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[Ret PVP] 3.2 Changes announced...thoughts?

Ret, Holy, PVP, etc

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Re: [Ret PVP] 3.2 Changes announced...thoughts?

Postby Robbo » Wed Jul 01, 2009 3:19 pm

Modal wrote:
Robbo wrote:The absolute LAST thing I want is to have to prioritize a proc. I don't play my warrior anymore because of how annoying that is to me.


Unless something else changes you won't. You'll still cast Exo on its 15s CD pretty much every time. AoW changes are a PvP burst nerf, and won't have much impact on PvE.


My post was in response to Proudfoot saying he wanted a "Sudden Death" type proc for paladins. Which I still think is dumb.

Also, your logic is kinda flawed Proudfoots (PROUDFEET), you say that a proc would separate good rets from bad rets. You also say that its not hard to prioritize a proc.
I also fail to see why its important to separate the two, it will always be obvious which paladin is doing the right thing from the end outcome.

Also also, AoW is a pvp burst buff, not a nerf.
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Re: [Ret PVP] 3.2 Changes announced...thoughts?

Postby Modal » Wed Jul 01, 2009 3:31 pm

Robbo wrote:Also also, AoW is a pvp burst buff, not a nerf.


How? Now you can't fire Exo while you're closing; you have to be in melee range to get it to proc. Once you're in melee range and get the proc, it doesn't do any more damage than before. I guess you're saying that since Exo is usable on players again it's a buff, but it was clear from the start that that hotfix was a temporary change until they got a more suitable solution in place. This is the more suitable solution. It's meant to keep ret PvP burst under control.
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Re: [Ret PVP] 3.2 Changes announced...thoughts?

Postby Robbo » Wed Jul 01, 2009 3:59 pm

Not being able to use exo was a nerf. Being able to use it again is a buff.

*shrug* that's all I'm sayin.

EDIT Ret pvp burst (as far as what I've seen so far myself on the ptr, which I admit is kinda limited) is pretty much the same, if not better. The real nerf to ret in the coming patch pvp wise is the resil change.
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Re: [Ret PVP] 3.2 Changes announced...thoughts?

Postby Proudfoot » Wed Jul 01, 2009 7:38 pm

Robbo wrote:My post was in response to Proudfoot saying he wanted a "Sudden Death" type proc for paladins. Which I still think is dumb.

Also, your logic is kinda flawed Proudfoots (PROUDFEET), you say that a proc would separate good rets from bad rets. You also say that its not hard to prioritize a proc.
I also fail to see why its important to separate the two, it will always be obvious which paladin is doing the right thing from the end outcome.

Also also, AoW is a pvp burst buff, not a nerf.


I should preface this with the fact that I PVP about... never, so my comments in a PVP thread are a little pointless.

I don't see how my logic is flawed here. What I meant was that it's not hard for me to prioritize a proc, but I know it would be for some and thus you'd see an actual difference with a skilled pally. Right now it's not that hard to play at a very competent level without much thinking at all (faceroll?). My comments about the "Sudden Death" proc were to address our PVE dps and the AoW proc changes nothing in regards to the frequency that we will cast Exo thus... it's meh. "Sudden Death" probably wouldn't be the best solution because of the PVP implications *shrug*.

Making us cast CS more often doesn't somehow make it more exciting either. I know it was nerfed for burst issues but all they did with the AoW changes was delay our burst to when it's more powerful anyways (3x Veng). I still think it needs some sort of PVP debuff too, although I don't know what. I've seen it suggested that we get a hemo debuff but I think that might make us OP for the PVE buffs we provide... I mean seriously, we now provide 3% crit, 3% dmg, 3% haste, AP reduction, AP buff, JoW, and Replenish. How about we add Hemo to the list of things that nobody else needs to bother taking while we're at it... how 'bout NO. I enjoy providing utility but I don't want to put everyone else out of a job.
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Re: [Ret PVP] 3.2 Changes announced...thoughts?

Postby Robbo » Wed Jul 01, 2009 11:17 pm

I agree with you on the points that lowering CS CD and making AoW a proc for Exo did not make playing ret more interesting or more difficult.

To the "separate good rets from bad rets" discussion, my point I suppose is why does it matter? A person can be semi-successful at a videogame without putting the effort that you put forth. Good for them imo. You WILL come out ahead if you were to compare yourself to someone who isn't doing all the work. Big dealy-o.

I would love to see something done with CS to make it more interesting. Maybe my situation is different, but my guild really does pick raiders based on skill level, not so much specific buffs. We of course do our best to diversify our raid group, but we don't stress about a little overlap here and there.

And really, in the end, its just a PTR, lots could change before any of this goes live.
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Re: [Ret PVP] 3.2 Changes announced...thoughts?

Postby Proudfoot » Thu Jul 02, 2009 2:53 pm

Robbo wrote:To the "separate good rets from bad rets" discussion, my point I suppose is why does it matter? A person can be semi-successful at a videogame without putting the effort that you put forth. Good for them imo. You WILL come out ahead if you were to compare yourself to someone who isn't doing all the work. Big dealy-o.


The reason to me is I don't like being viewed as a faceroll class and that's the only reason I do well. The difference between a skilled rogue and a crap one is like night and day. An average rogue does average damage, but a great rogue will blow everyone away in my experience. I want there to be more potential for success or failure in my class because I will capitalize on it and prove that I'm not top DPS because I play an "easy class" but because I try to be.

