[DK] The DK Tanking thread

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Re: [DK] The DK Tanking thread

Postby Baelor » Thu Sep 17, 2009 8:13 pm

Levantine wrote:I'm gunna assume that post's a joke, playing into the stereotype of Death Knights being fairly retarded.

While I am not in a position to comment on the quality of TonicTank's questions, it is in bad taste to summarily dismiss a question in this manner. Please refrain from doing so in the future.
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Re: [DK] The DK Tanking thread

Postby Levantine » Thu Sep 17, 2009 8:33 pm

Since I got told off for calling the joke posts, I'll now go through it in a fashion that would surely score me a 3 day ban on Elitist Jerks for horrible formatting.

TonicTank wrote:I have a talent question for you guys. I am currently 13/54/0

For starters I would advise you to spend the entire 71 points you have access to (13+54=67), and to make sure you're getting the Big4 Death Knight tank talents. (Blade Barrier, Toughness, Anticipation, Improved Icy Touch)

TonicTank wrote:would it benefit me more to spec into unholy for the extended disease time, SS crit, spell hit, and DnD cool down as opposed to my blood talents?

Frost tanks do not possess SS, Epidemic is a very good place to spend points. Morbidity is acceptable for Heroic farming in Frost specs. Virulence is a very poor talent point investment for Frost tanks. Since you noted you're mostly in Heroics, which are a giant AoE clusterfuck, I see no reason to move points from the Blood subspec to an Unholy one, especially with the Glyph of Howling Blast, allowing you to run a single disease spec for trash. Scent of Blood, Bladed Armor and 2HWS are all good threat generators for Frost.

TonicTank wrote:My armory link is tied to my signature, any advice or information would be appreciated. Thanks :D

And this right here is what tipped me off to this being a joke instead of a total retard Death Knight, since his armory is of someone who has the basic idea of how to spec and gear.
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Re: [DK] The DK Tanking thread

Postby Kiorken » Fri Sep 18, 2009 10:00 am

Maddok wrote:So Naxx[10] went pretty smooth, anybody have any hints or suggestions for an addon or something else to help manage a rotation (Frost Tank Specced incase it matters)?


I can recommend this addon, Face Smasher, but its *usually* associated with highest dps. The catch, it gives you two options. One for single target high dps, and one for AOE target high DPS. As you are looking to keep up your TPS, often opting for the AOE DPS choice can help you AOE tank. It takes into account your spec, and has options for how you want to customize it. (Like if you want it to recommend using IT for death runes, etc). If you want to produce good dps/tps, this is a good addon
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Re: [DK] The DK Tanking thread

Postby fuzzygeek » Fri Sep 18, 2009 10:37 am

I've been working on my DK for a little over two weeks now; have tanked two ToC10s. Was 2h Frost, last night tried DW Frost. I wasn't very pleased with my TPS, but not sure if it's just because I was DWing iLvl 200 weapons (Red Courage and Champion's Seal Axe); previously I'd been tanking with the 219 weapon from hToC and was doing ok.

Spec and glyphs:
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#j0xbZhge ... 0xh:aoT0MV
(7/56/8 // Oblit/DnD/HB)

Armory: http://www.wowarmory.com/character-shee ... hadowraith

I didn't have the defense last night to use the VibroBlade (currently farming for a second; also farming U10 FL and XL for their 2Hers and ToC10 for a pair of Ardent Guards ...

I tend to DnD -> IT/HB on the pull, followed by Blood Boil on AoE packs, else I'll start with the Obliterates and Blood Strikes, with Frost Strike as a dump.

I find myself sitting for 1-2 GCDs waiting for runes to come up, which I'm told is fairly normal for a DK. Are my threat issues just gear related -- I was tanking for people in mostly 245 (had trouble specifically with a lock and a boomkin) -- or am I doing it wrong?
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Re: [DK] The DK Tanking thread

Postby KysenMurrin » Fri Sep 18, 2009 10:46 am

Dual wielding, you're likely to have threat problems with fast weapons. Your strikes will be hitting for significantly less, and there just aren't many slow tanking weapons. You might want to compromise and use a slow dps weapon in your main hand.
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Re: [DK] The DK Tanking thread

Postby fuzzygeek » Fri Sep 18, 2009 11:17 am

KysenMurrin wrote:Dual wielding, you're likely to have threat problems with fast weapons. Your strikes will be hitting for significantly less, and there just aren't many slow tanking weapons. You might want to compromise and use a slow dps weapon in your main hand.


Hmm. So slow DPS weapons for DW Tanking, and make up for the lost Def with a def trinket?

That's unfortunate. Guess I'll have to go back to 2h.
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Re: [DK] The DK Tanking thread

Postby amh » Fri Sep 18, 2009 1:45 pm

Have you macroed Rune Strike to a couple of spammable abilities? I have it on HS and PS, just so I can mash those between GCDs to get RS going. Leave it off a couple of other abilities so you can still generate RP in a pinch (in my case, IT and DS).

Edit: How come you have the DnD-glyph? Unless we're specifically talking aoe-threat, I would rather glyph for RS or Frost Strike for single target threat.
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Re: [DK] The DK Tanking thread

Postby fuzzygeek » Fri Sep 18, 2009 2:55 pm

I have Rune Strike macroed to pretty much everything but IT; I don't use DS generally, except in specific situations (e.g., tanking Anub).

I feel like I'm as reliant on DnD as a 2.0 paladin was on Consecrate. I try to keep it down all the time, and a static 20% on DnD seemed more worthwhile than cost on FS or 10% crit chance on RS ... I don't know if the math says otherwise?

I'm pretty much done running heroics on this char so don't mind swapping out the DnD glyph if something else is going to be more useful. I just haven't found a site with as much condensed DK tanking theorycraft as this side; googling turns up a bunch of slobbering DPS epeen strokers or old (outdated?) posts dumping on DW, etc.
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Re: [DK] The DK Tanking thread

Postby amh » Fri Sep 18, 2009 6:56 pm

If in doubt, always check (stalk) Splug's armory. Might get unlucky and get some sort of experimental build, but it's usually good.

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-tale ... te&group=1

(HB, FS and Obliterate-glyphs)
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Re: [DK] The DK Tanking thread

Postby Levantine » Fri Sep 18, 2009 7:31 pm

IMPORTANT NOTE!

It'll probably be good to use the Rune Strike glyph after the patch when Rune Strike is added to Threat of Thassarian, until then it's probably the worst threat glyph.
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Re: [DK] The DK Tanking thread

Postby TonicTank » Sat Sep 19, 2009 12:06 am

Levantine wrote:Saving you brain from confusion


I apologise Lev. It was 3am here in Iraq and I was running on a monster and chips.

My spec is in my sig I dont remember being at work and the image is blocked.

I mean PS and not SS.

I put together a new spec in the calculators on wowhead last night keeping 2HWS but putting the remaining points into the unholy tree. I am probably going to switch to this spec tonight. It seems more viable for my current instance groups.

Also, I am having a slight threat issue, I know there are still huge upgrades for me to get but people should climb up on me in threat like they do. My rotation is:

IT>PS>Pest>BB>HC=FS>HB>repeat multiple
IT>PS>BS>BS>FS>FS>OB>BS single

It seems to me like a good rotation, uses rune cooldowns effectively and still uses RS to proc my sigil. Maybe my latency is finally getting the best of me.

Thanks for the help Lev and sorry for the confusion.
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Re: [DK] The DK Tanking thread

Postby Levantine » Sat Sep 19, 2009 4:51 pm

You're overcomplicating your AoE rotation somewhat. Frost has it the easiest in this regard, in that our AoE rotation is probably the simplest of the three specs.

HB -> DnD -> BB (This assumes the Glyph of Howling Blast)

I would personally recommend THIS as a balanced spec between AoE and Single Target. Bladed Armor is your best threat investment beside Annihilation and Frost Strike at low gear levels, PLEASE don't get rid of it. Scent of Blood keeps the Rune Strike spam happening which is important when Frost tanks like to spam their runic power dump.

Single taget threat rotations go something like:

PS -> IT -> BS -> BS -> OB -> Dump
OB -> OB -> OB -> Dump

But what it really boils down to is keeping diseases up, keeping your Blood Runes on cooldown, and spamming Obliterate/Frost Strike. Macro Rune Strike to everything, it accounts for a majority of your threat as a tank on a standard fight (Standard as in not a stinky caster that your threat's GOING to suck against).
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Re: [DK] The DK Tanking thread

Postby Fenris » Fri Sep 25, 2009 2:56 am

I need a few advice

First one,on equip upgrades http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=runetotem&n=chilled

I'm sitting there with 53 emblems of triumph but i dont know what to take
-Sigil?Sure,it would be a huge upgrade over the heroism one
-Another pice of T9?The legs are a nice upgrade but i fall well under the expertise cap if i change them...Is it worth it,since i already feel quite weak in single target threat?
-And third...Should i switch the mh peacekeeper with an adelaar battlestar? (again,threat problems,this should help )

The second one is on aoe rotations...I usually start HB->DnD->BB-> then i get lost in the runes reloading and i just keep burning them as i can;what's the best way to use them at that point?
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Re: [DK] The DK Tanking thread

Postby Levantine » Fri Sep 25, 2009 5:45 am

Your armory link is the brokens, but you've pretty much got the AoE rotation down pat. :3 It's basically just use whatever you can in a priority similar to:

Frost Fever (Generally through liberal use of Howling Blast) > Blade Barrier > Death and Decay > Howling Blast > Obliterate (Rime procs quite a bit
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Re: [DK] The DK Tanking thread

Postby Fenris » Fri Sep 25, 2009 5:52 am

Meh,seems the eu armory is going up and down every few minutes :roll:

This http://armorylite.com/eu/runetotem/chilled one should work,but armorylite has all the spec messed up after 3.2 changes
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Re: [DK] The DK Tanking thread

Postby Levantine » Fri Sep 25, 2009 6:03 am

Fix your Hodir rep.

If you can get into a Nax25 get yourself a Broken Promise, failing that, even a 1.6 speed weapon will be a noticeable threat upgrade. Worst case scenario is getting yourself a Battlestar.

Ghetto trinkets. Get a Black Heart; the armor proc will be better for you in most fights, and there's always the option of swapping to dual ghettos for supermagicPOW fights.

I'd probably get the sigil next. The proc is love~ and will help muchly with threat gen (from more Runestrike procs)
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Re: [DK] The DK Tanking thread

Postby Fenris » Fri Sep 25, 2009 6:21 am

Sadly i have quite a bad luck with drops,so never seen a black heart(i was running around with Goosammer + Sonic booster before the brewfest :roll: )

Guess i'll get the sigil then,and wait a bit more to see if i can sneak into any raid for other upgrades
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Re: [DK] The DK Tanking thread

Postby Fenris » Tue Oct 27, 2009 7:36 am

1 month later...

Still no luck with weapon drops (nor with trinkets),i managed to collect something anyway

So,now i have,sitting in my bag

-new bracers (dreadscale bracers 232)
-new chest (chestplate of the warden)
-new gloves (t9.0)
-95 emblem of triumph

So i was thinking how to swap thing around and i ended up with this plan http://www.chardev.org/?profile=244204
Still,i'm not sure this is the best upgrade path :?
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Re: [DK] The DK Tanking thread

Postby Ballador » Wed Dec 02, 2009 3:13 pm

BACK TO THE TOP!!!... j/k

What I'm looking for is a Heroic only tank spec. I'm looking to play my DK as DPS but in order to do that I need gear and to get gear I need badges. This wont be my main so regularly raiding for gear drops is not something I have time for. I know what you’re thinking. Why don't I just run heroics as DPS? And the short answer to that is I'm just 1 Plate DPS in an ocean of plate DPS. So I'm hoping, being able to tank will make me more appealing.

This post does looking promising but I’m at work so I can’t check out the wowhead link till I get home.
Levantine wrote:You're overcomplicating your AoE rotation somewhat. Frost has it the easiest in this regard, in that our AoE rotation is probably the simplest of the three specs.

HB -> DnD -> BB (This assumes the Glyph of Howling Blast)

I would personally recommend THIS as a balanced spec between AoE and Single Target. Bladed Armor is your best threat investment beside Annihilation and Frost Strike at low gear levels, PLEASE don't get rid of it. Scent of Blood keeps the Rune Strike spam happening which is important when Frost tanks like to spam their runic power dump.

Single taget threat rotations go something like:

PS -> IT -> BS -> BS -> OB -> Dump
OB -> OB -> OB -> Dump

But what it really boils down to is keeping diseases up, keeping your Blood Runes on cooldown, and spamming Obliterate/Frost Strike. Macro Rune Strike to everything, it accounts for a majority of your threat as a tank on a standard fight (Standard as in not a stinky caster that your threat's GOING to suck against).


What I’m looking for from the spec is to make holding agro and taking hits as loleasymode as possible similar to my pally.(I know it wont be as easy but that’s fine :)

Any Talent tree is fine, DW or 2H don’t care have weapons for both but defence cap could be an issue so 2H with Stoneskin will be proffered, gear will prolly be 200ilvl epic if it matters(Weapons are 219)

What Glyphs?
What Rotation/FCFS for trash/boss?

TL;DR: I’m looking for a spec/rotation designed for only heroics raid tanking is not something I want to do on my DK. If what I’m looking for is what lev has already posted great if there is something I could change given my gear and what I’m looking to do please tell me.
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Re: [DK] The DK Tanking thread

Postby Levantine » Thu Dec 03, 2009 4:11 am

You should have waited until you got home. Now I'm going to troll you for being stupid and impatient when everything you asked for was in the post of mine you quoted.

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Re: [DK] The DK Tanking thread

Postby cerwillis » Thu Dec 03, 2009 9:03 am

My DK tank was very happily DW frost. Last night, I got the cleaver from h HoL, and I was feeling a bit squishy on Koralon, so I runeforged stoneskin gargoyle and replaced some defense gems with stamina, adding about 3k hp. I assume that I can stay frost, even with a 2h, but I guess I need suggestions for how to modify my spec, at least until the DW def 'forge comes out. I'm using a 10/56/5 spec that I picked up from this thread iirc. Armory link in sig, and ty for any advice.
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Re: [DK] The DK Tanking thread

Postby Shoju » Thu Dec 03, 2009 9:11 am

Well, My DK (link in sig) is the pretty standard cookie cutter 15/51/5 Frost tank build. You can cut points out of Bladed Armor to pick up a lower Cooldown on Death and Decay and/or longer diseases.


I can see a case for the quicker DND, and sometimes I wish I had it, but I don't see the point in longer diseases especially on trash where I Howling Blast as often as I can, and only use 1 disease on trash.
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Re: [DK] The DK Tanking thread

Postby Alixander » Thu Dec 03, 2009 11:41 am

IMO, you don't need a lower cooldown on DnD. When I was tanking on my DK (frost as well with a 15/51/5 spec too), most of my AOE threat was created via Howling Blast. 8 second cooldown with possibly more if you get a Rime proc, plus it can crit every target if you have a Killing Machine proc up. I'd rather use HB over DnD for threat generation any day of the week.

Personally, I find 21 second diseases to be unwieldy and wasteful. Either way you're refreshing your disease(s) every rotation, only instead you're doing it at the end instead of the start. I mean with a 21 second disease you could technically try to get the disease applying power off with a second to spare, but this runs the risk of down time with lag or a sudden need to do something else (taunt, use a cooldown ability, etc).
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Re: [DK] The DK Tanking thread

Postby Ballador » Thu Dec 03, 2009 12:35 pm

Levantine wrote:You should have waited until you got home. Now I'm going to troll you for being stupid and impatient when everything you asked for was in the post of mine you quoted.


Well Thanks Lev even though your reply was full of hate and sarcasm your original post did help :)
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Re: [DK] The DK Tanking thread

Postby discerpo » Thu Apr 01, 2010 10:03 am

so ive been UH for both DPS and tank spec but with my OS tank set stil a tier behind my HP is still a little low. i have never been anything but UH, but im thinking about going blood waht are the main points i need to know. i usually just try to "win the DPS race" while tanking and that seems to always work for threat lol but i havent tanked anything outside of 5 mans since mid ulduar.
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