[RET PVE] Low DPS/Itemizaton issues

Ret, Holy, PVP, etc

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[RET PVE] Low DPS/Itemizaton issues

Postby andx » Tue Jul 21, 2009 3:04 pm

Hi,
I've played a tank since vanilla but due to my guild having a couple really nice tanks for our uld10 runs I'm rolling ret.

http://wow-heroes.com/index.php?zone=us ... e=Al%C3%AE

I am using the FCFS rotation but I still can not manage to break my piddly 3.2k dps buffed in Ulduar10.

A.) I know i am grossly over the Hit cap
B.) I know i need to get my t7 2 piece bonus

What else will help me achieve the dps i should be doing?

Thanks in advance,
Andx
Last edited by andx on Wed Jul 22, 2009 1:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Maybe I just have a disease or an addiction to tanking, my gf says I'm a masochist I say I like it rough, either way I'm a tank and I can't escape it.
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Re: [RET PVE] Why am I only pulling 3.2k dps?

Postby andx » Tue Jul 21, 2009 5:47 pm

OK so I dropped my shoulders for Heroes for now ( i need 20 EoV's for t7.5) pulling a bit more dps 3.5k now. I still feel like i'm missing something or i'm doing something wrong. :/ lemme know if you can help
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Re: [RET PVE] Why am I only pulling 3.2k dps?

Postby rodos » Wed Jul 22, 2009 2:31 am

In general your Ret set looks better than mine (http://profiler.wowhead.com/?profile=11215286). I have less AP, but a bit more crit and expertise (human racial helps). I believe this set gets me somewhere around 3.7k in 10-man. I'm pretty sure it could go higher if I was a better player (high latency, bad reflexes).

First, consider your raid composition. Ret is very sensitive to buffs and debuffs. Mob armor reduction, str+agi from DK or shaman and the various other melee buffs can have a big effect.

Next, get some log parses and check things like miss rates (including parry and dodge), and the effective cooldowns of your abilities. Make sure you're not delaying your high priority abilities (i.e. CS) too much. I recently downloaded Wow Log Parser http://wow.curseforge.com/addons/wlp/ for off-line log parsing and found it quite helpful.
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Re: [RET PVE] Why am I only pulling 3.2k dps?

Postby Fedaykin98 » Wed Jul 22, 2009 6:00 am

I'd buy Greatness at your earliest opportunity. :)
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Re: [RET PVE] Why am I only pulling 3.2k dps?

Postby andx » Wed Jul 22, 2009 9:16 am

Haha i would too. I'm a little foggy as to how to record a Parse. also should i glyph into exo or concecrate? Should i get the T7.5 legs or the shoulders? currently the fcfs i'm using is CS>judge>DS>exo>concecrate.
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Re: [RET PVE] Why am I only pulling 3.2k dps?

Postby Lore » Wed Jul 22, 2009 9:24 am

What fight are you talking about? DPS isn't something you can quantify in a general sense.
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Re: [RET PVE] Why am I only pulling 3.2k dps?

Postby andx » Wed Jul 22, 2009 9:57 am

Lore wrote:What fight are you talking about? DPS isn't something you can quantify in a general sense.

I'm talking about Patch type fights. Stand and blows. I understand that on mobile fights there will be a decrease in dps but I feel like I my itemization is out of sync or something.

Thanks,
Andx

:::EDIT::: Essentially I'm asking for an overview of Itemization for Ret pallies.
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Re: [RET PVE] Why am I only pulling 3.2k dps?

Postby Baelor » Wed Jul 22, 2009 10:29 am

andx wrote::::EDIT::: Essentially I'm asking for an overview of Itemization for Ret pallies.

Hit cap
Stack strength
Don't go past 26 expertise skill
Buff up
Stand behind mob
Roll face on buttons

Come on people it's not that complicated.
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Re: [RET PVE] Why am I only pulling 3.2k dps?

Postby Modal » Wed Jul 22, 2009 10:48 am

Your gear is decent, so I think there is probably some other factor limiting your dps. In 10s, often that factor is which raid buffs you have available. Do you have Imp. Battle Shout or Imp. BoM? Strength of Earth or Horn of Winter? 10% AP buff from blood DK or enh shaman? Sunder armor up? Kings? You're using AP flask and either 40 Str food or Fish Feast, right?

Your gear could also be better itemized. Trading overcapped hit and armor pen for other stats (especially expertise until the cap, and strength of course) will increase your dps. Gear availability of course limits that. One thing you could do is trade Icewalker for 32 AP; Icewalker is only the best boot enchant if you can use the hit rating.

Looking at your armory, actually, the most correctable and obvious problem is your glyphs. You should immediately replace Glyph of Crusader Strike with Glyph of Consecration; I think the mana savings from the latter is actually higher (would have to double check theory to be sure), and more importantly it also helps reduce cooldown conflict in a FCFS rotation. I think Glyph of Judgement is supposed to be better than Glyph of Exorcism as well, although personally I would keep Exo and replace your SoB glyph. You may have more mana problems without SoB glyph, but you need to learn to deal anyway, since SoB is going away in 3.2 (I find that with the right buffs, liberal use of Divine Plea, and sometimes moving Judgement up in the priority list I manage just fine, although sometimes I have issues if I judge light instead of wisdom).
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Re: [RET PVE] Why am I only pulling 3.2k dps?

Postby andx » Wed Jul 22, 2009 11:11 am

Baelor wrote:
andx wrote::::EDIT::: Essentially I'm asking for an overview of Itemization for Ret pallies.

Hit cap
Stack strength
Don't go past 26 expertise skill
Buff up
Stand behind mob
Roll face on buttons

Come on people it's not that complicated.

