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[Disc Priest] All other sites blocked

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Re: [Disc Priest] All other sites blocked

Postby Bundy » Mon Jul 20, 2009 1:49 am

10% mana cost off over 20% off the Penance cooldown. You're sacrificing a ton of flexibility and throughput for a tiny bit of regen.


its -15% mana cost, get it right. And its reducing the cost of 2 of my major heals. I dont feel even in the least bit, that 2 secs off the CD on Penance is effecting my "flexibility" a "ton".

Flash heal in my gear is 7.725 healing per mana. Gheal is 6.67 heal per mana.


Im thinking you dont have the very simple mathematical skills to do this. Again

Fheal costs 38% less than Gheal
Gheal costs less than double the amout of Fheal

Fheal cast time is 42% less than Gheal
Gheal cast time is less than double that of Fheal

Fheal heals for 40% less than Gheal
Gheal heals for more than double that of Fheal

If Gheal cost is less than double that of Fheal, but its actual heal is more than double.
How in the hell does it heal for less per mana?

And although the percentages will change with different talent/glyph choices, it only lessens the gap. Gheal will always be less than double the mana cost and will always heal for more than double the amount.
Last edited by Bundy on Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [Disc Priest] All other sites blocked

Postby majiben » Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:06 am

Bundy wrote:Fheal heals for 40% less than Gheal
Gheal heals for more than double that of Fheal
That's a contradiction
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Re: [Disc Priest] All other sites blocked

Postby Joanadark » Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:07 am

chill with the antagonism.

This was an interesting thread until we started getting snippy with each other. We're all capable of theorycrafting in a perfectly mature manner.
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Re: [Disc Priest] All other sites blocked

Postby Bundy » Mon Jul 20, 2009 3:06 am

Fheal heals for 40% less than Gheal
Gheal heals for more than double that of Fheal


That's a contradiction


....oh I see, I worded it wrong, its supposed to read

Fheal heals for 40% that of Gheal, or 60% less than Gheal.
My bad on that.

chill with the antagonism.

This was an interesting thread until we started getting snippy with each other. We're all capable of theorycrafting in a perfectly mature manner.
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Re: [Disc Priest] All other sites blocked

Postby sherck » Mon Jul 20, 2009 8:30 am

Not to de-rail this "discussion" (/popcorn), but I have a question on the use of Renew in raid situations.

Since there is virtually zero mention of it's use in this thread, can I make the assumption that it is not used much in Disc healing? Is it used by Holy in raid healing? Is it just going to get snipped by direct healers out there for raid healing?

Or is it so good that it is assumed that it will be on the target at all times and everyone here knows that so it is without saying that it is not mentioned?

Just wondering. In healing instances up to level 42, a combination of Renew and PW:S pretty much accounts for 85% of my spells cast with Dispel Magic/Abolish Disease making up another 10%. The times that I have to lay down a Flash Heal or Greater Heal is only when the tank manages to grab three mob groups all at once or if DPS decides to ignore the threat meters and goes hog wild.

But I know that is leveling. How is it for a raiding healing Priest? I plan to go both Disc (healing) and Holy (healing) at level 80 so I will be defusing the "which is better" argument.

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Re: [Disc Priest] All other sites blocked

Postby Morningrise » Mon Jul 20, 2009 10:42 am

Here's the thing Bundy. Despite the fact that I got confused looking at Grace vs Renewed Hope while looking over talents in an effort to help you, you're asking questions that have already been answered at places like elitistjerks, Discpriest.com, the official boards, and this thread.

To further boost Disc priest + Flash Heal synergy, look at the talent Renewed Hope again. With a proper gear & talent setup, you can reliably crit with Flash Heal on targets effected by Weakened Soul, giving Flash Heal a HUGE boost in efficiency. Break it down vs GHeal all you want, but you'll soon figure out that in practice you won't have the room to bomb in some GHeals with heavy sustained damage on a tank in these raids.

That said... with the nerfs inc to Penance (they're increasing the cooldown by 2 secs) this may change... we may have to use GHeals once or so in a healing rotation in order to keep up with the incoming damage. There's a good thread right now on the official healing boards discussing this very issue.

