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[Ret PVP] 3.2 Changes announced...thoughts?

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Re: [Ret PVP] 3.2 Changes announced...thoughts?

Postby bub64882 » Fri Jun 19, 2009 11:47 am

Lore wrote:Art of War/Exo change is almost completely meaningless when you take into consideration that it'll probably still have its 15 second cooldown. By the time 15 seconds have passed, I'll have done anywhere between 2-3 Crusader Strikes, 1-2 Divine Storms, and 1-2 Judgements. If Art of War isn't up by then, I'm doing something very wrong.

I am kind of curious what they meant by Art of War only applying to melee critical hits though.


Really good point. I totally spaced the cooldown. Yeah, they really aren't making the priority system anymore interesting, they are just ensuring we will cast exorcism a lot less. Sucks. Did they say if it is still a guaranteed crit on undead and demons?
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Re: [Ret PVP] 3.2 Changes announced...thoughts?

Postby Elsie » Fri Jun 19, 2009 11:55 am

Hmm. Realistically, Crusader strike procs a 1s GCD, then you'd want Judgment (1 or 1.5s) then Divine Storm (1s). Realistically, you can't fit another CD in here due to lag. So you're going to be going CS -> 2 abilities -> CS. That's four seconds. Now, we only have DS, J, Cons, and Exo to fill that. That means if we do CS -> J, DS -> CS -> Cons, Exo -> CS -> J we won't be DS here. since it's only been 7-8 seconds.

Really good point. I totally spaced the cooldown. Yeah, they really aren't making the priority system anymore interesting, they are just ensuring we will cast exorcism a lot less. Sucks. Did they say if it is still a guaranteed crit on undead and demons?

It's a very big PvP change. Right now crusader strike is our biggest burst move. Now, in exchange, we have a ranged nuke.
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Re: [Ret PVP] 3.2 Changes announced...thoughts?

Postby Lore » Fri Jun 19, 2009 12:38 pm

GCD is 1.5 seconds on CS, DS, and Judgement.

Yeah, they really aren't making the priority system anymore interesting, they are just ensuring we will cast exorcism a lot less.


Not even that, we'll still cast Exorcism just as much as we do now.
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Re: [Ret PVP] 3.2 Changes announced...thoughts?

Postby bub64882 » Fri Jun 19, 2009 1:17 pm

Lore wrote:GCD is 1.5 seconds on CS, DS, and Judgement.

Yeah, they really aren't making the priority system anymore interesting, they are just ensuring we will cast exorcism a lot less.


Not even that, we'll still cast Exorcism just as much as we do now.


Hmmm...maybe, but it's instant now, so I cast it when I run in, or movement phases, or to pull a mob to me...I can't do any of that if there is a cast time. There are also times when I will need to FoL, and will not have exorcism available until the next AoW proc. I dunno for sure till I try it, but it seems it will be used less.
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Re: [Ret PVP] 3.2 Changes announced...thoughts?

Postby Fedaykin98 » Fri Jun 19, 2009 1:47 pm

Lore wrote:GCD is 1.5 seconds on CS, DS, and Judgement.

Yeah, they really aren't making the priority system anymore interesting, they are just ensuring we will cast exorcism a lot less.


Not even that, we'll still cast Exorcism just as much as we do now.


Will we? I think we will cast it somewhat less. Right now, I open with CS > J > DS > Exo back to CS. Now, I might not Crit from a white swing or the two melee abilities prior to Exo, plus I need to CS again just to do the same amount of CS damage I was doing before, which is time that I could have been doing something else. I predict more cooldown clashing. And I'll only be using Exo when AoW is up, which will be a lot of the time but not all of it.

So all this feels like a reduction in overall DPS to me, although it depends what happens with Seals, because the Seal changes could obviously be anything.
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Re: [Ret PVP] 3.2 Changes announced...thoughts?

Postby Lore » Fri Jun 19, 2009 1:48 pm

You're correct in that at the opening we might not have AoW up to cast Exo, at which point we'll skip it (CS will be coming off cooldown in under a GCD at that point anyway, I think). Once it's been cast though, due to the 15 second cooldown, you'll almost definitely have Art of War up when Exorcism comes up.