Baelor,
I already knew the stats/strats you mentioned. I was more interested in the value of the T7 bonus vs more ap and crit. On the other hand we have the question if leather gloves with ap and loads of agi are better than plate with str and less ap(basicly when does the ap+crit overtake pure ap assuming there will be no loss of crit% on the plate). When is the gain in stats better than loosing tier bonus. Also is it better to have a burst trinket that is useable (for burst damage on a phase such as xt's heart) or is it better to have a chance on hit trinket(for a general boost in average dps)? When using an addon such as rating buster to compare gear is 50ap worth loosing 1% crit? Does a stat become more important with any tier bonuses(is it 10% on top of the character's crit% or 10% of that is added)? Itemization in this respect and not just the basic hit cap and stack str business.

**how much AP=CRIT=Haste=Exp** assuming hit capped

I know the info Baelor mentioned. I was just curious if there was any way besides Rawr to evaluate the gains/losses/value from gear. *Does Rawr take tier set bonuses into account? I know it ignores some but I am not sure about all*

Thanks,
Andx
Maybe I just have a disease or an addiction to tanking, my gf says I'm a masochist I say I like it rough, either way I'm a tank and I can't escape it.
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Re: [RET PVE] Why am I only pulling 3.2k dps?

Postby Dorvan » Wed Jul 22, 2009 11:18 am

Rawr takes all set bonuses into account.
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Re: [RET PVE] Why am I only pulling 3.2k dps?

Postby andx » Wed Jul 22, 2009 11:33 am

Modal wrote:Your gear is decent, so I think there is probably some other factor limiting your dps. In 10s, often that factor is which raid buffs you have available. Do you have Imp. Battle Shout or Imp. BoM? Strength of Earth or Horn of Winter? 10% AP buff from blood DK or enh shaman? Sunder armor up? Kings? You're using AP flask and either 40 Str food or Fish Feast, right?

Your gear could also be better itemized. Trading overcapped hit and armor pen for other stats (especially expertise until the cap, and strength of course) will increase your dps. Gear availability of course limits that. One thing you could do is trade Icewalker for 32 AP; Icewalker is only the best boot enchant if you can use the hit rating.

Looking at your armory, actually, the most correctable and obvious problem is your glyphs. You should immediately replace Glyph of Crusader Strike with Glyph of Consecration; I think the mana savings from the latter is actually higher (would have to double check theory to be sure), and more importantly it also helps reduce cooldown conflict in a FCFS rotation. I think Glyph of Judgement is supposed to be better than Glyph of Exorcism as well, although personally I would keep Exo and replace your SoB glyph. You may have more mana problems without SoB glyph, but you need to learn to deal anyway, since SoB is going away in 3.2 (I find that with the right buffs, liberal use of Divine Plea, and sometimes moving Judgement up in the priority list I manage just fine, although sometimes I have issues if I judge light instead of wisdom).


Modal,

I run with :
1 Pally tank
1 DK Tank
1 Disc Priest
1 Resto/enhance Shammy
1/2 Resto Druids depending if the shammy is dsping or healing
1 Rogue
1 MM Hunter
1 DK dps (I'm not sure what spec I think frost. I'm at work so I can't check)
1 other ranged (lock, hunter, mage)

I use a fish feast and endless rage flask. Our tank judges light so I usually judge wisdom.

Thanks for the tips on the glyphs, that was something I was very unsure about I'll test it when I get home. Its a slow day here at work so I have time to stealthily reply to posts haha.

Also I'm thinking of switching my Mining for Blacksmithing but I'm kind of leary about the loss of gold income/stam or is it not that big of a deal? I'm 29.3khp and good avoidance I dont think it will be that big of a deal but the other pally tank in the guild made it sound like it was the end of the world.

Thanks,
Andx
Maybe I just have a disease or an addiction to tanking, my gf says I'm a masochist I say I like it rough, either way I'm a tank and I can't escape it.
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Re: [RET PVE] Why am I only pulling 3.2k dps?

Postby andx » Wed Jul 22, 2009 11:36 am

Dorvan wrote:Rawr takes all set bonuses into account.


Ok I haven't checked in a while but at one point it wasn't calculating the t7 4 piece.

Andx
Maybe I just have a disease or an addiction to tanking, my gf says I'm a masochist I say I like it rough, either way I'm a tank and I can't escape it.
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Re: [RET PVE] Why am I only pulling 3.2k dps?

Postby Dorvan » Wed Jul 22, 2009 11:50 am

andx wrote:
Dorvan wrote:Rawr takes all set bonuses into account.


Ok I haven't checked in a while but at one point it wasn't calculating the t7 4 piece.

Andx


Currently the 4pT7 bonus has little to no DPS value because judgment is not our top priority anymore. Suffice to say that it's no longer worth making any effort to keep to bonus anymore, you should only use 4 pieces if they'd be your best options anyway.
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Re: [RET PVE] Why am I only pulling 3.2k dps?

Postby Kelaan » Wed Jul 22, 2009 1:32 pm

Baelor wrote:Come on people it's not that complicated.

I didn't think it was either, but on XT and a few other fights, I still don't do a bunch of DPS. I'm close to on par with other (better geared) rets, but not at the level of numbers I would have expected from peoples' claims on the internet.

e.g.:
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/TRNR ... 575&e=4951
(Hm, actually, I did 4.4k there. Then again, XT inflates some of it... perhaps my worries are unfounded?)

Edit: Is this indicative of over-high expectations, or is there really more I can be doing? (Aside from the stuff I already know of, namely buying gear with my few remaining emblems.)
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