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[Warrior] Levelling a new Warrior

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[Warrior] Levelling a new Warrior

Postby Asoka » Mon Jun 08, 2009 2:03 am

Honestly people, is putting some brackets with 1 word in front of your thread title all that difficult? Thread tagged, you mangy sonofabeesting. -Baelor

As do most people, i suffer from that most evil boss known as Websence at work, which with some sneaky trickery i can get round to look at maintankadin at work.
Anywho on point.

So i originally played a warrior back in vanilla and BC, but switched to my pally as a main when wrath came out.
My old warrior was Horde and i have since rerolled ally, and find myself missing my old warrior days, so have decided to lvl myself a new one.

Now most of the warrior stuff i knew has obviously since become drastically out of date.
I will get round to picking it all up again, but focussing on the now i am curious, as to since 3.1 i know Arms to be the top DPS raiding spec with the Tg nerf, im wondering how does this hold pre 80? is fury still the best bet to lvl with, or is arms now level pegging or better?
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Re: Levelling a new Warrior

Postby Levantine » Mon Jun 08, 2009 3:06 am

Not sure it much matters with loom gear.

With the Axe, you pretty much two hit things, with the Swords you make things explode into a fine red mist. :/ I'm thinking the moderate self healing that's to be found in Fury might make it better, but it's not a big difference. Also, Mortal Strike is funtastic with a 3.8 weapon you don't have to replace.
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Re: [Warrior] Levelling a new Warrior

Postby Splug » Mon Jun 08, 2009 9:07 am

Until 60, the Titan's Grip change will be totally irrelevant. Pre-40, you'll get far more out of fury than you will arms. 40-59 it'd be a tough call, but the regeneration you get out of fury is going to make it overall superior. The fury tree is still bottom-heavy, so as you close in on 60 arms is going to look more and more appealing. The big concern I've heard about TG 3.1 is that with low gear levels, the warrior is going to be rage starved - arms does not suffer from that at all, but then while you're leveling you also take damage and thus it's bandaid fixed. It's also worth mentioning that the reason arms is higher raid damage is its syngergy with armor penetration rating. You're not going to realistically have any of that until Northrend, so the raid-game is hard to judge by.

Those thoughts were fairly unorganized, but basically I think you'll find fury much better at low levels, about equal at higher levels, and weaker when you have someone else tanking and thus not taking consistent damage.

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Re: [Warrior] Levelling a new Warrior

Postby blessyou » Mon Jun 08, 2009 9:54 am

I've leveled two warriors to 60+. The first one as Fury before 3.0 and the second one post 3.0 as Arms. Honestly, I've found Arms to be much faster at early levels especially with the Overpower (talents) and mocking blow changes. Add in the two Charge glyphs (major and minor) and you're making great time and killing very fast. There weren't any major changes in the lower part of the Fury tree for 3.0 that I can think of.

Also, if you dont mind spending a few extra gold at first, Improved Thunder clap is great to pick up at very early levels as an instant attack until you have enough points to spend in Arms for the Rend/Overpower proc (forget the name of the talent). And then respec back.

And as stated above, the Heirloom axe is f'ing AMAZING!
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Re: [Warrior] Levelling a new Warrior

Postby fafhrd » Mon Jun 08, 2009 9:49 pm

Splug wrote:Until 60, the Titan's Grip change will be totally irrelevant. Pre-40, you'll get far more out of fury than you will arms. 40-59 it'd be a tough call, but the regeneration you get out of fury is going to make it overall superior. The fury tree is still bottom-heavy, so as you close in on 60 arms is going to look more and more appealing. The big concern I've heard about TG 3.1 is that with low gear levels, the warrior is going to be rage starved - arms does not suffer from that at all, but then while you're leveling you also take damage and thus it's bandaid fixed. It's also worth mentioning that the reason arms is higher raid damage is its syngergy with armor penetration rating. You're not going to realistically have any of that until Northrend, so the raid-game is hard to judge by.

Those thoughts were fairly unorganized, but basically I think you'll find fury much better at low levels, about equal at higher levels, and weaker when you have someone else tanking and thus not taking consistent damage.

-Splug



Even post 3.1, rage wasn't an issue with TG for me until 80 - I was around 75 when 3.1 hit, and while I felt a bit nerfed at 75, as soon as I hit 76 I was doing more damage post nerf than i'd been doing at 75 pre-nerf anyway.

