[Ret] PTR SoV changes

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Re: [Ret] PTR SoV changes

Postby Candiru » Sat Aug 01, 2009 1:36 am

According to the EJ thread, ret SoV interacts with Prot Tanks in a very beneficial way.

Imagine you are tanking Emalon 25, both adds and boss. You have been tab-targetting and HotR so you have a 5-stack on every mob.

The ret paladin has a 5-stack on Emalon, but 0 stacks on the other mobs. When (targetting emalon) he presses DS, this is what happens:

Divine storm hits Emalon for X
SoV proc hits Emalon for 0.33X
Divine storm hits mobA for X
SoV proc hits Emalon for 0.33X
Divine storm hits mobB for X
SoV proc hits Emalon for 0.33X
Divine storm hits mobC for X
SoV proc hits Emalon for 0.33X

If a mob has 0 stacks of the ret's SoV, its uses the highest stack already on the mob. In this case the prot's 5/5 stack. Divine storm is also still "throwing" all the SoV procs onto your current target.

Not sure this is intended behaviour though!
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Re: [Ret] PTR SoV changes

Postby majiben » Sat Aug 01, 2009 2:20 am

I Think you misunderstood that the were talking about. Other paladin's SoV DoT has no affect on your direct damage proc. I think that poster was remarking on how DS can throw damage from auxiliary adds onto a far away but main target for each add with a stack. The error I think they were making was that they were thinking that HotR's DoT stacking would be needed to effectively test this easily but forgot that HotR and DS are mutually exclusive in one build.

If for some reason other paladins stacks were affecting another's direct damage proc then that would be a massive bug that could have huge repercussions. Essentially you would keep adds alive on purpose and stack ret to completely trivialize burst encounters and even dps races when possible.
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Re: [Ret] PTR SoV changes

Postby Candiru » Sat Aug 01, 2009 3:03 am

I just conducted a quick test of how Seal of Vengeance interacts with other SoV stacks from different Paladins.

* If you currently do not have a Holy Vengeance debuff applied to the target, SoV's proc potency is based off of the highest current stack.
* If you currently do have at least one stack of Holy Vengeance, SoV's proc potency is based off of your stack.


This has no negative effects, only slight positive gains. Upon swapping to a target tanked by a Prot Paladin, you might gain a full damage SoV proc before your own Holy Vengeance debuff is applied. In multi-target situations where a pack of mobs lives for 30~ or more seconds, you'll potentially gain extra SoV proc(s) on Divine Storm (Elemental wave in Freya or Kologarn, for instance).

Basically, a Prot Paladin is a slight, situational DPS upgrade for us in the way a Unholy DK is for a SPriest, or an Arms Warrior is for a Feral Drood (probably not to the tune of the same DPS value, but same concept).


From the EJ thread. So its looks like its poorly implemented at the moment. This can't be intended behaviour, but then neither is stacking stoneskin and devo.

Having a prot palaidn holding debuffed adds near ret paladins will be a huge DPS boost to the rets. Could hold your two pummelers near XT to get a decent boost on hard mode etc.
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Re: [Ret] PTR SoV changes

Postby PsiVen » Sat Aug 01, 2009 8:46 am

Well, that's already the case. It just gives the Ret an even bigger buff -- or rather, allows the previous OP AoEness to continue as long as a Prot is involved.

I wouldn't be surprised if they leave it this way, and it's nice for us, but having two specs of the same class synergize that well doesn't belong in the new design paradigm.
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Re: [Ret] PTR SoV changes

Postby Candiru » Sat Aug 01, 2009 9:04 am

At the moment the rets AoE with SoB and DS, while with the new SoV and DS all the extra DS procs will damage their TARGET, not the mob with the SoV 5-stack.

This means their SINGLE target DPS will be much higher when there are 3 debuffed mobs lying around next to the boss, which is a bit odd.
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Re: [Ret] PTR SoV changes

Postby Morendin » Sat Aug 01, 2009 12:06 pm

I would expect the instant damage proc being redirected to your current target to be the bug they'd care about, not SoV counting another paladin's stack if you have nothing.
The redirection, last I heard, ignores range and LoS, so I can imagine a number of possible exploits via ToT and /cast{target=focus} Judgement/CS/HotR/ShoR macros to attack(and build aggro on, for prot) things you're not supposed to interact with from where you are. It would require absurd coordination, but I can imagine using several ret paladins who stay outside of the brainroom in P2, targeting tentacles off designated people and triggering procs against corruptor/constrictors to create an otherwise mathmatically impossible time-to-brain-room. Even an average guild that's not capable of absurdly complex targeting assignments and memorizing specific tentacles for each person in all three scenarios, just having 1-3 ret paladins /assisting the brain room healer(who can target stuff but not burst it down in 2-3 GCDs) could drastically shorten the time-to-freeze and gain an unintended advantage.
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Re: [Ret] PTR SoV changes

Postby Candiru » Sat Aug 01, 2009 2:42 pm

Yeah, have a prot paladin debuffing the corrupters and a ret DSing with a macro would allow some extra DPS to clear the brain room, as well as extra DPS on the brain.

I wonder what happens if you target a friendly mob / have no target when you use DS, does it damage them, does it damage the correct mobs or does it automatically target something else?
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Re: [Ret] PTR SoV changes

Postby Elsie » Sun Aug 02, 2009 6:51 am

This means their SINGLE target DPS will be much higher when there are 3 debuffed mobs lying around next to the boss, which is a bit odd.

Kind of OP for Alone in the Darkness or 1 Light in the Darkness (yogg hard modes).
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Re: [Ret] PTR SoV changes

Postby Smartos » Sun Aug 02, 2009 8:03 am

I doubt a prot paladin will always hit the same mobs with his HotR that the ret hits, too.
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Re: [Ret] PTR SoV changes

Postby Joanadark » Sun Aug 02, 2009 11:28 am

Nobody expects the holy Inquisition!

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Re: [Ret] PTR SoV changes

Postby Elsie » Mon Aug 03, 2009 5:06 am

Smartos wrote:I doubt a prot paladin will always hit the same mobs with his HotR that the ret hits, too.

I doubt a prot paladin will ever not have a stack up on at least 3 targets he's tanking on that fight.
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Re: [Ret] PTR SoV changes

Postby andx » Mon Aug 03, 2009 8:44 am

Elsie wrote:
Smartos wrote:I doubt a prot paladin will always hit the same mobs with his HotR that the ret hits, too.

I doubt a prot paladin will ever not have a stack up on at least 3 targets he's tanking on that fight.


Dude protties are going to have sick tank dps
Maybe I just have a disease or an addiction to tanking, my gf says I'm a masochist I say I like it rough, either way I'm a tank and I can't escape it.
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Re: [Ret] PTR SoV changes

Postby Isetnefret » Mon Aug 03, 2009 10:58 am

Brilliant......simply brilliant....

That totally solve's the retribution OP burst damage issue...
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Re: [Ret] PTR SoV changes

Postby andx » Mon Aug 03, 2009 12:18 pm

Isetnefret wrote:Brilliant......simply brilliant....

That totally solve's the retribution OP burst damage issue...

This is very vague can you please clarify?
Maybe I just have a disease or an addiction to tanking, my gf says I'm a masochist I say I like it rough, either way I'm a tank and I can't escape it.
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Re: [Ret] PTR SoV changes

Postby Kelaan » Mon Aug 03, 2009 1:58 pm

I believe it was sarcasm. It seems like ret's SoV procs, when proccing on multiple things, are all doing damage to the ret's current target, or something -- which would be a lot of burst on the single target in the middle of an AOE. I may be misinterpreting that, though.
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