I would love to see something done with CS to make it more interesting.


I had an idea that I think would work for PVE and PVP and would be fun!!

Crusader Strike - 6 Sec cooldown (again) - 10 yrd range
Lunge at your target dealing 60% weapon damage plus an additional 60% over 4 seconds and slowing their movement speed by 15%.

(damage should tick 3 times after the initial hit)

Good? Bad? to much mobility?
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Re: [Ret PVP] 3.2 Changes announced...thoughts?

Postby bub64882 » Thu Jul 02, 2009 3:50 pm

Proudfoot wrote:I had an idea that I think would work for PVE and PVP and would be fun!!

Crusader Strike - 6 Sec cooldown (again) - 10 yrd range
Lunge at your target dealing 60% weapon damage plus an additional 60% over 4 seconds and slowing their movement speed by 15%.

(damage should tick 3 times after the initial hit)

Good? Bad? to much mobility?


OP for PVP, which I would love for the 48 hours it takes them to hotfix it. :)

According to devs, we are balanced for PVP without a closer or a snare (beyond JudgeJustice and Hammer).
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Re: [Ret PVP] 3.2 Changes announced...thoughts?

Postby Proudfoot » Thu Jul 02, 2009 4:20 pm

bub64882 wrote:OP for PVP, which I would love for the 48 hours it takes them to hotfix it. :)

According to devs, we are balanced for PVP without a closer or a snare (beyond JudgeJustice and Hammer).


But it's only 10 yards... Ok then no slowing.

Crusader Strike - 6 Sec cooldown (again) - 10 yrd range
Lunge at your target dealing 75% weapon damage plus an additional 50% over 4 seconds

(damage should tick 3 times after the initial hit)
Last edited by Proudfoot on Wed Jul 08, 2009 2:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [Ret PVP] 3.2 Changes announced...thoughts?

Postby Robbo » Thu Jul 02, 2009 5:49 pm

bub64882 wrote:
Proudfoot wrote:I had an idea that I think would work for PVE and PVP and would be fun!!

Crusader Strike - 6 Sec cooldown (again) - 10 yrd range
Lunge at your target dealing 60% weapon damage plus an additional 60% over 4 seconds and slowing their movement speed by 15%.

(damage should tick 3 times after the initial hit)

Good? Bad? to much mobility?


OP for PVP, which I would love for the 48 hours it takes them to hotfix it. :)

According to devs, we are balanced for PVP without a closer or a snare (beyond JudgeJustice and Hammer).


I'd also say that PoJ and HoF are also why we have no snare (to a larger extent).
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Re: [Ret PVP] 3.2 Changes announced...thoughts?

Postby Elsie » Mon Jul 06, 2009 7:02 am

I'd also say that PoJ and HoF are also why we have no snare (to a larger extent).

Hand of freedom yes, PoJ no. Otherwise rogues wouldn't get a slow.

Come to think of it, rogues have +15% run speed, cc breaks similar to hof, and sprint, and an interrupt. Hm.
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Re: [Ret PVP] 3.2 Changes announced...thoughts?

Postby Chronotriggerjm » Wed Jul 08, 2009 10:54 am

A few things to mention.

1.) I think I kind of disagree with the whole "faceroll", "easy class", yada yada yada. Every time I get one of these yahoo's, I just remind them that the boomkin is standing in the back, next to the mage... so STFU. We at least have to move :P

2.) I made the comment about getting a sudden death proc because it would be a whole lot more "fun" in my opinion. You can't honestly say you've never let a mob at 20% health run away and gain 20 yards before hammering him into oblivion. I don't know what it is about the HoW, but it's intoxicating to use! I think it would be nice to have some moves that you can use "randomly" to help break that mundane cycle of spam.

And think of it this way, what if say the buff would last 10 seconds when it procs, giving you a 10 second window to use it whenever you feel. Since it's a ranged attack I'm sure you can imagine the uses. Thinking of it in retro-spec now, maybe that would make our job too much fun :P
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Re: [Ret PVP] 3.2 Changes announced...thoughts?

Postby Jedah » Mon Jul 13, 2009 6:58 am

Chronotriggerjm wrote: You can't honestly say you've never let a mob at 20% health run away and gain 20 yards before hammering him into oblivion.


I do this as much as possible :D
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Re: [Ret PVP] 3.2 Changes announced...thoughts?

Postby Punkss2 » Mon Jul 13, 2009 5:06 pm

IMHO Ret is really easy to play now. Once you dowload the SHIT addon its all gravy. All you need to do is know when to move out of the bad stuff and that's something every class "SHOULD" know how to do.
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Re: [Ret PVP] 3.2 Changes announced...thoughts?

Postby Robbo » Tue Jul 14, 2009 8:52 am

Punkss2 wrote:IMHO Ret is really easy to play now. Once you dowload the SHIT addon its all gravy. All you need to do is know when to move out of the bad stuff and that's something every class "SHOULD" know how to do.


I hate that addon T_T
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Re: [Ret PVP] 3.2 Changes announced...thoughts?

Postby Punkss2 » Tue Jul 14, 2009 5:02 pm

Robbo wrote:
Punkss2 wrote:IMHO Ret is really easy to play now. Once you dowload the SHIT addon its all gravy. All you need to do is know when to move out of the bad stuff and that's something every class "SHOULD" know how to do.


I hate that addon T_T


LOL why? You set the rotation up yourself. I find it helpful to manage cooldown clashes. Meh, too each their own :)
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