TG really is rigged, even now - you go from being at full rage after several mobs at 59 without TG to full rage after 1 mob at 60 with TG (and dual BoA axes) to full rage within seconds of intercepting a mob at 79.

At 80 though it's noticeable - the same mobs I was killing in icecrown at 79 suddenly became *harder* to kill as soon as I dinged 80, because I was getting less rage from hitting them (and probably less rage from being hit by them too).

The changes to the overpower glyph and TFB probably make arms less face-clawingly frustrating to level with since I last tried, but I still think fury with all the self-healing and aoe talents/glyphs and BoA gear is better levelling. Especially with the recent reduction in Bloodthirst cooldown and rage, the rate at which you heal yourself as fury is ridiculous.

A lot of the awesomeness of fury goes away as soon as you hit 80 and stop soloing though, since you don't get blood craze and enrage up constantly, and you probably won't have enough rage to use everything and dump HS. The ulduar fights where warriors get fed excess rage enough to be dumping it on HSs continuously seem to have have fury doing incredibly well even post nerf.
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Re: [Warrior] Levelling a new Warrior

Postby Asoka » Wed Jun 10, 2009 12:11 am

Honestly people, is putting some brackets with 1 word in front of your thread title all that difficult? Thread tagged, you mangy sonofabeesting. -Baelor

see now perhaps i intentionaly missed the initial word just to envoke a responce such as this :D tis nice to bring a little color to a post.

Thanks for the info folks, been using my main to instance boost me to 60 anyway (recruit a friend ftw) but ill be levelling the old fasioned way from 60-80 if only to refamiliarise myself with the class a little.
I'm leveling with a druid chum so the offhealing from fury isn't gonna be too big of a thing, but the extra aoe on the "Kill sick amount of mobs" type quest from fury id of thought would be more beneficial so reakon i'll go with that.

Left myself as arms so far if only to get the 2 handed weapon skill up as i go
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Re: [Warrior] Levelling a new Warrior

Postby Bundy » Sat Jun 20, 2009 9:10 am

I leveled my warrior with fury before they changed shit around. This was back when bladestorm hit ALL the mobs and maces spec still stunned. Fury was good to me, but now that they gave arms an actual benefit (Armor Penetration) and further increased the talents with more crits and procs, its very nice to lvl with.

How many times do you actualy fight more than 2 mobs at a time? Shouldnt be too often, so sweeping strikes every 30secs gets it done. And when you do have a larger group or 3-4, bladestorm takes care of that in 1 shot. I havnt gone back to fury in a while and was actualy thinking about trying it out again, but I sold my other 2H so I only have the one and thus, fury is not an option at the moment. But the "self healing" of fury is not good enough for me, Arms has self healing too you know, ever heard of second wind? lol

Dont completly rule out prot though, once you get shockwave you can AOE grind the hell outta some stuff. I can take on 10-15 mobs and barely be phased.
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Re: [Warrior] Levelling a new Warrior

Postby fafhrd » Sat Jun 20, 2009 4:05 pm

Well, if you want to, you can fight 2 or more mobs continually, all you need to do pick a place where mobs #3-4 are within intercept range of the first 2 you charge into.

Arms self-healing doesn't even remotely compare. Bloodthirst is 6% hp every 4 seconds (glyphed, because there's only 1 good fury glyph aside from it while levelling), so 1.5% hp every second. And bloodcraze is another 1% per second whenever you get crit, which is all the time if you pull enough mobs.

Arms healing on the other hand (Second wind) is 1% hp per second after you get stunned or rooted, which happens like, 5 times total between level 1 and 80.

So yes, if you want to level by charging 1 or 2 mobs at a time, arms aoe is awesome. If you want to pull enough mobs to use the continuous healing and aoe fury allows, fury will do it a lot better.

End of the day though, I guess both are fine for levelling and you can pick whichever you like and adjust your levelling style appropriately.
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Re: [Warrior] Levelling a new Warrior

Postby Bundy » Sun Jun 21, 2009 12:34 am

Are you talking about AOE Grinding the whole way, 20-80? lol... I assumed you were talking about actauly doing quests. When doing quests there isnt always going to be groups of 3 or 4 bunched up. And i know Second Wind isnt as overall good as Bloodthirst for self healing, but it is 10% of your hp plus rage everytime your stunned or incapacitaed in anyway. It may not happen often, but it still does. Bottom line is arms gives more damage with no penalty, while fury gives more damage with an incoming damage penalty.

