 Prot Paladin | Dmok: 80 MM Hunter | Dmos: 80 Disc Priest | Dmoz: 80 Unholy DK
dmok
 
Posts: 972
Joined: Thu Apr 24, 2008 6:49 am
Location: The Scryers

Re: Consecration Idea [Multi-Spec]

Postby Zakkarai » Wed Jul 29, 2009 11:53 am

dmok wrote:I like consecrate. I do not want D&D, with new healing powers or not.


D&D presently behaves exactly like Consecrate save for its instant ticking and greatly increased control. I tank (and DPS) as both a DK and a Paladin, in T8 content, and when I want my D&D to approximate a consecrate, I click under my feet when I cast it.
Zakkarai
 
Posts: 39
Joined: Tue Oct 23, 2007 7:21 am

Re: Consecration Idea [Multi-Spec]

Postby Nikachelle » Wed Jul 29, 2009 12:03 pm

If consecration turns into a click and place method, I'm quitting the game.

It's a neat idea, but I don't want it.
User avatar
Nikachelle
Maintankadonor
 
Posts: 11005
Joined: Mon Mar 23, 2009 10:39 am
Location: Toronto, Canada

Re: Consecration Idea [Multi-Spec]

Postby Zakkarai » Wed Jul 29, 2009 12:11 pm

Nikachelle wrote:If consecration turns into a click and place method, I'm quitting the game.

It's a neat idea, but I don't want it.


Is it really that different for you? I have no trouble making D&D behave like a much more useful consecrate when I need it to, on top of the ability to throw it down wherever it's needed.
Zakkarai
 
Posts: 39
Joined: Tue Oct 23, 2007 7:21 am

Re: Consecration Idea [Multi-Spec]

Postby Nikachelle » Wed Jul 29, 2009 1:02 pm

Considering I don't use my mouse to move while in combat, yes this is a bit of an issue. It forces me to remove my hands from my keyboard to reach the mouse to place it. I was pretty pissed off when I started DK tanking and discovered I had to manually place DnD.

But, I guess that's my own problem.
User avatar
Nikachelle
Maintankadonor
 
Posts: 11005
Joined: Mon Mar 23, 2009 10:39 am
Location: Toronto, Canada

Re: Consecration Idea [Multi-Spec]

Postby mandm413 » Wed Jul 29, 2009 1:19 pm

I think adding a healing component to consecration would make it overpowered for protection spec, we already make very good tanks, we already heal ourselves and the group with judgement of light. Why would you want another tank when a tankadin tanks great and heals the melee group (even a little) with consecration. Espicially after 3.2 where we are getting even more buffs to tanking.

Also consecration already has a second component talented in holy (I am pretty sure) to allow anyone standing in it to not be silenced? Someone who plays holy more than I do would have to verifiy if I am remembering right but I am pretty sure.

Blizzard tends to break things before they fix them I would leave this one alone personally.
Image
mandm413
 
Posts: 97
Joined: Tue Nov 13, 2007 3:15 pm

Re: Consecration Idea [Multi-Spec]

Postby dmok » Wed Jul 29, 2009 1:24 pm

Zakkarai wrote:
dmok wrote:I like consecrate. I do not want D&D, with new healing powers or not.


D&D presently behaves exactly like Consecrate save for its instant ticking and greatly increased control. I tank (and DPS) as both a DK and a Paladin, in T8 content, and when I want my D&D to approximate a consecrate, I click under my feet when I cast it.

It is my understanding that D&D also has <100% possible uptime, which is loses as compensation for the "place anywhere" feature of it. I like the fact that I can maintain as close to 100% uptime as I wish in AoE situations.

I find it also better fits the idea of a paladin to have consecrate almost as a "defensive" ability, turning the very ground beneath your feet to your will. Being able to "throw" it somewhere else is more of an offensive ability, which *does* fit the DK rather well.
There ain't no pirate like a Mead Hall Pirate

Mead Hall Pirates - The Scryers US
Dmor: 80 Prot Paladin | Dmok: 80 MM Hunter | Dmos: 80 Disc Priest | Dmoz: 80 Unholy DK
dmok
 
Posts: 972
Joined: Thu Apr 24, 2008 6:49 am
Location: The Scryers

Re: Consecration Idea [Multi-Spec]

Postby sherck » Thu Jul 30, 2009 6:01 am

My 2 cents is that I love the concept of Consecrate having a healing component...and I do NOT want it throwable.