@ sherk
Renew & GHeal are used on a rare basis. I don't talent for Renew in T1 Holy, but I still use it for those situations where every little bit helps. As Disc, it's a padder spell. Disc priests don't get the insane spellpower boosts that Holy does through talents, so it's going to tick for a really small amount in comparison to other HoTs... it's somewhat inefficient & weak considering what else you could use that GCD for. Holy uses it often I'd think, especially since they have the new Empowered Renew talent deep in Holy. Early on while leveling, you'll use it a lot. For raiding as disc though, it'll get play, but not much. HTH
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Re: [Disc Priest] All other sites blocked

Postby katraya » Mon Jul 20, 2009 11:21 am

Morningrise wrote:@ sherk
Renew & GHeal are used on a rare basis. I don't talent for Renew in T1 Holy, but I still use it for those situations where every little bit helps. As Disc, it's a padder spell. Disc priests don't get the insane spellpower boosts that Holy does through talents, so it's going to tick for a really small amount in comparison to other HoTs... it's somewhat inefficient & weak considering what else you could use that GCD for. Holy uses it often I'd think, especially since they have the new Empowered Renew talent deep in Holy. Early on while leveling, you'll use it a lot. For raiding as disc though, it'll get play, but not much. HTH


I basically agree. It is situationally very useful, but not a main part of you healing arsenal.

I do really like it as either spec for 5 mans. It is handy to throw on that lifetapping lock or ret pally to keep heals coming in on them while you are busy elsewhere. I'll also throw it on group members if I know that there is a bit of splash damage coming up and I'll be busy on the tank or healing myself. It is also good if you're on the move and want to throw an instant heal. I tend to keep it up during thing like the ethereal boss in VH where you have to kite him and there is AoE damage.

In a raid enviroment when you're not the only healer it tends to be less useful. While it is ticking away the other healer(s) may have already topped them up. I do like using it between pulls to top people off - again with those warlocks!

As holy I have 2 points in Empowered Renew so I do get the bigger up front heal that makes up for the fact that is could be healed over and can crit and proc Holy Concentration. As disc it is a bit more lackluster particularly since you don't have many talents that will enhance it and it won't give you big shiney bubbles (Divine Aegis).
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Re: [Disc Priest] All other sites blocked

Postby Bundy » Tue Jul 21, 2009 2:07 am

Yes, I am denying that gheal is more efficient. Flash heal in my gear is 7.725 healing per mana Gheal is heal mana. Gheal is 6.67 heal per mana. What Gheal does have is slightly higher throughput, namely that it's 3730 hps vs 3026 hps for flash (but with the major catch of assuming no overheal).


As far as the bolded part, if this is somehow true. Could someone show the math on how this happened?

Not sure I understand your uses of the word "Throughput" because th the definition says "the quantity or amount of raw material processed within a given time," and that would mean if Gheal has higher throughput, its more effiecient. So could someone please explain this whole "heal per mana" thing because I certainly dont get it.

But given the increased crit chances on Fheals that I wasnt really taking into account, I guess Fheal is better than I originaly had thought.

Im thinking that all you guys are talking about Ulduar 25 and what not, where as im talking about Naxx level. That could be why theres such a disagreement. Ive only been 80 for like 3-4 RL days and ive healed Naxx, OS, VoA and every heroic there is. Maybe I will see your guys points a little more when im in higher level stuff. But right now im doing more than fine using my methods.

And about renew, I try to keep it up on the tank most of the time. But I usualy use it for DPS'ers who took a little damage and arent in immediate danger. If there still taking damage ill bubble em and toss an actual heal followed by a renew and keep my eye on em with the Tank still priority of course. It ticks for a decent amount, about 1.4k I think, so that could save your/someone elses life if you get stunned/feared/sleep or whatever.
Last edited by Bundy on Wed Jul 22, 2009 12:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [Disc Priest] All other sites blocked

Postby amh » Tue Jul 21, 2009 2:11 am

Flash heal would strictly speaking be even better in Naxx than it is in Ulduar, since your heals will shave off a much larger size of the damage taken by the tank per hit.
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Re: [Disc Priest] All other sites blocked

Postby Bundy » Tue Jul 21, 2009 4:50 am

Well that depends on gear. The better the gear of the tank, the more time I have between and for each heal.