I never used a mod to calculate dps or downtime or anything like that so I dont know exact numbers, I just know arms is a viable option and can be fun. But 6% hp every 4 secs sounds awesome, they didnt have glyphs when I was leveling with fury so it was only 3% and the CD was longer back then too, so it wasnt that good, just ok. I guess fury is probly better overall, im gonna give it another try when I get another 2 Hander. Of course I dont really do much AOE grinding and when I do, I do it as Prot. I can easily take 10-15 guys at a time and Thunderclap/Shockwave hits everybody.

God I wish they didnt nerf bladestormn to only hit 4 people, thats the lamest thing I ever saw honeslty.
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Re: [Warrior] Levelling a new Warrior

Postby Asoka » Mon Jun 22, 2009 1:57 am

Well ended up going as arms, not using charge for that initial rage and the lack of rage from fury was killin me.
Done well so far, got to 73, and with the druid im levelin alongside poppin hots on em the self healing wasnt an issue.
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Re: [Warrior] Levelling a new Warrior

Postby fafhrd » Mon Jun 22, 2009 10:09 am

Bundy wrote:Are you talking about AOE Grinding the whole way, 20-80?


Not really. Pre-outlands finding densely packed quest mobs wasn't a problem, especially in places like hinterlands/tanaris/EPL/WPL - sure there's probably only 2 actual quest mobs in the group, but you might as well kill their 5 friends who are waiting in intercept range for you. Outlands and northrend are more spread out but you kill a lot quicker by then too.

And definitely not 20-80, I don't even remember 20-40 it was like 3 years ago. Think I was still DW fury and killed things slower than my lower level rogue could with just autoattack. Fury without whirlwind and DPS talents blows :(

There are a couple spots where just grinding is faster than questing though (note: instancing is probably even faster if you have the quests for them, so I'm not saying "do this to level at max speed!"). The infinite zerg of vrykul charging the eastern alliance starting zone (valgarde?) for instance if you're rested, no corpses to loot or skin, no risk of dying because you're literally at the gates of a town full of guards, and as many mobs running to you as you want to pick up, giving you full XP if you damage them more than the guards do. You can probably do this kind of thing with prot just fine though, especially with new stuff like warbringer.

And yeah, doing stuff as prot is awesome while levelling :D I didn't have dualspec while levelling so "prot" basically mean switching stances and putting on tank gear, but shield slam revenge thunderclap are all soo satisfying now :D
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Re: [Warrior] Levelling a new Warrior

Postby Jedah » Tue Jun 23, 2009 11:06 am

Can’t really tell you about leveling post 3.1, other than the fact that bloodthirst combined with glyph of bloodthirst = a lot of self healing which leads to decreased/no downtime. That alone is very significant.

Raid DPS at 80 is a different story. Arms is clearly the superior DPS spec until you are full Ulduar geared (i.e. 40% ArP unbuffed). It’s really that cut and dry.
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Re: [Warrior] Levelling a new Warrior

Postby Chronotriggerjm » Thu Jun 25, 2009 9:26 am

At the end of the day however, when all is said and geared, I still find Arms to be 500% more fun than Fury. I say level arms!
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Re: [Warrior] Levelling a new Warrior

Postby Jedah » Thu Jun 25, 2009 10:58 am

Chronotriggerjm wrote:At the end of the day however, when all is said and geared, I still find Arms to be 500% more fun than Fury. I say level arms!


The fact that slam is a staple of Arms DPS, and the only melee attack in existance that has a cast time, is poor design and definitely not fun. Unfortunately, I still play arms because I can't break 5k dps as fury anymore.
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Re: [Warrior] Levelling a new Warrior

Postby Spectrum » Thu Jun 25, 2009 11:35 am

I'm currently leveling my warrior. She's 75 now.

I had played her as Fury pre-3.1 (she was 60 in BC, decided to try her out again) because that's what everyone said I should do. It was miserable. I sat around most of the time waiting for Whirlwind and Blood-thing to come off cooldown so I could hit the mobs, or waiting for enough rage to use them. I quickly got bored and she didn't get past 62.

Post 3.1, with a free talent respec, I gave arms a shot. It was awesome! Stuff was dying in <10 seconds almost every time. It's great to run around with a huge weapon, run up to stuff, Rend + MS + Overpower + Execute, and have a dead mob. It's way more interactive and fun than Fury, in my opinion. With Slam you almost always have a button to press and I rarely feel rage starved.

IMO: Arms is way more fun, and you'll only have to waste your time with one BoA axe so you can buy four epic gems instead.
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