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[Ret] FCFS Rotation Discussion

Ret, Holy, PVP, etc

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Re: [Ret] FCFS Rotation Discussion

Postby Argali » Fri Jul 03, 2009 8:13 am

Mana regen also very important. No mana = no dmg.
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Re: [Ret] FCFS Rotation Discussion

Postby Modal » Fri Jul 03, 2009 4:11 pm

Joanadark wrote:
Modal wrote:
Kelaan wrote:Then ... why is Judgement considered higher priority in the canonical ("Cookie-cutter"?) priority espoused by EJ and others here? (CS > Judge > DS) Is that due to longer-term cooldown conflict resolution/avoidance, or what?


I bet that's the theoretical reason for it, but I prioritize Judgement/Divine Plea because if I don't and I keep SS up as well as tossing out an occasional heal, I run oom, especially on fights where I judge light and we have no other pally for wisdom. (I don't run with SoB glyph.)


You'll prolly find that your DPS is higher running with the standard rotation and reglyphing blood, rather than what you are doing.


I'm pretty sure that's not true, or only situationally true. Can you show me math that backs up the idea that the (admittedly small) gain to dps provided by 10% Exo damage boost is less than the (also small) damage loss caused by switching from CS > DS > Judge priority to CS > Judge > DS priority?

I have no problems out-dpsing most of the comparable or better geared ret paladins I raid with, anyway. I manage to not run oom while going all out, just by making sure I use DP (which I guess to be honest I don't prioritize, I just fit it in whenever it's up and all strikes are on CD) and prioritizing Judge after CS. I'd post a WWS parse but I think I'm tanking in all the ones that are up right now.

Anyway glyphing blood will be no help in 3.2, no reason to switch now.
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Re: [Ret] FCFS Rotation Discussion

Postby MrDuck » Thu Jul 16, 2009 1:30 pm

Hey guys, I've happenned to be ret on our XT today, and noticed that DS does more damage for me than CS does. I'm wearing the DS relic, anyway, I just wanted to ask, should I consider swapping CS and DS in priority? Or would it result in more empty GCDs or something.

Here's the parse if anyone's interested: http://not-prepared.eu/sws/sws-xt002-12 ... af276.html
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Re: [Ret] FCFS Rotation Discussion

Postby Joanadark » Thu Jul 16, 2009 1:40 pm

20 hits and 33 hits of each isn't going to give you a good representative sample of the damage potential of the abilities. You could have just gotten more luck with the damage range of Divine Storm in that fight than with CS.
XT is also a bad fight to compare damage abilities, because of the mechanics of the heart. The heart doesnt have armor, so physical abilities are going to do higher damage than magical abilities, and if you happen to crit with one ability on the heart and not with another, the average damage comparison between those abilities will be affected.
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Re: [Ret] FCFS Rotation Discussion

Postby MrDuck » Thu Jul 16, 2009 11:15 pm

Joanadark wrote:20 hits and 33 hits of each isn't going to give you a good representative sample of the damage potential of the abilities. You could have just gotten more luck with the damage range of Divine Storm in that fight than with CS.
XT is also a bad fight to compare damage abilities, because of the mechanics of the heart. The heart doesnt have armor, so physical abilities are going to do higher damage than magical abilities, and if you happen to crit with one ability on the heart and not with another, the average damage comparison between those abilities will be affected.
Well crit and noncrit values there are separated, anyway, checking other logs where i happenned to be ret:
http://not-prepared.eu/sws/sws-auriaya- ... af276.html - divine storm just slightly ahead
http://not-prepared.eu/sws/sws-mimiron- ... af276.html - the same here, DS about 5% more damage per hit

Soo well, I'm also using the pvp gloves for 5% damage to crusader strike, and now that i think about it, i think i have 2xT7 in my rest set to keep the 10% to divine storm. Think I'll keep that bonus 'till i get 4th piece to my ret T8, and prolly replace the gloves. So that affects the values I'm seeing, anyway it seems that if i dropped either the set bonus and the gloves, it looks to me like they should end up pretty much even, shouldn't they? And if so, would it be worth it swapping them in the prio, or moving DS before judgement?
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Re: [Ret] FCFS Rotation Discussion

Postby Kedon » Fri Jul 17, 2009 3:51 am

MrDuck wrote:http://not-prepared.eu/sws/sws-auriaya- ... af276.html - divine storm just slightly ahead
http://not-prepared.eu/sws/sws-mimiron- ... af276.html - the same here, DS about 5% more damage per hit


Auriaya and Mimiron are rather heavy on the aoe so those fights aren't very reliable for comparing CS and DS damage. CS should pull ahead otherwise, even with the T7 2 piece set bonus CS gets higher damage modifiers from talents.
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Re: [Ret] FCFS Rotation Discussion

Postby MrDuck » Fri Jul 17, 2009 4:37 pm

Kedon wrote:Auriaya and Mimiron are rather heavy on the aoe so those fights aren't very reliable for comparing CS and DS damage. CS should pull ahead otherwise, even with the T7 2 piece set bonus CS gets higher damage modifiers from talents.

Well, but AoE or not, when comparing damage per hit, it shouldn't matter right? Ofc the total damage from DS will be higher when there's AoE, but the damage per hit should be unaffected unless I'm missing something :o
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Re: [Ret] FCFS Rotation Discussion

Postby Aubade » Fri Jul 17, 2009 11:37 pm

MrDuck wrote:
Kedon wrote:Auriaya and Mimiron are rather heavy on the aoe so those fights aren't very reliable for comparing CS and DS damage. CS should pull ahead otherwise, even with the T7 2 piece set bonus CS gets higher damage modifiers from talents.

Well, but AoE or not, when comparing damage per hit, it shouldn't matter right? Ofc the total damage from DS will be higher when there's AoE, but the damage per hit should be unaffected unless I'm missing something :o



Hmm, I've found that barring a non-crit DS hits for ALOT more than CS for me, then again i'm using DS libram + 2p T7 and 2pt8. I was seeing upwards of 8k DS crits on single target today, with only 6-7k crits on CS.
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Re: [Ret] FCFS Rotation Discussion

Postby Kedon » Sat Jul 18, 2009 8:26 am

MrDuck wrote:
Kedon wrote:Auriaya and Mimiron are rather heavy on the aoe so those fights aren't very reliable for comparing CS and DS damage. CS should pull ahead otherwise, even with the T7 2 piece set bonus CS gets higher damage modifiers from talents.

Well, but AoE or not, when comparing damage per hit, it shouldn't matter right? Ofc the total damage from DS will be higher when there's AoE, but the damage per hit should be unaffected unless I'm missing something :o


Right, my bad. Wasn't looking at that. Anyway, you would get better results with the Deadly libram and sticking with the normal priority. Two weeks to get the Deadly libram if you and your partner don't totally suck at pvp. :P

As far as changing your priority goes, it's simple enough to test it out on a target dummy to see if it results in more cooldown clashes or if it leaves more empty gcd's. =)
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