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[Ret] Libram of Discord?

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[Ret] Libram of Discord?

Postby Fedaykin98 » Mon Jun 01, 2009 11:45 am

Drops from Razorscale in U25, adds like 234 Damage to your Divine Storms. Gear ranking tools like Rawr and MaxDPS seem to be totally out to lunch on Librams, so I'm wondering how this compares to the Crusader Strike Libram from Naxx25, and to the Deadly and Furious Librams.

It was rotting this weekend, so I took it, but I haven't used it.
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Re: [Ret] Libram of Discord?

Postby katraya » Mon Jun 01, 2009 12:12 pm

I may be wrong, but I believe it is bellow the 2 pvp librams and the CS one from Naxx. I'm currently using it because I had the one from the goblin dailies but I should probably get the Naxx/badge one for now and then get off my butt and pvp for the old season one. The requirement and points needed are quite reasonable, I just don't pvp.
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Re: [Ret] Libram of Discord?

Postby Invisusira » Mon Jun 01, 2009 12:17 pm

The CS one from Naxx (and, now, badges) is way better.
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Re: [Ret] Libram of Discord?

Postby Dorvan » Mon Jun 01, 2009 12:47 pm

Incorrect, the DS one is better the the CS one from Naxx. It's relatively easy to see this, as this back-of-the-envelope math shows:

CS libram
115 damage/6 seconds = 19.16 DPS

DS libram
235 damage/10 seconds = 23.5 DPS

Put another way, the effective cooldown of DS would have to be 235/19.16 = 12.25 seconds for the CS libram to catch up.

Now this calculation leave out a lot of things like crit and misses, but as those effectboth librams equally it shouldn't make any difference in the ranking of the two librams.

Evaluating the PvP librams is trickier, but last I checked in wow the Furious libram is definitely BiS, and I believe the Deadly libram beats out the Ulduar libram as well (though I'd double check with others on that last point).
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Re: [Ret] Libram of Discord?

Postby Angelarc6570 » Mon Jun 01, 2009 1:45 pm

But doesnt CS provide more Base Damage (some odd like 126% where as DS gives like 110% weapon damage?) I may be wrong, but that would put the CS libram still much better, but I still used the DS libram for AoE Trash pulls as best I could remember to switch. Now, I have the Deadly Libram, which I love, but still believe the CS libram is a step above for Boss/Single target mobs, Discord for AoE, especially with CS having the lower CD.

But I may be wrong :D :lol:
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Re: [Ret] Libram of Discord?

Postby Dorvan » Mon Jun 01, 2009 1:49 pm

I forgot sanctity of battle, which does give the CS libram a 15% relative boost. That still leaves the CS libram slightly behind the DS one, with the cutoff point for the DS effective cooldown at 10.66 seconds (assuming a perfect 6 second cooldown for CS, of course).
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Re: [Ret] Libram of Discord?

Postby Argali » Mon Jun 01, 2009 5:22 pm

With the FCFS system, won't be there be wasted Divine Storm CD's when you're CS'ing or consecrating instead of DS'ing, pushing the cutoff CD time even more?
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Re: [Ret] Libram of Discord?

Postby Dorvan » Mon Jun 01, 2009 10:13 pm

Argali wrote:With the FCFS system, won't be there be wasted Divine Storm CD's when you're CS'ing or consecrating instead of DS'ing, pushing the cutoff CD time even more?


No, the cutoff CD is exactly what that's talking about. In other words, it's saying that DS wins as long as you're using it at least every 10.66 seconds on average. In reality, the cutoff is slightly less strict as most players don't get a perfect 6 second cooldown on CS in practice.
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Re: [Ret] Libram of Discord?

Postby semp » Tue Jun 02, 2009 5:32 am

Also need to think about aoe encounters, which then puts the DS libram far above the CS.
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Re: [Ret] Libram of Discord?

Postby Robbo » Tue Jun 02, 2009 9:05 am

I hate saying this (pvp'ing for pve gear is fail imo), but since its only 1250 rating to get the deadly libram now, you should really do that, as its better than both the pve librams.
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Re: [Ret] Libram of Discord?

Postby Fedaykin98 » Tue Jun 02, 2009 11:26 am

Robbo wrote:I hate saying this (pvp'ing for pve gear is fail imo), but since its only 1250 rating to get the deadly libram now, you should really do that, as its better than both the pve librams.


This is true, and I might pick it up today.

The funny thing is that based on the proc, I wonder if Discord isn't better for PvP than Deadly is, where Deadly is better for PvE. I thought Blizz stopped putting must-have for PvE items into Arena? =/
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Re: [Ret] Libram of Discord?

Postby Angelarc6570 » Tue Jun 02, 2009 2:19 pm

Fedaykin98 wrote:
Robbo wrote:I hate saying this (pvp'ing for pve gear is fail imo), but since its only 1250 rating to get the deadly libram now, you should really do that, as its better than both the pve librams.


This is true, and I might pick it up today.

The funny thing is that based on the proc, I wonder if Discord isn't better for PvP than Deadly is, where Deadly is better for PvE. I thought Blizz stopped putting must-have for PvE items into Arena? =/


Not really, b/c the proc lasts for a good 10 -12 seconds and its always after you use CS, so it should almost always be up, buffing all your attacks/heals as oppose to just a few.
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Re: [Ret] Libram of Discord?

Postby amh » Wed Jun 03, 2009 12:56 am

Angelarc6570 wrote:
Fedaykin98 wrote:
Robbo wrote:I hate saying this (pvp'ing for pve gear is fail imo), but since its only 1250 rating to get the deadly libram now, you should really do that, as its better than both the pve librams.


This is true, and I might pick it up today.

The funny thing is that based on the proc, I wonder if Discord isn't better for PvP than Deadly is, where Deadly is better for PvE. I thought Blizz stopped putting must-have for PvE items into Arena? =/


Not really, b/c the proc lasts for a good 10 -12 seconds and its always after you use CS, so it should almost always be up, buffing all your attacks/heals as oppose to just a few.


Had a chat with out resident retribution-paladin about this the other day. His impression is that the pvp-libram is better for pve, and pve-libram for pvp. Reason being that the pvp-libram provides higher overall dps, but the pve-libram provides burst. I can definitely see where he´s coming from.
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Re: [Ret] Libram of Discord?

Postby Robbo » Wed Jun 03, 2009 2:14 am

I'm not one for maths, but simple logic says to me that you'll get better burst from the 120ap. Cause bursting isn't about using just one attack.
Getting a little offtopic though I suppose.
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Re: [Ret] Libram of Discord?

Postby Fedaykin98 » Wed Jun 03, 2009 7:59 am

My thinking was exactly what amh's friend said. I did pick up the Deadly last night to help with Ulduar 10 hard modes, btw.

I figure that while the Deadly/Furious is the best when you have many guaranteed successive hits, either Radiance (CS) or Discord (DS) provides a boost to damage *right this second*. PvP Libram will only be up for your CS swings when you have CS'ed recently - it will never be up for your opener, or coming out of being CC'ed, rooted, etc.

Just some thinking. Not sure what I'll use for PVP in the future, but the Deadly is definitely in my PvE set now.
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