I actually mapped out the CS>J>DS>Cons>Exo rotation a little bit ago, and there's definitely some more cooldown clashing but not as much as you'd think. It ends up being a 34 second rotation total (ie: after 34 seconds it repeats itself), and there's only a couple times where you end up with more than one ability off of cooldown waiting for GCD.

Also the SoV change alone is going to be a huge increase in DPS. We already have the numbers on that.
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Re: [Ret PVP] 3.2 Changes announced...thoughts?

Postby Baelor » Fri Jun 19, 2009 1:51 pm

Lore wrote:You're correct in that at the opening we might not have AoW up to cast Exo, at which point we'll skip it (CS will be coming off cooldown in under a GCD at that point anyway, I think). Once it's been cast though, due to the 15 second cooldown, you'll almost definitely have Art of War up when Exorcism comes up.

I actually mapped out the CS>J>DS>Cons>Exo rotation a little bit ago, and there's definitely some more cooldown clashing but not as much as you'd think. It ends up being a 34 second rotation total (ie: after 34 seconds it repeats itself), and there's only a couple times where you end up with more than one ability off of cooldown waiting for GCD.

Also the SoV change alone is going to be a huge increase in DPS. We already have the numbers on that.

Lore, gimme your rotation mapping, I wanna see.
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Re: [Ret PVP] 3.2 Changes announced...thoughts?

Postby Lore » Fri Jun 19, 2009 2:01 pm

Leaving work atm which is where it is, won't have access to this computer for a couple days =\
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Re: [Ret PVP] 3.2 Changes announced...thoughts?

Postby Baelor » Fri Jun 19, 2009 2:10 pm

Lore wrote:Leaving work atm which is where it is, won't have access to this computer for a couple days =\

E-mail it to yourself and then forward it to me from home! Bah.

Leaving work now myself, I shall curse your name the entire subway ride home.
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Re: [Ret PVP] 3.2 Changes announced...thoughts?

Postby Keladin » Fri Jun 19, 2009 2:59 pm

I guess if the AoW proc were to reset the cd of exo it would be pretty hawt, and hotfixed in 12 hours so nvm
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Re: [Ret PVP] 3.2 Changes announced...thoughts?

Postby Lore » Mon Jun 22, 2009 7:05 am

The problem with resetting Exo's CD is that I still don't want to hit it if anything else is up at all.

"When this happens, hit this button" abilities only work out when the button you're hitting is better than (almost) everything else.
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Re: [Ret PVP] 3.2 Changes announced...thoughts?

Postby Lore » Mon Jun 22, 2009 7:15 am

Here's the 3.2 rotation mapped out. It's not going to be completely accurate since Exo and Cons GCD's will be lowered by haste, and it assumes that you have AoW up for the first Exo, but it at least gives a good idea. Grey squares are DPS time lost to GCD. The double black line is where it starts to repeat itself. X's are button presses.

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Re: [Ret PVP] 3.2 Changes announced...thoughts?

Postby bub64882 » Mon Jun 22, 2009 11:00 am

Lore wrote:The problem with resetting Exo's CD is that I still don't want to hit it if anything else is up at all.

"When this happens, hit this button" abilities only work out when the button you're hitting is better than (almost) everything else.


Right, which is why if they want it to work out where we have a choice based on a proc, both FoL and Exo need to be instant cast and not trigger the GCD.
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Re: [Ret PVP] 3.2 Changes announced...thoughts?

Postby honorshammer » Mon Jun 22, 2009 11:19 am

bub64882 wrote:
Lore wrote:The problem with resetting Exo's CD is that I still don't want to hit it if anything else is up at all.

"When this happens, hit this button" abilities only work out when the button you're hitting is better than (almost) everything else.


Right, which is why if they want it to work out where we have a choice based on a proc, both FoL and Exo need to be instant cast and not trigger the GCD.


The biggest reason I don't use AoW procs right now is that it resets my swing timer. I don't want that to happen.
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Re: [Ret PVP] 3.2 Changes announced...thoughts?

Postby majiben » Mon Jun 22, 2009 11:20 am

Last I checked they fixed that.
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