Strictly speaking, GHeal is more mana efficient,so im gonna use it over Fheal whenever its feasable. Which ends up being about the same overall usage as Fheal.

Oh heres another mechanics question. about PoM.

Does it heal before or after the actual hit? If Tank has 5k HP left with PoM on and he gets hit for 6k, does he live or die?
If I had to guess id say he lives, but dont know for sure.
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Re: [Disc Priest] All other sites blocked

Postby sherck » Tue Jul 21, 2009 4:59 am

Thanks all for the comments on the use of Renew. I guess I sort of knew that it would be more helpful as a Holy because of that deep talent, but I was unsure as to where it would play in when I was running Disc.

So, a quick (VERY generalized) boil down from the above comments would be that the greatest amount of synergy with talents and gearing would be:

DISC
Primary Spells = Pennance, PW:S, Flash Heal, Prayer of Mending,
Secondary Spells = Binding Heal, Greater Heal, Renew, Holy Nova, and Prayer of Healing

HOLY
Primary Spells = Circle of Healing, Renew, Greater Heal, Holy Nova, Prayer of Mending
Secondary Spells = PW:S, Binding Heal, Prayer of Healing

How far off am I ?

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Re: [Disc Priest] All other sites blocked

Postby Morningrise » Tue Jul 21, 2009 5:16 am

Bundy wrote:Oh heres another mechanics question. about PoM.

Does it heal before or after the actual hit? If Tank has 5k HP left with PoM on and he gets hit for 6k, does he live or die?
If I had to guess id say he lives, but dont know for sure.

It heals after the hit. So in your example, the tank would die.
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Re: [Disc Priest] All other sites blocked

Postby sherck » Tue Jul 21, 2009 5:18 am

Morningrise wrote:
Bundy wrote:Oh heres another mechanics question. about PoM.

Does it heal before or after the actual hit? If Tank has 5k HP left with PoM on and he gets hit for 6k, does he live or die?
If I had to guess id say he lives, but dont know for sure.

It heals after the hit. So in your example, the tank would die.


Follow-on question, in this example, does the frisbee jump if it has more charges left or does it just stay with the dead guy and is consumed?

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Re: [Disc Priest] All other sites blocked

Postby Bundy » Wed Jul 22, 2009 10:31 pm

Well ill have you all know I changed talents. After a few long boss fights where dps was terrible and it took forever it seemed, and I still had no mana issues what so ever. I decided my mana effiecency was more than fine.

So I took the points out of holy and got the 20% CD on Penance and the others. But instead of glyphing for Fheal too, I went with PoH because that was the one thing I was lacking, AoE heals.

I gotta be honest though, the 20% CD only brought it down by 1.4 secs, not exactly impressive. But hell, I can ues power infusion like every other pull easily, lol.

On a side not, I ended up d/e'ing an epic from a heroic, and one of the dps'ers said "roll for shard" so we roll and I win. And later he says ok lets roll for the abyss crystal. I said we did and I won. He says "No that was for the dream shard, I said roll for shard, not roll for crystal". I just laughed and hearthed.
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Re: [Disc Priest] All other sites blocked

Postby sherck » Thu Jul 23, 2009 4:48 am

Bundy wrote:On a side not, I ended up d/e'ing an epic from a heroic, and one of the dps'ers said "roll for shard" so we roll and I win. And later he says ok lets roll for the abyss crystal. I said we did and I won. He says "No that was for the dream shard, I said roll for shard, not roll for crystal". I just laughed and hearthed.


Lol, my old main is a chanter and I would get that quite a bit too. If the only thing you were DE at that time of the roll is the Abyss Crystal, then that guy is just a tard.

If you were DE multiple things, one blue and one purple, perhaps he has a leg to stand on....but probably not.

Hate sore losers. If you need more DE mats, just run more instances. I never had an issue gathering DE mats for high level enchants.

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