I want the mechanics of my Holy Paladin to be that I am healing from the front lines. I want to be a combat medic.

I want my melee strikes to heal my nearby friends...
I want my Consecrate to both harm my enemies and heal my friends...
I want my Judgements to harm enemies OR to heal friends if cast on them (just like Holy Shock does)...
I want my Shield of Rightousness to harm my enemies OR heal my friends if cast on them (just like Holy Shock does)...
I want to be THE Pally spec that the Judgement of Light debuff works best for; I am the healer after all...
I want most of my heals to be instances so that I can cast them in the middle of combat...
I want my utility spells to be instance (well, they already are :D )...
I want to be DIFFERENT than the other casters who are standing back in the back, admiring their pretty faces in their mirrors and ocassionally waving their hands (or tree limbs) in the air to cast a heal. I want to be in the thick of things...

I am wearing Plate and a shield for goodness sake, not a fricking dress like the Priest (gender does not matter). I want to do my job from the front lines in the heat of battle, wielding my sword for Faction and Warchief!

If Blizzard had that concept for a Holy Paladin, I would be back to playing him in a heartbeat.

But instead, I get the concept that my job is the heal the MT, not by actually casting a heal on him, but by putting a Beacon on him and healing EVERYONE ELSE in the raid with my glyphed Holy Light. With the 3.2 change, unless you want a weak SS/FoL HoT on the MT, there is ZERO reason to EVER cast a heal actually on the MT. And even with that, you are throwing a single FoL on the tank once every 12 seconds to keep it up. EVERY OTHER HEAL you cast is going on someone else. What is the logic in that?

I wish Holy Paladins were combat medics instead of....what they are. Which is why I rolled a Priest. If I am going to be forced to stand in the back, hoping to avoid the enemy, while doing my healing, I am by goodness going to wear a dress while doing it!! :mrgreen:

Cheers,

[EDIT: Sorry for the Holy spec rant. When I read "heal" and Consecrate, I immediatly though of it as another tool in a combat medics toolbag. I was not thinking about its use with Prot/Ret. If implemented with a healing component, I would want it to be turned on only with a deep Holy talent unreachable by Prot or Ret. This takes away the arguement of OP for Prot.)
Last edited by sherck on Thu Jul 30, 2009 6:06 am, edited 1 time in total.
sherck
 
Posts: 1475
Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2008 7:57 am

Re: Consecration Idea [Multi-Spec]

Postby sherck » Thu Jul 30, 2009 6:03 am

mandm413 wrote:Also consecration already has a second component talented in holy (I am pretty sure) to allow anyone standing in it to not be silenced? Someone who plays holy more than I do would have to verifiy if I am remembering right but I am pretty sure.


Nope, you are thinking about our Aura of Concentration. We have zero additional synergy with Consecrate.

Cheers,
sherck
 
Posts: 1475
Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2008 7:57 am

Re: Consecration Idea [Multi-Spec]

Postby Morendin » Thu Jul 30, 2009 6:17 am

Cons is also part of our single-target rotation for both ret and prot...manually targeting it every time would:
a)be loving annoying
b)introduce lag into 969
Cons should not be targetable...it SHOULD, however, have an instant tick!

EDIT:
cons reducing silence time would be cool, but very difficult to balance.
Morendin
 
Posts: 177
Joined: Thu May 10, 2007 7:19 am

Re: Consecration Idea [Multi-Spec]

Postby mandm413 » Thu Jul 30, 2009 10:00 am

sherck wrote:My 2 cents is that I love the concept of Consecrate having a healing component...and I do NOT want it throwable.

I want the mechanics of my Holy Paladin to be that I am healing from the front lines. I want to be a combat medic.

I want my melee strikes to heal my nearby friends...
I want my Consecrate to both harm my enemies and heal my friends...
I want my Judgements to harm enemies OR to heal friends if cast on them (just like Holy Shock does)...
I want my Shield of Rightousness to harm my enemies OR heal my friends if cast on them (just like Holy Shock does)...
I want to be THE Pally spec that the Judgement of Light debuff works best for; I am the healer after all...
I want most of my heals to be instances so that I can cast them in the middle of combat...
I want my utility spells to be instance (well, they already are :D )...
I want to be DIFFERENT than the other casters who are standing back in the back, admiring their pretty faces in their mirrors and ocassionally waving their hands (or tree limbs) in the air to cast a heal. I want to be in the thick of things...

