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[Disc Priest] All other sites blocked

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[Disc Priest] All other sites blocked

Postby Bundy » Mon Jul 13, 2009 5:21 am

Just wondering what the prefered stats are for Disc Priests.

Im 78 right now, and I usualy prefer Loads of Int, SP, Crit, Spir.

I figure Int scales well because the 15% talent plus kings will multiply it even more. More mana, More Crit.
Crit scales very well with Divine Aegis.
And Spir is good to keep the mana flowing with meditation.

Haste is alright but nothing I aim to boost. But id love to hear some other peoples advice cuz I havnt healed a raid since MC/BWL/AQ20. In fact I still keep my Benediction in my bank for nostalgic puproses.

Obviously I havnt healed Naxx yet, and ive read that for fights like Patches your supposed to pre-cast big heals.
I can see why this is best for other classes/specs. But as Disc, my bubble heals/shields the Tank (Heals for 1k, shields for est 3k) and makes my next heal 25% faster. Overall this seems better than simply casting greater heals all day.

Basicaly its an instant 4k heal with another 7-8k heal coming very quickly right behind that.

So do Disc Priest still use the Pre Cast method or reactive healing on fights like this?
Sadly I think I know the answer already, but I have to try my way at least once to see how it works out.
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Re: [Disc Priest] All other sites blocked

Postby katraya » Mon Jul 13, 2009 8:37 am

I'm a bit rusty when it comes to disc - I leveled that way and healed for a while as disc at 80 before switching to holy - but I'll try to give you some advise.

Stats -
Int is the big one and will usually be your first priority. It gives you more sp and mana returns from Rapture. Unless you're making a big sacrifice in sp, then go for int whenever possible.
Spellpower - obviously this is important and it'll come with gear.
Crit - this is tasty for disc and probably the best secondary stat for you.
Haste - haste certainly is good, but you'll get plenty of it just from Borrowed Time which should be up 99.9% of the time. Let it come with gear but don't sacrifice crit/int/sp to get it.
Spirit - this is pretty lackluster for disc. While it does aid meditation, you get a ton of mana back other ways so I wouldn't worry about it. It'll come as you get gear but I wouldn't actively pursue it.

Gems - I tended to put sp/int gems in as many sockets as possible. As I said before Int is key, and the sp was really to boost myself up when asked how much sp I had by pugs. :P If there was a blue socket with a socket bonus I couldn't pass up then I think I used sp/mp5 but they may not be the best choice. There are also int/spirit gems to consider but I'll defer on blue sockets to someone with better knowledge than I.

Keep in mind that once you start doing raids that some of the shadow pieces of T7 are actually better itemized for disc than the holy pieces, and the 4 pc bonus is bleh. This may be true for T8 too, but the 4 pc bonus of T8 is too hot to pass up.

As for spells - I usually made sure Penance was always on cooldown, used PW:S as much as I could depending on the weakened soul debuff, used Prayer of Mending liberally and always pre-pull, and used Flash as my filler spell. Greater Heal was used very rarely, and only with the Borrowed Time buff up.

A thing I find handy as either spec is to use Divine Hymn if there has been major party dmg. As disc you can shield yourself to prevent interruption and then cast Inner Focus to get around the big mana cost before casting DH. Power Infusion + Borrowed Time + PoH can clean up group damage quickly too.

Hopefully that is enough to get you started. I know some other people on this forum run disc so maybe they can fill in any holes.
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Re: [Disc Priest] All other sites blocked

Postby glorfindell » Mon Jul 13, 2009 2:49 pm

Lotta good stuff from what Katraya said.

Your stat priority seems close. Intellect is your primary regen stat, not only does it increase spirit regen, it also increases rapture mana returns as well as Replenishment as those return mana based on a % of your total mana pool. Spellpower is obviously your primary throughput stat, so you can balance your Int vs. SP based on whether you need more regen or throughput. Crit is important for DA and Inspiration procs. Spirit on gear is similar to mp5 on gear for regen right now (about 3 spi = 1 mp5, which is how it is usually itemized on gear) but don't forget that 3.2 brings a 25% buff to mp5, so I'd prioritize mp5 over spirit. Haste is very good if you ever have to raid heal, since PoH will be your primary group healing spell, and it has a looong cast time even with Borrowed Time up. I healed our progression Mimiron kill (so embarrassed I didn't take my pally for that, but we needed more healers :P ), and phase 2 is an insane amount of raid damage that you will need to be casting Borrowed Time hasted PoH for the entire phase.

I heal very similarily to Katraya, PW:S and PoM on tank at pull, keep those 2 on cooldown and Penance whenever the tank takes a big hit, Flash heal when Penance is on CD.

On Patchy, I shield/PoM proactively and heal reactively. Penance is a 3 tick channel and the first tick is instant, so theres really not much reason to pre-cast it. If your tank is still low after Penance, cast Flash heal until he's topped up. 2 Flash heals = 1 Greater heal in terms of both cast time and healing amount, but with the glyph Flash heal is cheaper, and also more flexible. Since you can Flash heal for 4-6k in little more then 1 second there's not much reason to pre-cast it either.

Edit: not sure which web-blocker your work is using, but mine still lets me see discpriest.com and plusheal.com. Give those a shot if you haven't already.
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Re: [Disc Priest] All other sites blocked

Postby Bundy » Mon Jul 13, 2009 10:10 pm

Edit: not sure which web-blocker your work is using, but mine still lets me see discpriest.com and plusheal.com. Give those a shot if you haven't already.


Oh I have, this is literaly the only site I can get on. Ive must have tried 500 sites by now.

Intellect is your primary regen stat, not only does it increase spirit regen


Could you explain how this is please? How is does Intel increase spirit regen?

On Patchy, I shield/PoM proactively and heal reactively. Penance is a 3 tick channel and the first tick is instant, so theres really not much reason to pre-cast it. If your tank is still low after Penance, cast Flash heal until he's topped up. 2 Flash heals = 1 Greater heal in terms of both cast time and healing amount, but with the glyph Flash heal is cheaper, and also more flexible. Since you can Flash heal for 4-6k in little more then 1 second there's not much reason to pre-cast it either.


I didnt mean pre-cast Penance, I meant pre-cast greater heal. And sorry but greater heal is more bang for your buck in terms of mana cost to heal amount. If you get the 0.5 reduced cast time which I always do, its a about double the heal amount for less than double the mana. Plus the longer casting time scales beter with more haste. I calculate flash heal a being 57% faster cast than greater, healing for 7k- 11k right now as 78 with good gear for my level but obviously not epics. Im at 1300 sp I think. Anyways I used greater heal as much as possible because of this, and only use flash heal when the tank is low because of the increased crit chance.]

One other question. On PW:S, does the tooltip amount absorbed reflect the actual amount absorbed or is it missing the spell power increase? I know when fighting a regular 80 mob they cant get through the bubble before I kill them which taked a good 20 secs with my 600 dps.
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Re: [Disc Priest] All other sites blocked

Postby amh » Mon Jul 13, 2009 10:25 pm

Bundy wrote:Could you explain how this is please? How is does Intel increase spirit regen?



In their effort to stop pure spirit-gemming or something like that, they made it so that you need to keep a balanced intellect:spirit ratio. Since they nerfed oo5sr regeneration so hard anyway, you're far better off with the mana returned through replenishment and rapture.

wowwiki wrote:As of 2.4, Intellect will increase the amount of MP5 generated by Spirit.


http://www.wowwiki.com/Formulas:Mana_Regen
- tons of info. There's also a nice chart that I was unable to link.
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Re: [Disc Priest] All other sites blocked

Postby hoho » Tue Jul 14, 2009 3:22 am

Bundy wrote:And sorry but greater heal is more bang for your buck in terms of mana cost to heal amount. If you get the 0.5 reduced cast time which I always do, its a about double the heal amount for less than double the mana.
How about massive overheal? In the time you casted gheal other healers just topped up the tank with smaller and faster spells. With talents and perhaps even glyph fheal will be more bang per buck with much smaller overheal, though quite a few disc priests are beginning to drop imp. FH talent and glyph while still spamming it.

Disc bubbles absorb around 6-8k raid-buffed with 2.8k+ spellpower, depending on trinkets. For holy the numbers are substantially smaller at around 3-4k at best. Tooltip doesn't reflect the real absorbtion amount, it just shows the baseline that doesn't count for talents or gear.

We are generally raiding with 1-2 discs and most of the time they are on raid healing with PWS spam and occasional penance-PoM-PoH
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Re: [Disc Priest] All other sites blocked

Postby amh » Tue Jul 14, 2009 4:24 am

Yeah, seeing how big part Glyph of PW:S is of disco healing is pretty cool :)
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Re: [Disc Priest] All other sites blocked

Postby hoho » Tue Jul 14, 2009 5:07 am

amh wrote:Yeah, seeing how big part Glyph of PW:S is of disco healing is pretty cool :)
I really should start using that glyph instead the crappy FH one considering I'm topping the charts with PWS spam :-P
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-W ... 143&e=4534
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Re: [Disc Priest] All other sites blocked

Postby Morningrise » Tue Jul 14, 2009 6:25 am

On my disc priest I pretty much stack Intellect over everything, keeping spellpower a close second. I try to keep my crit at around 30% unbuffed if I can help it (25% is the milestone to aim for & maintain), and my haste up to the point where my borrowed time flash heal hits 1.0 sec. In addition I hit socket bonuses to keep a relatively fair amount of spirit & mp5 on my stat sheet for the regen. Raid buffed I am almost to the 28k mana mark, and can hit 42% crit if I've got a Moonkin & FM from a mage along with crit food. Armory if it helps. GL HF
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Re: [Disc Priest] All other sites blocked

Postby Bundy » Tue Jul 14, 2009 6:34 am

How about massive overheal? In the time you casted gheal other healers just topped up the tank with smaller and faster spells. With talents and perhaps even glyph fheal will be more bang per buck with much smaller overheal, though quite a few disc priests are beginning to drop imp. FH talent and glyph while still spamming it.


Well when theres multiple healers on one target there is no avoiding overhealing. All you can hope for is no lagg and you stoppping the heal if the target is topped off by the time your cast is about done. I do have the talents into imp FH, but the more I think about it, the more I realize im not a fan of FH at all. When I hit 80 im gonna respec out of it into something else most likely. But who knows.
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Re: [Disc Priest] All other sites blocked

Postby hoho » Tue Jul 14, 2009 6:50 am

If there are lots of people spamming heals on tank what is better, having smaller heals land more often or big nukes less often (and possibly not lining up nicely)? Compare it to damage intake, spiky vs steady. HPS of fheal is pretty much the same for disc as gheal, pretty much only way to make gheal better is to have borrowed time but in case you are assigned to a singe tank and you don't have any other disc that happenes only 4x per minute at best.
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Re: [Disc Priest] All other sites blocked

Postby glorfindell » Tue Jul 14, 2009 10:20 am

Bundy wrote:
How about massive overheal? In the time you casted gheal other healers just topped up the tank with smaller and faster spells. With talents and perhaps even glyph fheal will be more bang per buck with much smaller overheal, though quite a few disc priests are beginning to drop imp. FH talent and glyph while still spamming it.


Well when theres multiple healers on one target there is no avoiding overhealing. All you can hope for is no lagg and you stoppping the heal if the target is topped off by the time your cast is about done. I do have the talents into imp FH, but the more I think about it, the more I realize im not a fan of FH at all. When I hit 80 im gonna respec out of it into something else most likely. But who knows.


Well, you came in asking for advice, and several raiding disc priests have given you advice. It's up to you whether or not you take it!

As was said before, I rarely use Greater Heal, since Flash Heal is much more flexible and has a similar throughput. Nowadays tanks die to bursts (due to large boss hit sizes and high avoidance), rarely to steady damage or healer OOM. Being able to land a heal during the burst opposed to after it will often make the difference between a wipe or not. Of course this is more of a problem in Ulduar than in Naxx, so you might be fine using GH in Naxx.

In my experience I was able to improve my effective HPS and decrease my overheal in raids by using FH over GH however.
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Re: [Disc Priest] All other sites blocked

Postby glorfindell » Tue Jul 14, 2009 10:33 am

hoho wrote:
amh wrote:Yeah, seeing how big part Glyph of PW:S is of disco healing is pretty cool :)
I really should start using that glyph instead the crappy FH one considering I'm topping the charts with PWS spam :-P
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-W ... 143&e=4534


Yeah if I didn't always heal 10's with 2 druids I would think about replacing FH glyph with the PoH one. I currently glyph Penance, FH, and PW:S as the primary tank healer. If we switched one of the druids with a Pally I'd love to raid heal more, since I'm getting bored of tank healing :P. On Mimiron PoH is usually my top heal (maybe less than PW:S absorption, but we don't use WoL so I haven't directly compared the two :S) due to all the raid healing in phases 2 and 4. Recount shows the druids usually put out 2300-2500 HPS for the fight, and I am at 2100-2200 + 1200 from shields. I'm sure I could beat the druids in pure HPS if I use the PoH glyph :D.
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Re: [Disc Priest] All other sites blocked

Postby Morningrise » Tue Jul 14, 2009 1:20 pm

I forgot that I wanted to comment on the earlier discussion of GHeal use as Disc. Personally, I find it's not in my best interest (or my tank's) to use it unless I'm feeling salty & just want to see big numbers (and only then if I know my tank is covered & the current task at hand is a snorefest). I get the most use out of it while healing N25 Raz students, just because their huge health pool allows for it and I like to see how big of a DA I can get when GHeal crits. When I do cast it as a matter of need, it's typically when I feel that I'm getting really behind on the incoming damage. Even then, there's a few factors that play into it.

1) Penance is on cooldown. If it's not, why are you GHealing?
2) My tank has Weakened Soul, thus I can't PW:S.
3) I have Borrowed Time and/or Power Infusion available (Never, ever cast a non-haste GHeal as Disc).
4) Tank absolutely needs to have a huge heal > 6k.
5) The healing situation as it is won't allow for me to cast 1-2 flash heals to even things out.

When I do cast it, it's only to buy time until Penance is off cooldown. Like I said, if you're geared right, your Flash Heals should be hitting around 4k, critting around 6k. GHeals should hit around 8k, crit around ?? (I don't use it much so it doesn't stick out readily in my mind). Typically, even specced into Divine Fury, my GHeals are too slow to allow for me to use it as a staple utility. And to my earlier point about PI... I have GHeal macro'd with PI so if it's up, PI is used. However, I have the same setup for Prayer of Healing... which I probably will change eventually, as I prioritize AoE healing over a GHeal or 3 (if you're in Ulduar, you know the spots where this is crucial, and Disc doesn't have CoH packed into the toolbox).

I've played around a bunch with the spec, and I've found the steady stream healing method of PW:S > Penance > Flash Heal x2/x3 has to be the best method of healing your tank... at least for me. Uld25 raids usually stick me on a tank w/the help of a Beacon, and that's all that's needed to heal him. Typically I don't even stop healing the whole fight - just keep streaming while the others do their job, and bosses drop. Progression-wise, you can see where critz is on the Alexstrasza realm forums & my personal on my Armory. :) HTH
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Re: [Disc Priest] All other sites blocked

Postby Bundy » Wed Jul 15, 2009 12:07 am

Disc bubbles absorb around 6-8k raid-buffed with 2.8k+ spellpower, depending on trinkets.


Plus the 25% haste afterwards makes Gheal something like a 1.7 sec cast. Are you guys saying an instant 6-8k bubble + glyph heal which would be 1200-1600, all that isnt enough to give you enough time to get a 1.7 sec cast off before the tank goes down?

I think we can all agree that healing is very situational. Any heal you decide to use depends on the situation. Im not saying Gheal is my priority over other heals, but if I just used my PW:S im not gonna follow it up with a Fheal, im using Penance or Gheal, or PoH maybe. So to spec into imp Fheal seems silly because the increased crit chance would rarely come into effect. If I was using Fheal to keep the tank topped off, he shouldnt drop below 50%.

A more consistant flow of smaller heals makes sense for better stability I agree. But I still think pound for pound, Gheal is more efficient. But it all depends on talent/glyph choices I guess. If you spec everything in Fheal and nothing in Gheal, obviously Fheal is more efficient.

I was trying out some specs on a talent calculater, and if you dont spec into imp Fheal , you can get -0.5 cast time on Gheal as well as -15% cost on Gheal, Penance. Well I think so, im going off memory here.
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