[hunter-pve] Marks vs Surv

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[hunter-pve] Marks vs Surv

Postby Assyst » Tue Jul 07, 2009 3:24 am

Is survival still the best for current raiding or has Marks crept up to the top now?

The reason im asking is because my hunter is almost 80 and I still can't decide myself with one puts out the most.

Any advice would be great

Many thanks
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Re: [hunter-pve] Marks vs Surv

Postby Elsie » Tue Jul 07, 2009 3:50 am

They're both very strong.
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Re: [hunter-pve] Marks vs Surv

Postby Assyst » Tue Jul 07, 2009 4:09 am

But is mark more gear req, say i have naxx10/hc gear would that be enough to pull marks off?
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Re: [hunter-pve] Marks vs Surv

Postby uke » Tue Jul 07, 2009 6:18 am

I believe they're currently close enough in viability now that the correct answer is "play whichever one you enjoy/are good at".

The official hunter forums are full of people who switched from marks to survival expecting to do higher dps, but not because 1.) they didn't enjoy it and 2.) they did not adjust to the different playstyle to make it work.

Another caveat is that apparently marksmanship has the advantage on fights with constant movement, which happens a lot in Ulduar.

So yeah, go whichever you enjoy most.

Hopefully BM will be brought up to speed in 3.2, and we'll have 3 competitive specs to choose from based on how we like to play.
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Re: [hunter-pve] Marks vs Surv

Postby honorshammer » Tue Jul 07, 2009 6:50 am

I played all 3 specs on my Hunter alt. While I like the mentality of Surv, I find Marks more enjoyable. I just wish both specs didn't have to use a Wolf. I can't stand having the same type of pet as every other Hunter in the raid. I might bring a Cunning Pet for Roar of Recovery since I seem to go OOM a lot more as Marks than I did as Surv.
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Re: [hunter-pve] Marks vs Surv

Postby fafhrd » Tue Jul 07, 2009 9:14 am

They're both fairly close but which works out better depends on your gear and raid buffs and fight. The difference is not necessarily non-trivial though - I raid with both, theoretically with my current (fairly good) and future gear MM is better by about 400 dps, in practice this seems to bear out too.

Particular slots of gear also matter a lot - a good ranged weapon has a bigger effect on MM dps than SV - I can put on a level 70 bow as SV and my primary attack still does the exact same damage, whereas as MM every single attack I do has its damage noticeably lowered (and I don't have any attack as MM I can call my primary attack, everything including autoattacks do similar %s of my damage).

It's not necessarily as simple as "MM is better for movement fights" either - all survival loses on heavy movement is half of the effect of Sniper Training (the crit bonus to Kill Shot remains whether you've moving all the time or not) and some mediocre steady shots - MM values steadyshots a fair bit higher due to piercing shots, imp steadyshot, and any lost autoshots cost wild quiver procs too. More importantly, MM dps is dependant on the target being both marked and stung, and since a lot of the "heavy movement" fights feature a fair bit of switching off to kill adds, MM suffers at that a lot more than SV does. And if you're geared enough to be dropping arcane shot from your rotation as MM, it definitely values low movement single target fights more than SV does (and demolishes SV on them because of it).

Things that make the choice easy though: if your raid needs replenishment you're SV with a point or two in hunting party. If your raid needs 10% AP you're MM with a point in TSA. If your raid needs neither, you can be whichever you prefer, likely with points in neither TSA nor HP (either is likely a waste of your talent points if the raid doesn't need you providing them).

The good thing is that since as a hunter you don't have to have multiple PvE roles like pallies/druids/warriors/shamans, if you don't want a PvP spec you can have both Survival and MM pve specs, and switch from fight to fight or mood to mood.

Since you say you're just hitting 80 though, I'd guess your gear isn't all that great and you'll be better off as survival (the spreadsheet will be able to confirm or refute this for whatever gear/spec you're considering).
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Re: [hunter-pve] Marks vs Surv

Postby Lash » Wed Jul 08, 2009 10:21 pm

I use BM in i200 gear, it works out about the same as marks/surv at that level*. Plus I can macro spam and afk :lol:

*at least it does against every other hunter I've played with, maybe they are just bad :roll:
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Re: [hunter-pve] Marks vs Surv

Postby Arees » Thu Jul 09, 2009 12:59 pm

Lash wrote:I use BM in i200 gear, it works out about the same as marks/surv at that level*. Plus I can macro spam and afk :lol:

*at least it does against every other hunter I've played with, maybe they are just bad :roll:


I think lower level gear favors BM a little bit because it seems to have an abundance of AP but lacking in other things like hit and crit. BM scales well with AP because of how it transfers to their pets.

My hunter is 75 and I just ran a normal ZD that had a MM hunter that was 76 and I did about 200-300 more dps than him. I am still wearing some of my S2 or S3 gear that I regemmed with AP gems, and he was wearing mostly northrend greens and blues, but at 75-76 the gear is about equal to what I have. The hunter got mad and said that BM wasn't supposed to be as high as MM and SV... blah blah blah. Like I said... I think its AP scaling with pets. My pet did something like 65% of my dps.
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