I am wearing Plate and a shield for goodness sake, not a fricking dress like the Priest (gender does not matter). I want to do my job from the front lines in the heat of battle, wielding my sword for Faction and Warchief!

If Blizzard had that concept for a Holy Paladin, I would be back to playing him in a heartbeat.

But instead, I get the concept that my job is the heal the MT, not by actually casting a heal on him, but by putting a Beacon on him and healing EVERYONE ELSE in the raid with my glyphed Holy Light. With the 3.2 change, unless you want a weak SS/FoL HoT on the MT, there is ZERO reason to EVER cast a heal actually on the MT. And even with that, you are throwing a single FoL on the tank once every 12 seconds to keep it up. EVERY OTHER HEAL you cast is going on someone else. What is the logic in that?

I wish Holy Paladins were combat medics instead of....what they are. Which is why I rolled a Priest. If I am going to be forced to stand in the back, hoping to avoid the enemy, while doing my healing, I am by goodness going to wear a dress while doing it!! :mrgreen:

Cheers,

[EDIT: Sorry for the Holy spec rant. When I read "heal" and Consecrate, I immediatly though of it as another tool in a combat medics toolbag. I was not thinking about its use with Prot/Ret. If implemented with a healing component, I would want it to be turned on only with a deep Holy talent unreachable by Prot or Ret. This takes away the arguement of OP for Prot.)


I would be fine with this for holy pallies only so make it a deep talented option in the holy tree.
Image
mandm413
 
Posts: 97
Joined: Tue Nov 13, 2007 3:15 pm

Re: Consecration Idea [Multi-Spec]

Postby Dorvan » Thu Jul 30, 2009 11:59 am

Morendin wrote:Cons should not be targetable...it SHOULD, however, have an instant tick!


^^ This
Image

WHAT WOULD BEST DESCRIBE YOUR PERSONALITY?
Moonlight Sonata Techno Remix
Scriggle - 85 Fire Mage
Fizzmore - 81 Mut Rogue
Adorania - 80 Disc Priest
User avatar
Dorvan
Maintankadonor
 
Posts: 8462
Joined: Wed Apr 04, 2007 3:28 pm

Re: Consecration Idea [Multi-Spec]

Postby Proudfoot » Thu Jul 30, 2009 4:08 pm

I'd be all on board for making Holy paladins a melee healer but I don't think it would work in PVP.
This would require a whole rewrite of the Paladin Holy tree and I can come up with ways to make it interesting and work for PVE I just can't see it ever working for PVP.
I want my Shield of Rightousness to harm my enemies OR heal my friends if cast on them (just like Holy Shock does)...

I can't see bashing my friend in the face with a shield as a comforting or healing action.
I want my Judgements to harm enemies OR to heal friends if cast on them (just like Holy Shock does)...

Again... you're judging your friends? Self righteous much LOL? I understand what you're saying it just doesn't work thematically.

Here are a few ideas...

Give a deep Holy talent that grants JoL an additional component similar to "Mark of Blood" that DK's have (Heal target after each blow). This would help make JoL the defacto judgement for Holy. (Might be OP for soloing though)

For Consecrate, give it an initial pulse and create a talent deep in the Holy tree that will allow your consecrate to heal raid members who stand in it. They could call it "Holy Ground" or something. Also, since Ret AOE dps got nerfed with the latest PTR build, have a talent in Ret to increase it's damage and allow it to crit like other AOE's. At the very least the initial pulse should have a chance to crit.
Dear Blizzard, Paper is fine but Rock needs to be nerfed.
Sincerely, Scissors
User avatar
Proudfoot
 
Posts: 320
Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2008 1:40 am

Re: Consecration Idea [Multi-Spec]

Postby Earantur » Thu Jul 30, 2009 4:54 pm

Holy paladins already are melee healers.

Seal of Wisdom ftw.
Earantur
 
Posts: 204
Joined: Wed Apr 08, 2009 8:56 am

Next

Return to Off-specs & Other Classes

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

Who is online

In total there is 1 user online :: 0 registered, 0 hidden and 1 guest (based on users active over the past 5 minutes)
Most users ever online was 380 on Tue Oct 14, 2008 6:28 pm

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest