[Holy-PvE] New to healing

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[Holy-PvE] New to healing

Postby vegardhv » Mon Apr 27, 2009 3:26 am

Hey

I picked up a ton of healing gear from naxx-10, and not a single dps gear, so decided to go second spec holy - well since people generally miss healers. But I've never healed ANYTHING before - and now I have gear that makes me able to heal ulduar (well not far from it anyway).

I tried healing VH hc (with a pug - because didn't want to let friends get huge repair bill), and the first boss Ichoron went smoothly (but the tank pushed one of those crystal things - never seen anyone do that in 20 runs). Second boss the ghost guy (where you're supposed to kill the mobs when you get that buff) - we wiped horribly - too much overall group damage. And I was kind of panicking there I must admit. It could have been because they didn't kill the mobs when they had the buff - hard to tell. Anyway, noone blaimed me, but everyone said they had to go after that and group disbanded :D

Any suggestions what I can do, where I can go to learn this trade without pissing people off. In tanking I took things stepwise - mostly with patient guild friends. Normal level 75-80 instances? Or should I get a group of friends - go heroics - and just tell them to be patient and bring a lot of spare coin?

thanks for any advice
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Re: [Holy-PvE] New to healing

Postby sherck » Mon Apr 27, 2009 12:10 pm

1. Glyph correctly. Holy Light, Seal of Wisdom and Divinity are my three major. Minor for Lay on Hands...others are optional.
2. Get an addon you are confortable with. I use Healbot but Clique/Grid are a fine option as well. Set up the spells however you need to to know where they are at a moments notice.
3. Talent correctly. The traditional 51/0/20 is fine.
4. In heroics and Naxx, keep Beacon up on the tank pretty much at all times. This way when you are healing around the group, the tank is also getting healed. The only time I don't keep Beacon up on the tank is in Naxx-25 when I am solo healing the Baron tank on Four Horsemen. THIS WILL CHANGE IN ULDUAR.
5. Learn to use Holy Light 75% of the time, Holy Shock 15% of the time and Flash of Light only if you have mana problems or someone really is not taking much damage. If you need to wait 1/2 a second so the DPS is down 8k instead of 4k so the Holy Light is not so much overhealing...do so. We have large health pools when compared to the AoE damage of heroics and Naxx.
6. Keep Sacred Shield up on the tank at all times.
7. Gem for Intellect. Enchant for Intellect. Eat food for Intellect. Sell sex for Intellect.
8. Gear for Intellect --> SP --> Crit --> Haste --> MP5 --> Stamina in that order
9. Get experience. If you have geared correctly and have the right tools (addons), you now need to apply it.

H VH can be tricky because there are a number of bosses that do pretty massive AoE damage and you need to be bombing Holy Light in quick succession. FoL will not do it....Holy Light all the way.

Cheers,
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Re: [Holy-PvE] New to healing

Postby vegardhv » Mon Apr 27, 2009 10:41 pm

Thanks, must appreciated.

Gee you make it sound so easy, once again I'll go in guns blazing ;)
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Re: [Holy-PvE] New to healing

Postby sherck » Tue Apr 28, 2009 5:37 am

Sorry, my reply above was when I was short on time.

Gearing is important to being a good healer. You must have the proper tools to do your job well. There is no "hard" stats for healers like Defense for tanks or Hit for DPS. Because of that, many people getting into healing just think if they stack some healing stats (Spell Power and Mana Pool being the two obvious ones) they are good to go. But you need to work on your gear and makes sure it does for you what you need it to do. If you follow that every piece of gear has Intellect, Spell Power and Crit on it, and you enchant/gem only for those stats, you are going a long way towards being properly geared.

Once you get geared/glyphs/enchanted/consumables/addons and all the like, the "science" of healing stops and the "artform" of healing begins.

There is no hard and fast guide to teach you how to be a healer. You cannot just push buttons in a certain order (96969) and know you will get max threat. You cannot just macro a spell oder and know you can push out max DPS. There are very few procs you get that you need to be aware of to take advantage of (that you yourself do not initiate). It is an artform, not a science.

A couple of general rules when healing 5 and 10 man groups:

1. The most important person to keep alive is the tank / OT. If the tank goes down, you will rarely defeat the boss unless they are at less than a couple of percentage points of health.

2. The second most important person to keep alive is yourself / other healers. If the tank can shield you from damage and you can keep their green health bar above zero, you can survive many, many encounters in this game.

3. DPS are not unimportant, just less important to a healer. Never have your tank die becuase you were healing a DPS. Never have yourself die because you were healing a DPS. DPS need to be kept up because you will not down many bosses without them. But they are never more important than your tank or yourself (even if they are the Guild Leader :D ).

4. You need to learn how big your various heals are and learn to NOT rely on Critical Strike heals. My FoL hits for around 4.5k. My Holy Shock hits for around 6k and my Holy Light for around 9.5-10.0k. Use the approprate heal in 5 mans but always lean towards "bigger is better." If you do get a Crit, all good things come from it (bigger heal, bigger Beacon splash, mana regen for you) but do not rely on it. Keep people alive using normal heals and the Crits are just bonus.

5. DO NOT CAST your first heal with an unknown tank until after they have done their AoE tanking move (Death & Decay, Consecrate, Shout, Swipe, etc). You will pull "healers" aggro on mobs that have not yet been struck and that will bring the mobs to you. A good tank will taunt them back but a bad tank... If you have Sacred Shield up on the tank which you should, they will be able to survive quite well for 4-5 seconds of the initial part of a pull without a heal. Once they get aggro, you should be able to go to town with heals because your threat coefficient is so low.

6. Use Lay on Hands often. It is now only on an 11 minute CD if you took both the Imp Lay on Hands talent (which you should), as well as the Glyph of Lay on Hands as well as the Glyph of Divinity. It is a 20k heal, it adds around 11-12k armor to the tank for 15 seconds, and will give you back 3,900 mana (about 17-20% of your mana pool). For most instances, that means you can use it for every boss fight.

7. As a plater wearer, you can take a hit or two but always be ready to put up Divine Shield if the tank is not getting the mob off you. It is only on a 5 minute CD so you can use it on every boss if needed. And inbetween if needed.

8. Clothies dies fast if targeted by melee/physical mobs due to lack of armor. You will probably need to learn to hit them quickly with a Holy Shock or FoL first and then follow it up with a Holy Light. You can also Righteous Defense them to get the mobs attacking you and then hope (yell in vent) for the tank to taunt them off you. You can also Blessing of Protection them. I have saved many a DPS' life with RD, BoP, Blessing of Sacrifice, or Hand of Reckoning and then getting the tank to pick up aggro again. Sometimes you only need a second or two.

9. Remember than you have a stun as well. Can buy you a couple of good seconds.

I solo/quest as Holy so all of my "combat" abilites are set to my number keys (1,2,3, 4, etc). I cast all of my healing spells and spells I cast on other players (with the exception of Blessings = Pally Power) though Healbot to include Righteous Defense. That way I have access to all of my "combat" skills when healing....heals through Healbot, combat through number keys.

For example, on Thaddius in Naxx, I keep up a full DPS rotation through the keys while occassionally doing a heal through Healbot during a charge switch. You don't want to "waste" your DPS cooldowns during a charge switch until everyone gets there and you have maximim damage boost so that is when you heal.

If I switched my 1,2,3,4 keys to healing spells when "healing," then I would not have quick access to my combat abilitys like Judgement (for the 15% Haste), or damage dealing or stuns, etc. That is one of the many reasons I like Healbot.

10. Experience can only be gained by doing. Pick a couple of the easier instances, UK, Gundrak, DTK where much of the damage is physical and your tank's armor can help you the most and just run them. Lean towards using Holy Light more than less until you learn what the approrpiate amount of incoming damage is. Heal often, heal early and overheal like crazy until you get comfortable. There is not subustitude for experience.

Once you join a 25-man raid, your job SHOULD change greatly. You need to ask for a healing assignment and then do your best job to keep that person / group alive. Paladins SUCK at general raid healing and you should not be asked to do that in 25-mans. If the Raid Leader refuses to give out healing assignments ("come on, it's just Naxx. Heal anyone hurt...") then pick out the Main Tank and an Off Tank and keep them as well as yourself alive and focus on that. Don't care what the healing meters say, as long as your targets stay alive, you did your job.

In Ulduar, force your Raid Leaders to give out healing assignments. There is not little time / mana in there to have multiple healers healing raid members sniping each other heals.

Ask for any more specifics.

Cheers,
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Re: [Holy-PvE] New to healing

Postby amh » Tue Apr 28, 2009 6:07 am

sherck, you are a monster

(nice break-down!)
I used to play a paladin.
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Re: [Holy-PvE] New to healing

Postby Elsie » Tue Apr 28, 2009 10:08 am

4. In heroics and Naxx, keep Beacon up on the tank pretty much at all times. This way when you are healing around the group, the tank is also getting healed. The only time I don't keep Beacon up on the tank is in Naxx-25 when I am solo healing the Baron tank on Four Horsemen. THIS WILL CHANGE IN ULDUAR.

I'll add that in some cases beacon is best used on yourself. In reality, while we say "tank" it really just means "whoever you are assigned to heal, or yourself in some cases."

6. Use Lay on Hands often. It is now only on an 11 minute CD if you took both the Imp Lay on Hands talent (which you should), as well as the Glyph of Lay on Hands as well as the Glyph of Divinity. It is a 20k heal, it adds around 11-12k armor to the tank for 15 seconds, and will give you back 3,900 mana (about 17-20% of your mana pool). For most instances, that means you can use it for every boss fight.

7. As a plater wearer, you can take a hit or two but always be ready to put up Divine Shield if the tank is not getting the mob off you. It is only on a 5 minute CD so you can use it on every boss if needed. And inbetween if needed.

8. Clothies dies fast if targeted by melee/physical mobs due to lack of armor. You will probably need to learn to hit them quickly with a Holy Shock or FoL first and then follow it up with a Holy Light. You can also Righteous Defense them to get the mobs attacking you and then hope (yell in vent) for the tank to taunt them off you. You can also Blessing of Protection them. I have saved many a DPS' life with RD, BoP, Blessing of Sacrifice, or Hand of Reckoning and then getting the tank to pick up aggro again. Sometimes you only need a second or two.

6. In the same spirit, do not forget Avenging Wrath's +20% healing done.

7. In the same spirit, do not forget about Divine Protection and BoP.

8. In general, Never taunt off anyone in a raid. Since 3.1, you stand a very real chance of causing taunt immunity from "diminishing returns" they added on taunt - especially if someone has the same 'best intentions' as you. Instead, you should rely on Hand of Sacrifice, Divine Sacrifice, and Divine Intervention (with a soulstone) if necessary. Depending on who has aggro from what, you can sometimes keep someone alive with a quick Divine Favor + holy shock -> sacred shield -> FoL, where holy shock heals the person and FoL will auto-crit. This does require a high degree of awareness on something that generally isn't your focus, though.

Another trick, if someone has aggro as in #8, you can use Hand of Salvation on them. If a ranged DPS or Healer has aggro, this will generally bump them down low enough in threat to where the mob bounces to another target. You're essentially buying the tanks valuable time to find the mob and taunt since all taunts are 20-40 yards now. This isn't terribly useful on melee since either they (a) are plate or feral druids and can take a hit or two (b) have some quick-escape like vanish or (c) are already dead like enhancement shamans. Also melee aggro pulls are much easier for tanks to respond to.

Lastly I'll add:
Tips and Tricks That Are Not 80% of What You'll be doing.
1. Use Hand of Salvation frequently.
You will want to especially at the beginning or end of 'lulls' in a fight as it increases the raid's DPS. Most DPS who can pull threat have an aggro drop, but this comes at a cost of GCDs, CDs, and/or other resources.
-Mages, and to much a lesser degree hunters, lose a lot of DPS with their threat loss abilities.
-Warlocks are threat monkies, and their soul shatter only reduces their threat by 50%.
-Warrior, Shadow Priest, Death Knights, and Shamans can all possibly pull aggro and have no way of permenantly reducing their own. Mostly shadow priests.
-Try to avoid using this at the start of a fight as it reduces Total Threat, not TPS or threat output.

2. On some fights, utility > mana efficiency.
If you have no interest in pvp, then a second dual spec option with prot as your subspec is quite potent for some encounters.
-Divine Sacrifice has been known to save raids.
--Divine Sacrifice can be used with Divine Shield, but also Divine Protection works when the AoE is physical (XT001, rasuvious).
-Damage prevention will stop a bad scenario from happening, which is why +20% Sacred Shield is handy
-Glyph of Salvation works well on encounters with high single target damage to a random or semi-random raid member such as Ignis.
-Glyph of Salvation works well on off-tanks if you coordinate well with them before the fight.

3. Don't be afraid to Hand of Sacrifice the tank (or damage-taking target)
-Combine with Divine sacrifice and Divine Shield for maximum effectiveness.
-If you Beacon yourself, the net damage you receive is basically 0 since you'll be fully healed by default.


Basically, holy paladin has as much depth as you add to it. At a base level, you only really need to spam holy light and cleanse. At a basic level, you throw in flash of light and holy shock. If you're playing to maximize the effectiveness of your character there are many tools available that make you a very strong member of any raid.
Last edited by Elsie on Tue Apr 28, 2009 11:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [Holy-PvE] New to healing

Postby Meliora » Tue Apr 28, 2009 10:54 am

Very nice write up :)
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Re: [Holy-PvE] New to healing

Postby majiben » Tue Apr 28, 2009 11:05 am

You mean HoP not DP on your second way of preventing Physical damage. EJ has been reporting that DP does nothing concerning reducing DSac damage, nor does any other damage reduction, only full immunities work.
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Re: [Holy-PvE] New to healing

Postby Elsie » Tue Apr 28, 2009 11:31 am

Majiben wrote:You mean HoP not DP on your second way of preventing Physical damage. EJ has been reporting that DP does nothing concerning reducing DSac damage, nor does any other damage reduction, only full immunities work.

Hum, must not have noticed. Just never felt significant to me. Probably my own damage was reduced so the extra damage didn't feel signficant.
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Re: [Holy-PvE] New to healing

Postby Spectrum » Tue Apr 28, 2009 12:03 pm

Wow, I just started being a serious healer as an off-spec. I wouldn't have bothered if it weren't for dual-specs and that full holy set sitting in my bank I'd never worn.

What I realized reading this is how many tools we have that I wasn't even thinking about. I was too busy getting used to my main heals. I had forgotten about HoP, HoSalv, and even bubbling myself. I need to get some heroic practice or the like and work on getting comfortable with healing.

It's all about getting comfortable with your main buttons so you can start thinking about how to use your other ones.
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Re: [Holy-PvE] New to healing

Postby aleyona » Tue Apr 28, 2009 12:57 pm

Sherck had an excellent run-down of the basics of healing. I've also been building a holy set myself and am going to be healing Ulduar soon... tonight actually. While learning my way into healing, I've discovered a few things that are pretty important too. Mind you, most of this is off the top of my head so some things might be a little off (though I'm fairly confident in it).

Gear -

Intellect --> SP --> Crit --> Haste --> MP5 --> Stamina
- This is a pretty good idea to follow, although I would actually put crit above SP until you reach around 30% holy crit. If you're dealing with 10-man naxx gear this shouldn't be an issue and following the above will still set you right.
- Gemming - For Red sockets, I'm using the 9sp/8int gems - for yellow 16 int - for blue 9sp/8mp5 (well, I'm a JC so I use 27 int) - If the socket bonus is crit/spellpower/intellect, go for it - if it's haste, just drop a 16 int gem into it. Most socket bonuses are worthwhile on healing gear I think.
- Set bonuses - Our 4pc T7 set bonus is phenomenal (Holy light costs 15% less), and getting 4 pieces is more than worth it.
- Meta - A lotta people say 2% mana is amazing... but at 1k intellect you have around 20k mana, which means 400 extra mana. Chance on spellcast gives you 600 mana. By the time you blow through 20k mana, you WILL have proc'd it. So, mana efficiency wise, restore mana on spellcast is better.

Actually healing
- HS/FoL combo - This can be your bread and butter saving grace if you know how to watch for it. This right here is how you save your entire party in a 5-man dungeon from certain death. I forget where, but I saw an amazing explanation of how to fix an 'oh ****' situation quickly. Below is a quick explanation:
[list=how to save your party]
[*]Ensure beacon of Light is on the tank
[*]Bubble yourself (dead healer = no healer)
[*]Divine Favor (next spell crits)
[*]Holy shock on your best DPS (Crit means instant Flash of Light, guaranteed crit) - 8k dps1 / 8k tank
[*]Flash of Light on next best DPS (instant, and guaranteed crit) - 5k dps2 / 8kdps1 / 13k tank
[*]Holy Light on last dps (hoping he'll survive) - 10k dps3 / 5k dps2 / 8kdps1 / 23k tank
[*]Holy light on yourself, after standing near another dps (preferably 2) - 10k you / 10k dps3 / 6k dps2 / 8k dps1 / 33k tank
[/list]
- An alternate option is tossing Lay on Hands on the 3rd DPS if you have that cooldown available. The benefit to this is - by the time you get into this situation you probably need the mana anyways, and LoH is instant versus a 1.8 seconds cast (that's my current holy light after holy light speed increase proc and judgement haste - it might be 1.6 hmmmm).
- Healing is something that is more of an art-form than mathematical superiority, but knowing proven methods certainly does help you out.
- Practice healing. I have noticed a significant difference in my ability to heal since I started doing so on a regular basis. It's just like tanking and knowing when to blow cooldowns and when to have faith in your healers.

Mana conservation
- Judgement of Light - super huge healing ability.
- Divine Plea - This spell is best used AFTER you've just healed something major. Reasoning behind this is simple - while you're healing a major issues you can't afford the GCD to waste on divine plea, AND if poop is being flung into the rotary devices then you also can't afford the 20% reduced healing. I also like to start fights out like this so I can get back all my prep mana - and it will be available by the time I need to refresh everything (it's amazing how it's on the same cooldown as beacon of light is).
- Sacred Shield - As stated before this is something you absolutely want to keep up on tanks. Having this reduce damage is a huge advantage - plus crits on flash of light for when you're just spamming that because nobody's taking a lotta damage.
- Intellect - More mana = less worry about conservation, divine plea gives you more.
- Seal of Wisdom - W/glyph = less overall cost, more back from crits

that's all for now - quick post, and I'm leaving work in like 2 seconds.
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Re: [Holy-PvE] New to healing

Postby Kelaan » Tue Apr 28, 2009 2:02 pm

For situations like X-002(25), where I'm pretty much tasked with nonstop HL spam on the tank, how can I avoid going OOM? :-( I've tried canceling casts, but it always seems like I have a HL in-process when the tank takes 2-3 Really Big Hits and dies. :(
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Re: [Holy-PvE] New to healing

Postby aleyona » Tue Apr 28, 2009 4:38 pm

Kelaan wrote:For situations like X-002(25), where I'm pretty much tasked with nonstop HL spam on the tank, how can I avoid going OOM? :-( I've tried canceling casts, but it always seems like I have a HL in-process when the tank takes 2-3 Really Big Hits and dies. :(


Get better gear. There is no way that you can sit there and spam holy light for hours on end. It doesn't happen. This is where you need to be smart about it. If the tank takes a few big, cancel your HL, and HS him. Then cast your HL and bask in your 20% extra crit (assuming your HS crit). Less mana than HLx2, and can sometimes heal for more.

Make sure your sacred shield is on him (or another paladins is). If the tank is taking 2-3 big hits, you're talking a 3-4 second time-frame. If you're spamming FoL instead of HL then you're going to last a long longer and be just as effective.

Remember another thing, you should have multiple healers. This means you should have a resto druid rolling 3x lifebloom stacks on him. Combined with FoL spam at ~4k a pop (fluctuates between 3k and 5k for most) you're easily talking 6-7k HPS. Throw in sacred shield / judgement of light / off-healers (renew, earth shield), and there's no excuse for your tank dying.
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Re: [Holy-PvE] New to healing

Postby majiben » Tue Apr 28, 2009 7:27 pm

Pop DP when he exposes his heart and Melee with SoW.
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Re: [Holy-PvE] New to healing

Postby Kelaan » Tue Apr 28, 2009 8:13 pm

aleyona wrote:Make sure your sacred shield is on him (or another paladins is). If the tank is taking 2-3 big hits, you're talking a 3-4 second time-frame. If you're spamming FoL instead of HL then you're going to last a long longer and be just as effective.

Were I not on boss healing, I'd agree, but ... how can FoL be effective when the tank is taking 16k hits? {edit: Our tank healers were me and a holy priest. I believe that the other healers were snipin' heals in the meantime to stay un-bored, but that shouldnt have any effect.}

Majiben wrote:Pop DP when he exposes his heart and Melee with SoW.

Interesting idea. I'll try that. I"m also going to try bubble + HoSac as the tantrum ends, as I think our other healers are busy healing the raid in that time frame.
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